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usf87

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I read with interest the "Annual Plea for Football at SLU" threads posted on this message board. I believe it's time to resurrect the topic, but with renewed vigor this time.

I graduated from a small school in Indiana (U of Saint Francis, NAIA), and played some soccer there. We didn't have football at the time and basketball was untouchable. As a student I (and fellow classmates) often wished we had a football program. The president we had during my collegiate years was a stodgy old nun (think Fr. Biondi) who was satisfied with the status quo and didn't do anything to promote the school. The school atmosphere was stagnant, kids would go home on weekends and there was nothing to do on campus besides shooting pool and playing ping-pong at the student center.

The school enrollment had plunged to an all-time low of appx 600 students (full and part-time, undergrad and grad), to the point that there was talk of closing the school down. This was in the early 80s. In 1990 a successor was appointed as new president - another nun. She was younger, dynamic, progressive, forward thinking and open minded. She was also a graduate of Saint Francis, having spent the 70s living in the dorms while she prepared for her novitiate. Ironically she received her PhD from SLU. In '97 one of the administrators suggested we start a football program. He wasn't exactly laughed out of the room, but the suggestion wasn't taken seriously. He was insistent and tried several more times. The local media got on the band wagon, saying they wouldn't even have 50 spectators come to a game, let alone field a successful program. Finally, the president resigned to the idea and gave her blessing to start a football program.

They hired a head coach by the name of Kevin Donley (currently the winningest active coach in NAIA football) to start a football program from scratch. He had nothing, no lockers, facilities, field, players, staff - nothing. The closest thing resembling a field was the existing grass soccer field. After hiring a staff they recruited some players. Mostly local kids who wanted to continue playing football at the collegiate level but were considered too small by NCAA DIII and D2, let alone D1 programs. They had one thing most players at the upper divisions lacked - heart. They played their first varsity football game at Saint Xavier University in Chicago - and beat them 56-28. They lost seven consecutive after that, and ended with a 2-8 record. Dismal, but it was expected of an inaugural program. More of the same was to be expected the following years. Except…the next year, and only one year into the program, they finished with an 8-3 record, received votes in the national rankings, won their conference and played in the NAIA tournament. Since that inaugural year they have not had another losing season. They won 10 consecutive conference titles, played in consecutive national tournaments, finished as runners-up three years in a row in the title games, and as of 2013, won yet another conference title and advanced as far as the quarterfinals. They routinely accept and start transfer student-athletes from D1 programs like Ball State, Purdue, Indiana State, Indiana, and the like. All these kids have an impact right off the bat and contribute to a winning tradition. Not just the transfers, but the legitimate first-year starters and red-shirts. They're hungry and want to play - and win. They beat bigger programs like Indiana State, Valpo and Butler. Butler won't schedule them anymore because they got tired of getting whipped year in and year out.

What they built for themselves was commitment to, and the belief in themselves and the program. Now Saint Francis boasts a student enrollment of over 2,000, opened a satellite campus near Chicago, has a strong alumni following, has built - or in the process of building - new dorms and additional facilities on campus, and home football games are well-attended, with standing-room-only on homecoming games. All thanks in large part to a football program no one believed in. They have respectability, clout, media exposure and kids wanting to attend Saint Francis.

Yes, I know SLU is D1, not NAIA. Yes, I know money is handled differently in NCAA than NAIA - but not much. Only the venues are bigger.

There is a changing of the guard. Biondi is on his way out, and the search for a new president is currently taking place. The search committee has reached out to the university community and asked what qualities we should be looking for in our new president. Emails, surveys and town-hall style meetings took place and opinions gathered. One of the requirements for the new president is belief in SLU athletic programs and the commitment to further those programs.

I've personally taken informal surveys around campus and asked students, staff and faculty what they thought of bringing football back to SLU. All would like to see it, and all expressed concerns that we would s**ck. Yes, I agree. We would s**ck our first year or so. It all depends on the head coach and staff in place. The commitment and belief in themselves and the program. And the president's blessing. When I asked one of my colleagues about football here at SLU she told me about a meeting she attended with Fr. Biondi and one of them asked about bringing back the football program. His response: "Over my dead body." With that attitude it's no wonder he got a no-confidence vote and on his way out. We need a president that is open-minded and open for debate.

Football is expensive, agreed. But you need to spend money to make money. It's also a powerful recruiting and marketing tool. More alumni would come back to SLU and attend a homecoming football game. And donate. Who goes to a homecoming where soccer is the featured sport? I've looked across campus and practically every piece of structure, be it a building, conference room, office, park bench, statue, sculpture, classroom, tree, has a plaque dedicated to its generous donor. There are willing donors out there. They want to give to SLU. So why not football?

And it's not just the SLU community that would benefit from the football program. It's also the city of St. Louis: home games translate to visitors, hotel reservations, restaurant goers, museum and theater goers, potential students wanting to attend SLU, whether as a student or a participating student-athlete. Should we turn down their money?

What about facilities? I've taken the liberty of sharing these links:

Georgetown College (NAIA)
http://www.georgetowncollegeathletics.com/f/Facilities.php
Field-turf, seating capacity 5,000, expandable to 20,000

University of Saint Francis (NAIA)
http://saintfranciscougars.com/sports/2011/12/8/AT_1208111150.aspx?&tab=2
Sport-turf, seating capacity 3,000, expandable to appx 12,000
Saint Francis has a small campus, and is landlocked - surrounded by neighborhoods on 3 sides and a cemetery on the south side.

Lindenwood University (D2, formerly NAIA)
http://www.lindenwoodlions.com/sports/2012/6/21/FB_0621125209.aspx
Astro Play turf, seating capacity ?

Also consider Fawcett Stadium, NFL's Hall of Fame stadium, also has a small footprint
http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/fawcett_stadium.aspx

They all take up the same footprint as Hermann Stadium and/or the Medical Center Stadium. Start out small, but design the stadium to be expandable. Start out in the FCS with the intent of joining the FBS at a future date. Look at schools like Troy, AL (former NAIA), UConn, Boise State, USF (S. Florida) - they all started in the "lesser" divisions and are now competing in the FBS.

One final note: there's a small school in Oklahoma - University of Tulsa - a small, nondenominational, private school founded by Presbyterians. Total student enrollment is less than 5,000 with a much smaller endowment than SLU. They have a successful FBS football program, and recently beat Notre Dame.

If I may quote Coach Donley on his foundation to build the football program at Saint Francis:

"To develop quality young men into meaningful contributors to our community and to win some games along the way."
-Kevin Donley

SLU can compete - and will.

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I read with interest the "Annual Plea for Football at SLU" threads posted on this message board. I believe it's time to resurrect the topic, but with renewed vigor this time.

I graduated from a small school in Indiana (U of Saint Francis, NAIA), and played some soccer there. We didn't have football at the time and basketball was untouchable. As a student I (and fellow classmates) often wished we had a football program. The president we had during my collegiate years was a stodgy old nun (think Fr. Biondi) who was satisfied with the status quo and didn't do anything to promote the school. The school atmosphere was stagnant, kids would go home on weekends and there was nothing to do on campus besides shooting pool and playing ping-pong at the student center.

The school enrollment had plunged to an all-time low of appx 600 students (full and part-time, undergrad and grad), to the point that there was talk of closing the school down. This was in the early 80s. In 1990 a successor was appointed as new president - another nun. She was younger, dynamic, progressive, forward thinking and open minded. She was also a graduate of Saint Francis, having spent the 70s living in the dorms while she prepared for her novitiate. Ironically she received her PhD from SLU. In '97 one of the administrators suggested we start a football program. He wasn't exactly laughed out of the room, but the suggestion wasn't taken seriously. He was insistent and tried several more times. The local media got on the band wagon, saying they wouldn't even have 50 spectators come to a game, let alone field a successful program. Finally, the president resigned to the idea and gave her blessing to start a football program.

They hired a head coach by the name of Kevin Donley (currently the winningest active coach in NAIA football) to start a football program from scratch. He had nothing, no lockers, facilities, field, players, staff - nothing. The closest thing resembling a field was the existing grass soccer field. After hiring a staff they recruited some players. Mostly local kids who wanted to continue playing football at the collegiate level but were considered too small by NCAA DIII and D2, let alone D1 programs. They had one thing most players at the upper divisions lacked - heart. They played their first varsity football game at Saint Xavier University in Chicago - and beat them 56-28. They lost seven consecutive after that, and ended with a 2-8 record. Dismal, but it was expected of an inaugural program. More of the same was to be expected the following years. Except…the next year, and only one year into the program, they finished with an 8-3 record, received votes in the national rankings, won their conference and played in the NAIA tournament. Since that inaugural year they have not had another losing season. They won 10 consecutive conference titles, played in consecutive national tournaments, finished as runners-up three years in a row in the title games, and as of 2013, won yet another conference title and advanced as far as the quarterfinals. They routinely accept and start transfer student-athletes from D1 programs like Ball State, Purdue, Indiana State, Indiana, and the like. All these kids have an impact right off the bat and contribute to a winning tradition. Not just the transfers, but the legitimate first-year starters and red-shirts. They're hungry and want to play - and win. They beat bigger programs like Indiana State, Valpo and Butler. Butler won't schedule them anymore because they got tired of getting whipped year in and year out.

What they built for themselves was commitment to, and the belief in themselves and the program. Now Saint Francis boasts a student enrollment of over 2,000, opened a satellite campus near Chicago, has a strong alumni following, has built - or in the process of building - new dorms and additional facilities on campus, and home football games are well-attended, with standing-room-only on homecoming games. All thanks in large part to a football program no one believed in. They have respectability, clout, media exposure and kids wanting to attend Saint Francis.

Yes, I know SLU is D1, not NAIA. Yes, I know money is handled differently in NCAA than NAIA - but not much. Only the venues are bigger.

There is a changing of the guard. Biondi is on his way out, and the search for a new president is currently taking place. The search committee has reached out to the university community and asked what qualities we should be looking for in our new president. Emails, surveys and town-hall style meetings took place and opinions gathered. One of the requirements for the new president is belief in SLU athletic programs and the commitment to further those programs.

I've personally taken informal surveys around campus and asked students, staff and faculty what they thought of bringing football back to SLU. All would like to see it, and all expressed concerns that we would s**ck. Yes, I agree. We would s**ck our first year or so. It all depends on the head coach and staff in place. The commitment and belief in themselves and the program. And the president's blessing. When I asked one of my colleagues about football here at SLU she told me about a meeting she attended with Fr. Biondi and one of them asked about bringing back the football program. His response: "Over my dead body." With that attitude it's no wonder he got a no-confidence vote and on his way out. We need a president that is open-minded and open for debate.

Football is expensive, agreed. But you need to spend money to make money. It's also a powerful recruiting and marketing tool. More alumni would come back to SLU and attend a homecoming football game. And donate. Who goes to a homecoming where soccer is the featured sport? I've looked across campus and practically every piece of structure, be it a building, conference room, office, park bench, statue, sculpture, classroom, tree, has a plaque dedicated to its generous donor. There are willing donors out there. They want to give to SLU. So why not football?

And it's not just the SLU community that would benefit from the football program. It's also the city of St. Louis: home games translate to visitors, hotel reservations, restaurant goers, museum and theater goers, potential students wanting to attend SLU, whether as a student or a participating student-athlete. Should we turn down their money?

What about facilities? I've taken the liberty of sharing these links:

Georgetown College (NAIA)

http://www.georgetowncollegeathletics.com/f/Facilities.php

Field-turf, seating capacity 5,000, expandable to 20,000

University of Saint Francis (NAIA)

http://saintfranciscougars.com/sports/2011/12/8/AT_1208111150.aspx?&tab=2

Sport-turf, seating capacity 3,000, expandable to appx 12,000

Saint Francis has a small campus, and is landlocked - surrounded by neighborhoods on 3 sides and a cemetery on the south side.

Lindenwood University (D2, formerly NAIA)

http://www.lindenwoodlions.com/sports/2012/6/21/FB_0621125209.aspx

Astro Play turf, seating capacity ?

Also consider Fawcett Stadium, NFL's Hall of Fame stadium, also has a small footprint

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/fawcett_stadium.aspx

They all take up the same footprint as Hermann Stadium and/or the Medical Center Stadium. Start out small, but design the stadium to be expandable. Start out in the FCS with the intent of joining the FBS at a future date. Look at schools like Troy, AL (former NAIA), UConn, Boise State, USF (S. Florida) - they all started in the "lesser" divisions and are now competing in the FBS.

One final note: there's a small school in Oklahoma - University of Tulsa - a small, nondenominational, private school founded by Presbyterians. Total student enrollment is less than 5,000 with a much smaller endowment than SLU. They have a successful FBS football program, and recently beat Notre Dame.

If I may quote Coach Donley on his foundation to build the football program at Saint Francis:

"To develop quality young men into meaningful contributors to our community and to win some games along the way."

-Kevin Donley

SLU can compete - and will.

Can you please PM me when you have posted the Cliffsnotes version?

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Yours truly, Bay Area Billiken, continues to support the resumption of SLU Football, as does at least 1 other alumnus in my inner circle.

If Fordham can have Football (12-2, nationally ranked in '13), then SLU can have Football, and FCS scholarship football like Fordham, not just Pioneer League non-scholarship level. Fordham just had a highly successful football season.

Fordham used to be non-scholarship, but is now an FCS scholarship program. After being shunned initially by the Patriot League for giving football scholarships, at least some others in the Patriot League are now going the scholarship route.

And I agree, start FCS with the goal of eventually being FBS. There is thought that Fordham, a long ago football power (Vince Lombardi was one of the Seven Blocks of Granite) is following the Boston College model. There is room out there for more than 2 Catholic university full D-1 FBS football programs.

Other schools are able to deal with Title IX. There are multiple models to follow, starting with Fordham, a fellow Jesuit school.

Fordham Basketball has been an A10 anchor weight. But Fordham Hoops is improving, with a much more respectable RPI of 101, albeit still with room for more improvement.

As I've said before, having been to 3 football games at Fordham, we are missing out at SLU by not having Football.

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Ironically, yours truly spent some time in the archives last night looking into SLU Football on this website: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/saint-louis/1949.html.

While I don't know yet if any years are missing, this website indicates that SLU fielded football teams in 1907-08, and each year from 1932-1942, and again from 1945-1949.

You might be surprised to learn that SLU's overall record during those years was 82-78-13. During those years SLU was 4-7 vs. Missouri and 7-4-1 against arch-rival Washington University in St. Louis.

That 1907 SLU team was 7-3, with interesting scores, including: SLU 78 Wash U 0 and SLU 34 Nebraska (as in the Cornhuskers) 0.

The 1937 SLU team was 7-2-1, and defeated Mizzou 14-7.

SLU actually won 4 out of 5 on the Gridiron over Mizzou between 1932 and 1937.

No kidding.

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TITLE IX. End of discussion.

Title IX does not prohibit adding men's sports. Adding football would improve SLU's gender equity by enrolling more male students to a campus which is now disproportionately female (41% male vs 59% female, based on SLU university profile collected in 2012). As long as another women's sport is added to balance the equation. SLU currently has 8 men's sports, the women's has 9. How does Title IX come into play here?

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no football. 75 less potential rapists on campus

So you're saying top-notch schools like Georgetown, Holy Cross, Fordham, Old Dominion, WashU, Harvard, Yale, Princeton (I could go on…) have all knowingly or unknowingly introduced 75 rapists on each of their campuses? You're saying that 75% of any football team (assuming a 100-member roster) are all rapists?

You're thinking of Florida State and other major state schools who routinely recruit convicts to play for their program and give them a free education that have no business playing football or attending whichever institution they happen to play for. They're off the streets for four years before resuming their life of crime, since we know they have no marketable skills other than being physical. You're saying this applies to SLU?

There's already been a case of rape on campus (or attempted rape) - no football. What's your point?

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At least the number of people wanting to see football return to SLU has grown to include:

Me

WestCoastBilliken

USF87

At this rate, we should have a program in 500 years or so.

Thanks, Box. I knew going in that this wasn't the venue for this post, but a colleague suggested I try the forums to test the waters, so to speak. They should have called this site billikensmensbasketballonly.com.

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Title IX does not prohibit adding men's sports. Adding football would improve SLU's gender equity by enrolling more male students to a campus which is now disproportionately female (41% male vs 59% female, based on SLU university profile collected in 2012). As long as another women's sport is added to balance the equation. SLU currently has 8 men's sports, the women's has 9. How does Title IX come into play here?

It's not number of sports, it's number of scholarships.

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SLU will never have football again unless one of the posters on this board becomes a billionaire. It could happen but unlikely.

Not only would SLU have to pay for all the expenses of a football program they would also have add 3 or 4 womens sports to offset Title IX, unless they went no scholarship, which I think i this market with several D-2 and NAIA programs in the area it would be difficult to attract quality players.

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I believe Title IX issues can be avoided by fielding a non-scholarship program, a la Dayton, Butler, Drake, and the other programs in the Pioneer League.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Football_League

Even if we used the non-scholarship model set by the schools above, would it really result in something that people would want to watch? It seems that Dayton and Butler draw around 3,000 fans, give or take 500, for an average or above average game. I think the highest total I saw from those schools was one Dayton game at 5,000. For a less intriguing opponent, Butler draws between 1,500-2,000.

Would that kind of attendance be acceptable to you? I've heard people say that it would be cool to have a football team at SLU, but I really don't see a D1-AA program with no scholarships being able to sustain enthusiasm once the original novelty wears off. Our basketball team is D-1 and has generally played pretty good competition, but the average SLU student doesn't come to SLU to go to sporting events, and they only go to games if they think it is the cool thing to do.

I really think that if SLU had a football team at the D1-AA level, competing at the level of Dayton and Butler, you'd get some students and other fans to come at first just out of a novelty. Shortly after though, you'd get students going to a tailgate (assuming they existed and weren't bad) and then heading back to their dorms or apartments to watch whatever major college football team they root for on TV.

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So hey, this is fun, and I'm drunk, and I don't pretend to have all the answers so let's throw this around objectively... Also, this is really long, scroll to the bottom for my summary.

1) To bring up the resurrection (Catholic pun INTENDED) of SLU football during basketball season is a little bit misguided, especially on this board... Dude, you had all of the off season, where were you with your six posts then? This board STRUGGLES for out of basketball season topics, come correct during the summer.

2) Second, I actually think it's notable you brought examples into this argument for the first time, most people just throw the topic out there and get destroyed, it should be noted you actually thought about what you were saying before you said it.

3) This isn't about football, its about money so now let's actually begin to talk about SLU football.... Oh, man, get the Nelly playlist goin.. I'm feeling good bout this buzz... What a win over ISU...

ANYWAYS: Football at SLU seems like a notable endeavor because A) It currently seems that the American populace cannot get enough of football and B) it seems that there is major money to be made in American football programs for Colleges and University. There are things that stand in the way though.

-First and foremost: Football is without a doubt the most expensive college sport to field. Let's even forget about scholarships. The equipment and facilities necessary to field a modern football program are astronomical. The size of teams largely increases this cost. 50+ players on the roster that require multiple unique pieces of equipment. Not to mention sports specific training materials.. Sleds, balls, those useless kicking nets that soccer can't share... All that is a massive cost.

-But Prebilliken, you'e in sales, you know the costs are outweighed by profit... Yeah, no. The vast majority of college football programs, at every level, incur a debt just to operate. Like I said, I am way to drunk to go grab you figures, but you would be floored by the red that most programs operate in. In fact, if most power six conferences weren't involved in TV Profit Sharing deals within their conference then they would operate in the red.

-Oh man! Did I mention the cost of those astronomical coaching staffs? Head coach, offensive coordinator, definitive coordinator, o-line coach, d-line coach, o-line assistant coach, o-line assistant coach assistant, assistant to the assistant of the water boy...

And let's talk about those facilities: Hermann Stadium is a gem of a college soccer field, I would have said the best in the nation until those a$$holes at creighton built their new facility. BUT, its built for soccer. Not football. To make it a feasible multi-sport stadium you would need at least a year of non-use during construction to convert it. Remember what I said about costs? Also, that would mean that while you were converting Hermann, the SLU soccer team would be playing their games out a that soccer complex by the old factory in STL county I can't remember the name of... So there goes your soccer crowd for that year... And your recruiting class for that year. Also, in order to have two fall sports play at that stadium, the Herman field would need to be converted to field turf, rather than natural grass in order to sustain the raised traffic on the field... Have you ever played soccer on field turf? Its not good. So your considering deterring one of SLU's flagship programs in order to try and start up a new one.

So then let's say we play at the Edwards Jones Dome instead of Hermann... Well that's a possibility. But let's get used to playing in front of a crowd that is 45-75% empty at all times. At that attendance rate we would be lucky if we broke even on our rental deal with the dome...

Also, have you considered the market we are operating in? Listen, I love the Rams, but STL has a hard time getting pumped to go see them play. Mizzou football fans are mostly apathetic unless they are having a PHENOMENAL season (this season) and have you ever met an Illini football fan? Neither have I. I can't say the demand for football is off the charts in the STL area. I feel like a D-1 FCS football team would be white noise in this town. And I'm not even saying that is a bad thing. In fact, you bring up all these programs that resurrected football, most of these programs exist where there is a demand for football... Or a respectable college programs at all.

To wrap it up: Football would incur a major debt to the University and I'm not sure if would break even, unless there is some donor out there that is willing to fund this whole thing. I would much rather the University grow its athletic programs in sports that meet a demand more feasible to our market: mainly Lacrosse and Hockey. I would literally take human life to watch Bills D1 Hockey at the 'Fetz. I mean seriously, an innocent person I don't know.. WE USED TO HAVE HOCKEY. WHERE IS MY HOCKEY?

But hey, usf87, let's break even on this, I like your school spirit. I like it a lot. After all, SLU invented the forward pass and has a weird amount of football history. If you ARE or know of an eccentric donor who wants to bring football back at SLU, and you have nothing more than a bankroll and a prayer, I will quit my job (in the sales division of the second largest movie studio in the world) and take a pay cut to work in bringing SLU football back. Why not??

I'm not infallible.

PS- Have you guys heard the song "Clarity"? My God that is a great song... Its played at least five times while typing this. Speaking of Pop Music, HEY PISTOL how do you feel about that new Pitbull song? "Timber" That song is fire. Ke$ha is fire. It should be a Bills anthem.

Too Long? Didn't Read? I'm hammered. Football is expensive. I will take a pay cut and work for usf87 if he wants to bankroll SLU football. OH YEAH, WHERE IS BILLS HOCKEY.

POST OF THE YEAR.

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I would like to see the Armory located just South of 64/40 become a SLU football stadium. Have it seat 4,000 and room to expand if it becomes a scholarship sport decades later.

http://stlexplorer.wordpress.com/2010/02/21/the-armory/

I doubt it would happen, but that would be pretty awesome. A different (I think) Armory hosted SLU basketball games in the 1920s.

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One objection is about how Football will displace the SLU Soccer team. First, it will not. Using the Fordham model, Fordham fields teams in both Football and Men's Soccer. Second, that is a SLU Soccer team with 10 National Championhips, but none since the early 1970's, and one that has been drawing fans in the three (3) figures, as in the hundreds, for many games.

A SLU Football team could play at Busch Stadium or the Edward Jones Dome. Or as noted above, the Medical School field could be upgraded during the early stages. Hermann Stadium need not even be touched for SLU Football, and could be maintained for SLU Soccer. This is the art of compromise.

Next are the usual objections about Title IX and costs. In answer, no one can explain how Fordham can have FCS Scholarship Football and SLU cannot. No one can explain how Georgetown can have FCS non-scholarship Football and SLU cannot. The latter has been a debate at Georgetown, as the rest of the Patriot League is following the Fordham lead and going to scholarships, while Georgetown, as far as I've read, is trying to maintain non-scholarship football in the same league.

My point is these peer Jesuit institutions to SLU are finding the ways to have Football. Let's not just dismiss Football as impossible because it is not impossible. It is being played elsewhere.


http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/02/14/football-scholarships-patriot-league-distances-self-ivies

Look at that link and especially the Comments. A code breaker sits in the Comments from a Bucknell poster. Once even a non-scholarship program (like Georgetown, Dayton, San Diego, Valparaiso, or Butler) gets to 57 financial aid equivalents and merit based (academic scholarships), that team (and any other 60-65 FCS scholarship team) can go on the road and play a "buy" game against a FBS opponent, a game that can bring a six figure guarantee home with it.

You see this plays right into the Bill Snyder K-State model, the one Snyder first used to rise K-State from the abyss and get it Bowl eligible, the one borrowed by Gary Pinkel and his Mizzou Get Bowl Eligible Program, also used at Iowa State and now even at Illinois. They get the win (although Fordham messed with that theory this season by winning at FBS Temple) and the FCS program gets the check to deal with those SLU Football is impossible issues like Title IX and the cost of Football.

I cite some Midwestern FBS schools as examples that have been playing FCS schools, albeit most of them are FCS scholarship teams.

Being a road Football mercenary does not have to last forever. You do that while you are building the program, to pay for it, at least in part. And that is only 1 or 2 at the most games on a 12 game schedule.

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I don't know how it works in the NCAA, but I do know in NAIA they split the athletic scholarships however they feel the need. I believe a football team has 24. They can split that into 36 or 48 or however many they think they need to accommodate the players' needs.

Fordham and Holy cross have smaller endowments than SLU, yet have football programs. And it's not just endowments, but a lot of the expense can be offset by corporate sponsorship, by simply hanging their corporate banner in or around the facilities. Look closely at the Hermann Stadium scoreboard and there's the name of a brewery on it; the Chaifetz Arena jumbotron flashes corporate ads, check out the sidelines and up in the rafters, there's more corporate banners than you can shake a stick at. Major corporations would be happy to advertise on SLU property. There's a lot of aerospace, software, automotive, tourism and other businesses in St. Louis and Missouri. They want and need to advertise. Ok, so we let some major corporation name our field with their name. Imagine some tv or radio announcer saying something like "welcome to the Boeing Stadium on the beautiful campus of Saint Louis University" someday.

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"The net operating results show FBS schools are losing nearly $9.5 million on average, compared with FCS schools that are losing slightly more than $9.1 million and non-football schools at approximately $8.6 million." (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6665112)

That's just one of dozens of stories with similar statistics. Except for the elite schools, football loses money, period. As for the alleged PR value, again, unless you're a big-time program, it's zilch. (Personal opinion; I'd be glad to hear how, for example Fordham, has advanced the school's image through its football program.)

PS Endowments are not in any way meant to subsidize intercollegiate athletic programs.

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