RiseAndGrind Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Agreed. I thought the refs made the right decision. I suppose. I just thought there was a mandatory foul for any elbows to the head. Apparently I have the rule wrong. Thanks for the explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Agreed. I thought the refs made the right decision. The player has to be in control of his elbows at all times, to say Reggie bent down to the players waist is incorrect. He crouched a bit but not that low. Should of been a foul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I did not have a chance to listen to the game or see the stream if there was one. You should of stopped here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The player has to be in control of his elbows at all times, to say Reggie bent down to the players waist is incorrect. He crouched a bit but not that low. Should of been a foul He was definitely down by the guys waist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 He was definitely down by the guys waist. Agree to disagree. Let's hope Reggie feels good today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Not talking technically about basketball but about head injuries here. The thinnest bone coverage of the brain is in the temporal area. The temporal bone is thin and may break easily when punched hard by a pointed object (an elbow may qualify). They may have transferred Reggie to the hospital for a needed CT of the head to rule out a skull fracture, particularly a depressed skull fracture. We will know when we find out what the tests showed. I assume he is OK, he was moving all extremities (fingers included) visibly in the TV feed. We need patience to wait for the results on Reggie. I hope an pray all is well with him. Yes time will tell, but to define some things. Mild traumatic brain injury occurs with a blow to the head. This is what media, and non-medical types refer to as a concussion. In medicine things are often renamed to further define injuries and guide management. One does not have to be knocked out to have a concussion but if you are knockout it is a concussion. So clearly at least on video he seemed to be knocked out, then came to, agree CT of the head would be warranted to exclude a skull fracture. His degree of severity depends on his progression after the injury, how much he remembers, typically they will test his mental status immediately, 30 minutes later and hours later. I hope he does not have one like Reid did, as he was not able to practice for weeks...add into Agbeko's injury, and recovery that he is going into finals, hope it does not effect him too much, I would hope he could play for the indiana State game, but fear a more prolonged recovery. The elbow is particularly a problem because of the force is transmitted by a small surface area, rather than spread out over a large surface area. Imagine the difference of having your foot stepped on by a woman in a tennis shoe or a woman wearing a stiletto.... would like to know the rule regarding an elbow. It is hard for me to believe that the rule allows a player to be knocked out inadvertently. The force of the blow was generated by the elbow predominantly not his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billslasttermdropout Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share Posted December 8, 2013 Reggie was the defender and I thought it looked like he basically banged his head into the guys elbow. It was a good no call or a foul on Reggie. Hopefully, he's alright, because I'm a fan of his play. The refs were bad, but I thought they were bad both ways. The foul calling, to me, seemed to definitely lean in Valpo's favor while the other calls went our way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 None of us would be in the worry mode we're in right now had we beat either UW or WSU. We deserved to lose to UW as we just fell too far behind. WSU a different story as we could/should have won that game. Still. These two losses have dashed the expectation that we should have been a ranked team at this point. Forget rankings for the moment, because we have a lot of issues to clean up before we can hope for votes. Rebounding is a major problem right now. We are giving teams way too many second chances, but coaches can fix this in practice. It's not like we're a small team, except when we start JB over GG or RA. What I'd like to see is TL at 6'8" practice himself into a starting role or first off the be bench. That gives us a long front line since DE plays a couple of inches taller than he is. Also critical is RL and JM become a lot more aggressive on the boards. With the disparity we've seen in boards recently, I'd expect to see GG back as a starter sooner than later. We still don't have a go to sniper. Have no idea how this gets fixed. Our best hope is MM, JB, or RL find their stroke and find it soon. Should we hope TL or MC emerge as new versions of CE and KL? Hoping's a long way from reality. But given the fact most team's will zone us to shut down DE, someone has to rise to the occasion. Speaking of DE, it would be nice if he rediscovered that mid range jumper he had going for him late last year. We got away with murder last night missing those late crucial FTs. This can be fixed by devoting time in practice. On the plus side, we're playing decent D, best in the A10 from a ppg perspective, which is what really defines Billiken hoops anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The player has to be in control of his elbows at all times, to say Reggie bent down to the players waist is incorrect. He crouched a bit but not that low. Should of been a foul I personally think this rule is one of the worst in college basketball as intent plays no part in calling it a flagrant 1. There are situations all the time when a player has his elbows at a reasonable height and the defender moves his head right into them. I though the elbow called on Wisconsin against Austin was a bad call. I thought the call against Evans his freshman year against temple which changed the game was an equal amount of bs. I thought the refs in this game used good judgment as the players elbows were not particularly high, it was clearly not intentional and it wasn't clear who initiated the contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The Valpo player did not swing or pivot with his arm bent so that the elbow would be extended. They got tangled up and as Reggie was falling to the floor — because he was tripped — the Valpo player inadvertently conked him with the back of his arm. Reggie's head happened to be right where the guy's elbow was. In no way was he trying to hit Agbeko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 We got away with murder last night missing those late crucial FTs. This can be fixed by devoting time in practice. . Do you really believe we can simply start making free throws if we just devote a few more minutes to it in practice? If it was really that easy it would have already been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 You should of stopped here I am sorry - you can read a recap and see the box score to still draw reasonable conclusions. For example, you do not have to have seen it to see from the box score that we were out rebounded by 20 plus and to know that that is not good. You also do not have to have seen the 4 missed FT at the end in a tight game to know that that is not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 regarding the elbow rule this is from CBS "Lastly, the elbow rule was amended. Previously, if any player swung his elbow above his shoulders and made contact with an opposing player, a flagrant foul was automatic. Now that won't be the case. Officials will be able to use the monitor to determine whether elbow contact should be a flagrant 1, a flagrant 2 or no foul at all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Do you really believe we can simply start making free throws if we just devote a few more minutes to it in practice? If it was really that easy it would have already been done. I do think some players will be staying late to shoot FTs. FTs tend to be about muscle memory, extra work on them brings results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I do think some players will be staying late to shoot FTs. FTs tend to be about muscle memory, extra work on them brings results. The time to practice and do significant work on free throws is the summer. I highly doubt staying late for a few practices can lead to an appreciable increase in our shooting. And while the timing of our misses has left a lot to be desired, the overall FT shooting has been fine. We are shooting 72.1% against D1 opponents and the national average is 69.4%. Our FT defense is actually 67.4% (i.e. the other teams have not been shooting well, led by Wisconsin's performance). Last year we shot 70.4% and the national average was also 69.4%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Are you comfortable with the way we shot clutch FT's last night? Tight games usually come down to hitting FTs at the end. Even JJ tweeted he'd be staying late to practice them. FTs are all about confidence and trusting your motion. Extra practice restores or builds both. We won on a miracle tip in last night. If we'd lost everyone here would be ready to take the leap over those missed FTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Are you comfortable with the way we shot clutch FT's last night? Tight games usually come down to hitting FTs at the end. Even JJ tweeted he'd be staying late to practice them. FTs are all about confidence and trusting your motion. Extra practice restores or builds both. We won on a miracle tip in last night. If we'd lost everyone here would be ready to take the leap over those missed FTs. I'm comfortable with how Dwayne shot FTs hitting 3 of 4 in the last minute. What I'm not comfortable with is how Jett shot FTs last night and all season and why he was even in the game with clutch FTs to be made. He's 60% for the year, far and away the worst of our key players. If you choose to believe him putting a few hours of extra time is going to change that then so be it but he shot 62% last year, 63% as a sophomore and 61% as a freshman. He is what he is (and he is great at many things, just not FTs). Compare that to McCall who has shot 82% as a freshman, 76% as a soph, 82% as a junior and 75% so far this year. McBroom is 13 of 14 on the season. Maybe those players should be in the game when the other team is going to foul and our piss poor FT shooting down the stretch won't occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 regarding the elbow rule this is from CBS "Lastly, the elbow rule was amended. Previously, if any player swung his elbow above his shoulders and made contact with an opposing player, a flagrant foul was automatic. Now that won't be the case. Officials will be able to use the monitor to determine whether elbow contact should be a flagrant 1, a flagrant 2 or no foul at all." Thanks - that clears it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doowop Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 You should of stopped hereI know it is just a message board but you keep writing should of when the correct words should be should have or should've. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I know it is just a message board but you keep writing should of when the correct words should be should have or should've. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westy03 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I know it is just a message board but you keep writing should of when the correct words should be should have or should've. Meh. Ho well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlarry Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 The free throws didnt bother me to much. It was so dark in the arena they probably couldnt see the hoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I know it is just a message board but you keep writing should of when the correct words should be should have or should've. Your response could HAVE benefited from a comma between "message board" and "but" due to the presence of two independent clauses separated by a conjunction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastsidejoe Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I'm comfortable with how Dwayne shot FTs hitting 3 of 4 in the last minute. What I'm not comfortable with is how Jett shot FTs last night and all season and why he was even in the game with clutch FTs to be made. He's 60% for the year, far and away the worst of our key players. If you choose to believe him putting a few hours of extra time is going to change that then so be it but he shot 62% last year, 63% as a sophomore and 61% as a freshman. He is what he is (and he is great at many things, just not FTs). Compare that to McCall who has shot 82% as a freshman, 76% as a soph, 82% as a junior and 75% so far this year. McBroom is 13 of 14 on the season. Maybe those players should be in the game when the other team is going to foul and our piss poor FT shooting down the stretch won't occur. I was wondering how long it would take someone to point this out. Not very good coaching if you ask me. How many assistants does it take to make wise substitutions?? No way Jett should have been in there at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I was wondering how long it would take someone to point this out. Not very good coaching if you ask me. How many assistants does it take to make wise substitutions?? No way Jett should have been in there at the end. Was wondering the exact same thing. I was sneaking a stream while at a party and just assumed MM was hurt. How the hell is he not in there when you strongly suspect fouls are coming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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