Billikenswin Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Tough loss but for much of the game we played tough as nails defense. Shooting woes continue and that ultimately killed us. Now for a bit of perspective--a lot of so called good teams lost over the past week making many more mistakes than our Bills. In the Memphis--OK State game yesterday there were numerous bad plays and mistakes down the stretch and Memphis pulled out a win againt a team that killed them two weeks earlier. the amazing thing to me was the announcer saying that Pastner in his 5 years at Memphis--with all the super high rated recruits--had NEVER, until yesterday, ever beaten a ranked team. We are very spoiled at this point when so many fans are upset because we lose to the 10th and 12th ranked teams in the country in close games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 You are right about perspective, HOWEVER, puting the season in perspective at this point means 1) we have only beaten teams far inferior to what we are (or thought we were), 2) our seniors as a group have far underachieved expectations, 3) we have yet to find a dependable 3 pt sniper and 4) we have yet to play a solid or even close to solid 40 minutes of basketball and 5) three players we hoped would finally contribute (JM, GG and JB) have been average, at best, against anything even resembling competitive teams. Are these all "glass half full" observations? Yes, but based on the hopes we all had, the glass is, in fact, half full. It's time to get our $h!+ together. If we rightfully disagree with the lack of respect we have been given by preseason and early season polls, then we need to win handily against Valpo, Vandy and Indy State. Based on our early season performances is anyone on this Board not concerned about those games against slightly-better-than-average teams? I hope we at least play well enough tomorrow night that JC can give meaningfull minutes to Crawford, Lancona and Reggie, We need to start seeing what all of them can add to the team, if the upperclassmen continue to underperform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMS67 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Last year we were 3-3 at this point with losses to Kansas, Santa Clara and Washington. I think it will be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Last year we were 3-3 at this point with losses to Kansas, Santa Clara and Washington. I think it will be ok. I hope you are right, but last year's 3-3 record has nothing to do with this year. Last year we had a new head coach coupled with the shock of playing without the coach that recruited the entire team. This year they all have a full year together to learn the JC system, we use 5 seniors heavily, we haven't played Kansas and we are not missing our go-to leader (KM) as we were last year. In other words we had reasons to be 3-3 last year. This year, there really is no excuse for the way this senior-laden team has begun the year, and I don't mean the 6-2 record, but more importantly the way we have played. Why should a group of 4 starters who wound up last year 13th in the polls, be playing the way they are? I don't have the answer, but there must be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenswin Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 You are right about perspective, HOWEVER, puting the season in perspective at this point means 1) we have only beaten teams far inferior to what we are (or thought we were), 2) our seniors as a group have far underachieved expectations, 3) we have yet to find a dependable 3 pt sniper and 4) we have yet to play a solid or even close to solid 40 minutes of basketball and 5) three players we hoped would finally contribute (JM, GG and JB) have been average, at best, against anything even resembling competitive teams. Are these all "glass half full" observations? Yes, but based on the hopes we all had, the glass is, in fact, half full. It's time to get our $h!+ together. If we rightfully disagree with the lack of respect we have been given by preseason and early season polls, then we need to win handily against Valpo, Vandy and Indy State. Based on our early season performances is anyone on this Board not concerned about those games against slightly-better-than-average teams? I hope we at least play well enough tomorrow night that JC can give meaningfull minutes to Crawford, Lancona and Reggie, We need to start seeing what all of them can add to the team, if the upperclassmen continue to underperform. I do not discount at all the fact that those three games you mention will be very tough games--I saw Indiana State play earlier in the year and they can really shoot the ball. Vandy will be tough to beat on their home floor and Valpo could surprise us on the road. I agree we need to play better but mostly we need to shoot better and have better shot selection on offense. Yesterday I thought that JJ was trying to be our new KM and he was taking shots out of his comfort zone and he made several bad turnovers, as did DE. If they can clean that up and we can get a good shot on most possesions I think our offense will improve and if we keep defending at a high level we will have a chance to win a lot of games. Wisc and WS are two of the toughest and most hard nosed teams in the country and we did not look overmatched, just outshot! But it is a fact of life that shooting a decent % is hard to do against good defenses but we need to do better to succeed this year. I watched us in warmups for about 30 minutes yesterday and everyone seemed to be shooting well and DE was lights out including from 3 point land but it just did not translate into the game.--or even to the second final warm up session where we hit fewer shots. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I hope you are right, but last year's 3-3 record has nothing to do with this year. Last year we had a new head coach coupled with the shock of playing without the coach that recruited the entire team. This year they all have a full year together to learn the JC system, we use 5 seniors heavily, we haven't played Kansas and we are not missing our go-to leader (KM) as we were last year. In other words we had reasons to be 3-3 last year. This year, there really is no excuse for the way this senior-laden team has begun the year, and I don't mean the 6-2 record, but more importantly the way we have played. Why should a group of 4 starters who wound up last year 13th in the polls, be playing the way they are? I don't have the answer, but there must be one. +1 Last year we also still had New Mexico in our schedule at this point. They finished like 3rd in RPI so that was a huge win for us in the eyes of the committee. Our only chances left for big wins are in conference play. Don't give me Indiana St b.s. I don't care how they've looked we should beat them without a problem especially at home. There are some good A10 teams but who really expects Dayton to still be there by the end of the season. Same with GW. We've blown 2 chances at big wins and close losses don't mean anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I hope you are right, but last year's 3-3 record has nothing to do with this year. Last year we had a new head coach coupled with the shock of playing without the coach that recruited the entire team. This year they all have a full year together to learn the JC system, we use 5 seniors heavily, we haven't played Kansas and we are not missing our go-to leader (KM) as we were last year. In other words we had reasons to be 3-3 last year. This year, there really is no excuse for the way this senior-laden team has begun the year, and I don't mean the 6-2 record, but more importantly the way we have played. Why should a group of 4 starters who wound up last year 13th in the polls, be playing the way they are? I don't have the answer, but there must be one. But Coach Crews is NOT employing his system. He's still implementing what the seniors are familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 But Coach Crews is NOT employing his system. He's still implementing what the seniors are familiar with. I would have to agree. Why would Coach Crews junk a system put in place by a coaching legend when there are seniors who have only played that system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseOfTheBillikens Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I would have to agree. Why would Coach Crews junk a system put in place by a coaching legend when there are seniors who have only played that system? Well isn't that more reason to be concerned?? If they didn't have to deal with a change in system then why the lack of prolonged quality basketball? Especially from our 4 returning starters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Well isn't that more reason to be concerned?? If they didn't have to deal with a change in system then why the lack of prolonged quality basketball? Especially from our 4 returning starters... There's reason to be concerned, but not to panic. It's not exactly basketball lacking in quality, but lacking in perfect precision. Last year there were 22 (4+3+3+2+2+2+2+2+1+1) returning experience years in the Majerus system, but this year there's just 19 (3+3+3+3+3+2+2) returning experience years, and 7 of those were in absentia of the coach who taught it to them. Now there are six newcomers trying to run a system they're not familiar with and any teaching they get on it is second-hand. Can a person sitting at Peter's feet one year after the crucifixion grasp Christian principles as easily as if they were sitting at Jesus's feet? (Let's take the Holy Spirit out of the equation for sake of example) Now, after many years of practice, Peter or Paul can disciple Christians as Jesus did, but not right away. Now apply that to the Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 There's reason to be concerned, but not to panic. It's not exactly basketball lacking in quality, but lacking in perfect precision. Last year there were 22 (4+3+3+2+2+2+2+2+1+1) returning experience years in the Majerus system, but this year there's just 19 (3+3+3+3+3+2+2) returning experience years, and 7 of those were in absentia of the coach who taught it to them. Now there are six newcomers trying to run a system they're not familiar with and any teaching they get on it is second-hand. Can a person sitting at Peter's feet one year after the crucifixion grasp Christian principles as easily as if they were sitting at Jesus's feet? (Let's take the Holy Spirit out of the equation for sake of example) Now, after many years of practice, Peter or Paul can disciple Christians as Jesus did, but not right away. Now apply that to the Bills. That was a very solid Catholic metaphor sir. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 That was a very solid Catholic metaphor sir. Well done. Thanks. But there's nothing "Catholic" about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Our seniors who have either started for 4 years or gotten starters minutes for 4 years aren't executing either Also, go Auburn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Sure hope the Theology department is reading this post. They'll be thrilled to death. I don't think anyone's running for the lifeboats yet. We're just all disappointed the Bills had 2 chances this week at knocking off a ranked team and get us noticed. Getting noticed right now is not the goal. Getting back to where we were last season is. Can we do it w/o KM and CE is the concern right now. I was surprised when they put up that graphic yesterday at how many players WSU lost of last year's team. Yet, they got ranked right off the bat and have stayed there thru week 4 of the season. We, on the other hand, losing only two major contributors and one veteran backup, got nada after finishing 16th overall. From a fan's perspective that's discouraging. Hopefully, the players are looking at it differently and saying we've got a lot of work to do. Honestly, the A10 isn't going to be the cakewalk two team race we figured it to be. I think we're in for some real tussles this year. I have watched UMass on tv and I think they're every bit as good as WSU and UW. Kellog's done a good job. Haven't seen UD, so can't judge. And we know VCU will be tough. We'd better be rolling by the time we face RI or we're in danger of losing all the good karma of the last two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Our seniors who have either started for 4 years or gotten starters minutes for 4 years aren't executing either Also, go Auburn Those periods of teeth-gnashing have occurred in prior years as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Those periods of teeth-gnashing have occurred in prior years as well. With good reason those "prior years." We weren't as good or expected to be as good as we expected to be this year. I love it when the pollyannas say all it well, when facts say just the opposite, What part of my two earlier posts in this thread do you disagree with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majerus mojo Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 With good reason those "prior years." We weren't as good or expected to be as good as we expected to be this year. I love it when the pollyannas say all it well, when facts say just the opposite, What part of my two earlier posts in this thread do you disagree with? I'll disagree with #2 on your first post, "our seniors as a group have far underachieved expectations." The only one I've been disappointed with has been JJ, i.e. the careless turnovers. MM had a few rough patches as well in that area but the rest of his game has been what I would expect. RL has been solid outside of his 3-point shot, and DE is being DE -- it's not his fault we can't him the ball all the time. Maybe JJ is having some issues adjusting to life as a starter, hard to say. Also, I didn't mention JB in this group because I was expecting little to none from him entering this year. He looked good in the first couple games to my pleasant surprise, but that doesn't appear as though it's going to sustain vs. the better teams our schedule has to offer. Far underachieved is a pretty big leap right after 8 games.. a couple of which we blew vs. top 15 opponents -- the coaches don't get a free pass here, either. We didn't hit our stride til January last season.. I suspect more of the same this year. The seniors will be fine, it's finding the right combination of guys complimenting them that is more important right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenswin Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 With good reason those "prior years." We weren't as good or expected to be as good as we expected to be this year. I love it when the pollyannas say all it well, when facts say just the opposite, What part of my two earlier posts in this thread do you disagree with? No one said all is well. But all is not lost either. There is such a fine line today between winning and losing in college basketball and a shot or two that go in can make all the difference--while a miss or two can set up a scenario for a loss like it did with our game against WS. I watch a lot of college ball on taped tv and many, many teams have terrble games when they are highly regarded. According to ESPN and the analytics, Creighton has one of the best offenses in the history of college ball and one of the best offensive players ever--yet they lost two games over the weekend. No team is perfect. We are not close to perfect but we are playing hard and hopefully things will fall into place with our shooting and ball handling. If they don't then we will have a mediocre year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUfan_42 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 There's reason to be concerned, but not to panic. It's not exactly basketball lacking in quality, but lacking in perfect precision. Last year there were 22 (4+3+3+2+2+2+2+2+1+1) returning experience years in the Majerus system, but this year there's just 19 (3+3+3+3+3+2+2) returning experience years, and 7 of those were in absentia of the coach who taught it to them. Now there are six newcomers trying to run a system they're not familiar with and any teaching they get on it is second-hand. Can a person sitting at Peter's feet one year after the crucifixion grasp Christian principles as easily as if they were sitting at Jesus's feet? (Let's take the Holy Spirit out of the equation for sake of example) Now, after many years of practice, Peter or Paul can disciple Christians as Jesus did, but not right away. Now apply that to the Bills. So after this year when all the Majerus's recruits leave, what system will we be running? The Jim crews career record .500 scheme? Why not work to implement and keep alive the Majerus' way at SLU because that's ultimately what brought us success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 So after this year when all the Majerus's recruits leave, what system will we be running? The Jim crews career record .500 scheme? Why not work to implement and keep alive the Majerus' way at SLU because that's ultimately what brought us success? Or how about letting Crews have a couple of years of running his system — which you ungraciously denigrate as .500 — with the higher level of recruits he is able to draw to SLU, instead of considering what he did at Army, where he wasn't able to recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The only thing truly consistent about Billiken basketball is how many fans on this Board react after a loss. The only thing that gets me through these tough losses is the hilarity that ensues from the messages posted on here after a loss. These are probably the same posters that will call for a thread to be locked at a future point in time if somebody dare to bring the thread back to life showing how irrational people were. I'm not talking about the genuine criticism either as that should be expected from fans when it is meaningful and insightful. I don't recall many people calling for an undefeated season when the record predictions were put out. We lost two games to two of the top teams in the country. Yes, that sucks. But, we can and will rebound from it. As to the loss to WSU, somebody said it best when they said that you just can't lose to a top team at home. I couldn't agree more. We pissed a huge opportunity away against probably the highest ranked opponent we will play at home this year. The silver lining in all of this is that we played two top 10 teams and I think we are better than both of them. We may not have outplayed them, but I think we have the ability to be a better team and that is promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Disappointing? Yes. But if these 2 losses are the low point of our non-conference schedule I'll take it. Losing these 2 games won't hurt our chances of making the tourney. We just need to take care of business the rest of the way until the conference season starts, and get ready for the grind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I am concerned about our offense as I thought our defense for the most part was good enough to pull out a close home win. It will be interesting to see how Coach Crews tries to fix the offense. I'd agree that the A10 figures to be more than a 2 team race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Check out TTs review article. I think he stuck a zinger aimed right at Billikens.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Check out TTs review article. I think he stuck a zinger aimed right at Billikens.com. How so? I read both the recap of the WSU game and the preview of the Rockhurst game and don't see a "zinger." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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