Recruiting - 2017

[TheChosenOne]

This is more offers in such a short span than when Crews took over, when Majerus took over or when Soderberg took over (though the info wasn't as good back then). Not sure what your problem with the point is, but it's clear that Ford is being more aggressive offering scholarships than prior coaches have been.

I just disagree. I just don't think that there is much (if any) more recruiting activity than would be the case for any coach considering the factors listed above (new coach, open scholarships for the upcoming season, and beginning of the AAU season). Sorry for interrupting the balloon party, throw the Pitbull back on.

[Clock_Tower]

This is more offers in such a short span than when Crews took over, when Majerus took over or when Soderberg took over (though the info wasn't as good back then). Not sure what your problem with the point is, but it's clear that Ford is being more aggressive offering scholarships than prior coaches have been.

NH. You make some good points. Truly hard to tell because things are so different now with social medial but, yes, Ford is really doing alot.

As to Crews, he never appeared to be the high energy recruiter but he also was the interim coach for that whole year during which time he did sign Crawford -- and later signed Reggie and Tanner. As to Majerus, he unfortunately was hired so late that he really didn't have much time that first year -- other than getting Paul Eckerle who was already going to SLU as a general student to now play for the team. And again with Soderberg, I do think he may have done his best job recruiting that first year in landing Drejaj, Ohanon, etc. but he also had been the top assistant coach under Romar and had, by all accounts, acted like he was the head coach prior to being appointed the head coach.

Unlike the above, T Ford has come in fresh to SLU but sure has done alot so far. Hope the energy translates to an improved team on the floor next year.

[JMM28]

This is fascinating to me. Is there any priority at all to the 10? What if his 8th, 9th, and 10th ranked guys all commit? Is that considered a success?

I dont think I will ever quite understand the dynamics behind recruiting. The level of balance it takes to be able to get the high level players you need but at the same time, not being left without a date at the dance seems definitely to be more of an art than a science.

I think a lot of these offers aren't necessarily commitable offers. I think most coaches have a certain cut off in mind where they would take a commitment from any of the top X, but after that it is more of a "we'd like to offer you a scholarship to SLU if you continue to work on x, y, and z things." There is a lot more nuance than just "I got an offer!" to most of these offers.

[slu72]

Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding, but I do admit to feeling a whole lot better about our chances with Travis and Williams on the recruiting trail than I ever did w/ Crews and Platt.

[TheChosenOne]

Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding, but I do admit to feeling a whole lot better about our chances with Travis and Williams on the recruiting trail than I ever did w/ Crews and Platt.

I agree with this. I realize that my posts come across as overly negative and that was not my true intent. I was more pointing out that some seem to be overreacting to some of the recent recruiting news regarding offers and interest (which I tend to believe is the norm considering our circumstances), but that doesn't mean I don't believe Ford and his staff will significantly upgrade our recruiting.

[ACE]

The Oklahoma State offer is from 4/16/16, so I'd imagine this is a Van Macon recruit (Rutgers offered in February) and OSU is just a coincidence.

Keith Williams: SG, 6-5, 190, Brooklyn, NY (Bishop Loughlin) – Offers: SLU, VCU, Dayton, Oklahoma State, Rutgers, Minnesota, Bowling Green, Hofstra, St. Peter’s. Interest: St. John’s, Villanova, Seton Hall, Virginia, Oklahoma. Latest News: SLU is Williams’ latest offer, coming on the heels of the Oklahoma State offer. He recently visited Seton Hall and Rutgers. Scouting Report: Williams is a rim-attacking guard with a developing jumper. He’s one half of Bishop Loughlin’s formidable guard duo, alongside Markquis Nowell. Twitter: @Williams15Keith

The kids is only a 2017, so a lot can still change in terms of new "offers" that may arise, but based on the schools that have already offered this is where I think SLU needs to be swimming - A couple good A-10 schools, a few lower tier BCS programs and a few from conferences below the A-10. We need to cast a wide net with players in this pool... not be swimming with the UICs and Evansvilles of the world and on the other end of the spectrum, not spend too much time competing against the blue bloods. Kids like this one should be realistic targets if the staff can develop good relationships.

[NH]

I agree with this. I realize that my posts come across as overly negative and that was not my true intent. I was more pointing out that some seem to be overreacting to some of the recent recruiting news regarding offers and interest (which I tend to believe is the norm considering our circumstances), but that doesn't mean I don't believe Ford and his staff will significantly upgrade our recruiting.

I don't think its an overreaction at all. I have no idea if these kids will decide to come to SLU or if Ford's recruiting style will be successful. All I think is that it is pretty clear he is offering scholarships more aggressively than past coaches have.

[slu72]

The kids is only a 2017, so a lot can still change in terms of new "offers" that may arise, but based on the schools that have already offered this is where I think SLU needs to be swimming - A couple good A-10 schools, a few lower tier BCS programs and a few from conferences below the A-10. We need to cast a wide net with players in this pool... not be swimming with the UICs and Evansvilles of the world and on the other end of the spectrum, not spend too much time competing against the blue bloods. Kids like this one should be realistic targets if the staff can develop good relationships.

Great post. Let's get him for a visit. The other thing w/ this kid is most of the schools, save for OU, UVA, and OKSU, don't have big time football games to impress him on his visit. I really think when those recruits go to the BCS'ers for a FB weekend it makes their eyes go wide. A real disadvantage for non FB'ers.

[TheChosenOne]

I don't think its an overreaction at all. I have no idea if these kids will decide to come to SLU or if Ford's recruiting style will be successful. All I think is that it is pretty clear he is offering scholarships more aggressively than past coaches have.

We just don't agree which is fine.

I worked for the team under Romar and Soderberg, so I do have an idea how many offers were extended and recruits were being pursued at various times and I don't consider the activity this spring to be out of the ordinary and would expect it to really pick up even more over the next month or two since we still have 2017 and 2018 kids to evaluate and contact in addition to the 2016 spots to fill with either high school recruits or transfers. Maybe its the optics of this all happening seemingly at once since it is a new coach or the increase in recruiting information available, but the number of offers we have extended is not aggressive.

[ACE]

Great post. Let's get him for a visit. The other thing w/ this kid is most of the schools, save for OU, UVA, and OKSU, don't have big time football games to impress him on his visit. I really think when those recruits go to the BCS'ers for a FB weekend it makes their eyes go wide. A real disadvantage for non FB'ers.

From his time in the A-10, Ford believes there are some big city kids who are not interested in going to big school, small-town college towns. They don't care about football and all that stuff. Plus if you are basketball player, you can make the argument against going to a football factory type school where you are going to be second fiddle. I think that is why many SEC basketball programs struggle to maintain any level of consistent success.

While these kind of kids also want to get out of town, they are more comfortable going to another city school. Ford said focusing on those type of players will be a priority.

[TheChosenOne]

From his time in the A-10, Ford believes there are some big city kids who are not interested in going to big school, small-town college towns. They don't care about football and all that stuff. Plus if you are basketball player, you can make the argument against going to a football factory type school where you are going to be second fiddle. I think that is why many SEC basketball programs struggle to maintain any level of consistent success.

While these kind of kids also want to get out of town, they are more comfortable going to another city school. Ford said focusing on those type of players will be a priority.

I like that he is communicating an approach beyond just "close the borders" that logically makes a lot of sense.

[Soderball]

just to clarify, goodwin wanted to stay home prior to the college basketball world realizing what he could be and how good he was. crews ignored him basically said he wasnt big enough to play the position he was showing thus far as a high school sophomore (PF attributes) and not a good enough perimeter player. since then, many high division one programs have told him he indeed could play college wing and his inside ability only made him more valuable and versatile.

imo, it doesnt matter how much he thought he wanted to be a billiken when he was 15 now that he is almost 17 many higher profile programs have shown love and likely influenced his thinking. add to that the fact shimmy really messed up handling his older sister and chased her away from slu only to have her start three years at indiana, one has to see how the goodwin family isnt all in with slu anymore at this point. I totally agree with pistol on the likely standings we are in. and if it wasnt for the fact at one time he did show interest in playing at home i would say we had zero chance. but i think a hard effort by a new coach could open the door again. it sure would seem to me to be worth a try anyway. but if ford hasnt already dealt a renewed effort by the billikens, i can only believe that has hurt us even more adding to previous lukewarm efforts by the billikens.

real shame. the kid is special. and billiken fans who are all about effort and production (think bonner, perry, love, lisch, evans jett as examples of players that won with effort and attitude as much as skill) are going to miss out on a player they would have loved. here's hoping the billikens are back in the running.

Shimmy and jim are both gone. Travis ford is a real, serious coach who has put guys in the NBA. Goodwin should take a second look, and i think its totally reasonable to think he might.

Shame about his sister.

[billiken_roy]

Shimmy and jim are both gone. Travis ford is a real, serious coach who has put guys in the NBA. Goodwin should take a second look, and i think its totally reasonable to think he might.

Shame about his sister.

that would be a given if the other programs pursuing goodwin now as opposed to a year ago had never put a player in the nba. and i agree and hope that goodwin should reconsider slu now that there is a new sheriff in town. that said, my post was just to illustrate that pistol is right that we now have an uphill battle simply because all the mistakes that slu has made towards the goodwin family in the recent past. ford's gonna have to be real good imo. hope he is.

[TheChosenOne]

that would be a given if the other programs pursuing goodwin now as opposed to a year ago had never put a player in the nba. and i agree and hope that goodwin should reconsider slu now that there is a new sheriff in town. that said, my post was just to illustrate that pistol is right that we now have an uphill battle simply because all the mistakes that slu has made towards the goodwin family in the recent past. ford's gonna have to be real good imo. hope he is.

Right, the bottom line is that other programs and "better" programs in "better" leagues have prioritized him as a recruit for the past year. Unfortunately, SLU was not one of those programs and may have burned some bridges in the process of d*cking around with an offer and recruiting him (in addition to his sister's time at SLU). Fortunately, that coaching staff is now gone and we have a new coach who is billed as a recruiter. I think the bottom line is that we will find out just how much Goodwin wants to stay home. As others have pointed out, that was a long time ago when he was said to have that interest and a lot can change. Maybe the ship has sailed or maybe having a new coach who is a passionate guy will get us back in the race as Goodwin truly does have a desire to stay home.

Goodwin is a really intriguing player and a kid who's career I am really interested in following regardless of where he ends up due to his unique skill set. Watching the toughness of kids like Kevin Lisch, Jordair Jett, and Dwayne Evans, I would love to see him at SLU.

[ACE]

Right, the bottom line is that other programs and "better" programs in "better" leagues have prioritized him as a recruit for the past year. Unfortunately, SLU was not one of those programs and may have burned some bridges in the process of d*cking around with an offer and recruiting him (in addition to his sister's time at SLU). Fortunately, that coaching staff is now gone and we have a new coach who is billed as a recruiter. I think the bottom line is that we will find out just how much Goodwin wants to stay home. As others have pointed out, that was a long time ago when he was said to have that interest and a lot can change. Maybe the ship has sailed or maybe having a new coach who is a passionate guy will get us back in the race as Goodwin truly does have a desire to stay home.

Goodwin is a really intriguing player and a kid who's career I am really interested in following regardless of where he ends up due to his unique skill set. Watching the toughness of kids like Kevin Lisch, Jordair Jett, and Dwayne Evans, I would love to see him at SLU.

+1 Kids change their minds all the time. At 16 may want to stay at home, after taking a few trips, the idea of going away may become appealing. I have only seen the kid play in a video, but I really liked what I saw.

[Clock_Tower]

that would be a given if the other programs pursuing goodwin now as opposed to a year ago had never put a player in the nba. and i agree and hope that goodwin should reconsider slu now that there is a new sheriff in town. that said, my post was just to illustrate that pistol is right that we now have an uphill battle simply because all the mistakes that slu has made towards the goodwin family in the recent past. ford's gonna have to be real good imo. hope he is.

Roy. Unless I am missing something, would we not now have the same problem even if Crews did not screw things up so bad previously? Are we sure that Goodwin would have verballed to Crews/SLU and then honored such verbal commitment?

Crews is not to blame for the treatment toward Goodwin's sister and Goodwin's own game and improvements have elevated his own play to such levels that he now has "name" schools in better conferences with equally good or better coaches than Ford interested in him. I am no Jim Crews apologist but it is not like Crews could have truly locked up Goodwin and signed him to a binding letter of interest a year ago. Maybe a verbal commitment to SLU as a second semester Sophomore or as first semester Junior could have been obtained and would have been sufficient to keep Goodwin true to his word in the face of increased, high level interest now his Junior year but Goodwin sure sounds like a guy who simply may have increased his value prior to his Senior year and little can truly be done. By comparison, Kwamain Mitchell and Tommie Liddell (while off at prep school) both were truly and publicly tempted to void their verbal commitments to SLU but, at the end of the day, did not.

[slufan13]

We have seen many guys run off, even last minute, for the bright lights of UK (Harrelson) abd IU (Stemler) despite long and strong relationships with SLU. Happens all the time.

I'm late to getting to this, but I can assure you, our relationship with Stemler wasn't nearly as good as most SLU fans think.

[TheChosenOne]

I'm late to getting to this, but I can assure you, our relationship with Stemler wasn't nearly as good as most SLU fans think.

Oh come on, it makes for a better story.

[Clock_Tower]

I'm late to getting to this, but I can assure you, our relationship with Stemler wasn't nearly as good as most SLU fans think.

That's fine. Just a name, one of many, of kids who take the highest and best offer when presented even at the end.

[Soderball]

that would be a given if the other programs pursuing goodwin now as opposed to a year ago had never put a player in the nba. and i agree and hope that goodwin should reconsider slu now that there is a new sheriff in town. that said, my post was just to illustrate that pistol is right that we now have an uphill battle simply because all the mistakes that slu has made towards the goodwin family in the recent past. ford's gonna have to be real good imo. hope he is.

So basically we are both in complete and total agreement. Crews was awful.

[JMM28]

Every time I see the latest high high major offer, it angers me all over again that Crews and Platt were so incompetent, and that May and Pestello allowed it.

Will there ever be a coach in the A10 that had the #1 recruit in the country legitimately interested, blew it, then misjudged the top player in the state/area the next year who also wanted to go to SLU, and blew that too? Could that ever happen?!

[slu72]

Jayson's interest most likely was waning after the 14-15 season where we went in the toilet and Duke won a National Championship. He looked at his supporting cast at SLU and probably said, "No way am I playing with that group."

Ford's gonna have to do a major sales effort on Goodwin. Nice going, Jimmy boy.

[cheeseman]

Blaming Pestello and May for Crews's failure is going a bit far. Pestello inherited Crews and did fire him after 2 years of bad results. May as some have indicated was told to hire Crews by Biondi - what was he to do when he was given an order - do what Levick did - what good did that do. Crews was not a good choice and I expressed it before he was hired but blaming the people who got rid of him even after some on this board thought that Crews should be given one more year or that we could not afford to get rid of him is nonsense. Give them credit for taking action and lets move forward.

[willie]

Blaming Pestello and May for Crews's failure is going a bit far. Pestello inherited Crews and did fire him after 2 years of bad results. May as some have indicated was told to hire Crews by Biondi - what was he to do when he was given an order - do what Levick did - what good did that do. Crews was not a good choice and I expressed it before he was hired but blaming the people who got rid of him even after some on this board thought that Crews should be given one more year or that we could not afford to get rid of him is nonsense. Give them credit for taking action and lets move forward.

I'm not sure I buy this Biondi told May to hire Crews story. Crews was national coach of the year. May had no choice. Cheese you did end up being right but Crews deserved to be hired and he certainly deserved to be fired.

[billiken_roy]

biondi had zero influence on hiring crews.