Recruiting - 2017

[Bills_06]

Roy may be able to provide us some info in the near future as he and his son seem to be pretty well plugged in when it comes to Althoff. Goodwin himself is not an outspoken kid, but maybe he is fairly candid in those types of interviews? I hope now that we have offered him we can move back on his list.

Candid is a much better word that I was looking for. Like I said though, mainly thought that from his scout article where he said Illinois was number 1 in his recruitment because of how he likes the coaches. I could be completely off on that read.

[jimbofive]

As expected Goodwin got offered:

https://twitter.com/jGoodwin1123/status/629370461193928704

Smart doesn't put the ball in the hoop, that's for sure.

[crymdg2]

As far as Goodwin goes, from what I've heard he was 100% all about SLU just kind of waiting for an offer. The Illinois visit blew him away though. Just hoping we didn't wait too long and allow the competition to catch up and/or pass us.

[Cowboy]

As far as Goodwin goes, from what I've heard he was 100% all about SLU just kind of waiting for an offer. The Illinois visit blew him away though. Just hoping we didn't wait too long and allow the competition to catch up and/or pass us.

-if true this could be an example of how being early to offer can be a benefit

-does that work or influence all kids? certainly not

-but if we are suffering from analysis/evaluation issues again, especially with local kids who folks on here can easily follow or have connections to, that's a bummer

[TheChosenOne]

-if true this could be an example of how being early to offer can be a benefit

-does that work or influence all kids? certainly not

-but if we are suffering from analysis/evaluation issues again, especially with local kids who folks on here can easily follow or have connections to, that's a bummer

I tend to agree with this. I am sure most kids don't put too much stock in when a school offers, but I do think it can hurt for the local school if they aren't early to offer and other "better" programs beat them to the table. If a kid dreams of playing at SLU and we aren't quick to offer it likely would not matter much, but how many kids are dreaming of playing for SLU in the A-10? All I know is that having high-major programs offer local kids before us certainly can't help. I just don't understand how high-major programs offered Tyler Cook and now Goodwin before us and after they started seeing their names rise in the recruiting ranking. Where are we at? And with the offers out to the local 2018 kids and Yess last year, we know we are willing to offer early. And with us extending an offer, you can't say it is because we didn't want these two. High-major programs just beat us to the trigger on an offer for kids in our own backyard. I understand there is more to recruiting than just offering, but the optics aren't good in this one or Cook. It is hard enough for a program like SLU to beat our high-major programs for recruits.

At this point you would think the coaches have enough time to get back in Goodwin's good graces, but you wonder how much harm has been done.

[Bills_06]

In my mind, Goodwin is more of a conversation of how Crews approaches offering local kids compared to a problem of waiting around or suffering from analysis/evaluation issues. Illinois and Mizzou offered him at the end of April to early May this summer. To my knowledge, he made the visit to Illinois after but hasn't been to Mizzou yet. Crews likes to get kids that are local to come to campus for an unofficial visit and offer them in person. It also appears he likes to do this after the summer recruiting period is over as I can't think of a local kid he offered before the summer evaluation period began. Goodwin did say SLU was one of the schools recruiting him hardest in May so it's not like Crews just started paying attention to him recently.

I don't remember with Yess and Watson but know that Ramey and Gordon were both on campus recently when Crews offered. Could be something Crews uses because if he can't even get a kid to drive 30 minutes for an unofficial visit to offer, chances are he doesn't stand much of a chance with him anyways so he won't waste time he could spend watching somebody else.

So how this hurts or affects recruitment of somebody like Goodwin, I think we will find out. Maybe Crews has a good way of explaining why he waited until now compared to offering in April. Hopefully Roy may hear something or we will find out more when he commits because from what rumor is, he genuinely interested in coming to SLU. Cook I think it was more of he didn't want to come to SLU so no matter when they offered, it wasn't going to help.

[TheChosenOne]

So how this hurts or affects recruitment of somebody like Goodwin, I think we will find out. Maybe Crews has a good way of explaining why he waited until now compared to offering in April. Hopefully Roy may hear something or we will find out more when he commits because from what rumor is, he genuinely interested in coming to SLU. Cook I think it was more of he didn't want to come to SLU so no matter when they offered, it wasn't going to help.

The good news is that he obviously liked SLU quite a bit heading into the summer, so the question would seem to be how much not having an offer from us hurt our chances and whether other programs are now standing out to him. What do the posters who were critical of Goodwin and his ability to contribute at this level think about this offer?

[3star_recruit]

The good news is that he obviously liked SLU quite a bit heading into the summer, so the question would seem to be how much not having an offer from us hurt our chances q whether other programs are now standing out to him. What do the posters who were critical of Goodwin and his ability to contribute at this level think about this offer?

Goodwin's game is fine. He has an obvious skill that he needs to improve on but so do all of our 2017 prospects. I have no doubt that he will be a significant contributor at the next level. It isn't his ability I take issue with. It's the clear obsession with him on this board to the tune of hundreds of posts. How many posts were there demanding that we offer Pickett prior to our offer? Yet, the two kids are both locals playing in the same town who are roughly equivalent prospects. It's bizarre.

[RUBillsFan]

Goodwin's game is fine. He has an obvious skill that he needs to improve on but so do all of our 2017 prospects. I have no doubt that he will be a significant contributor at the next level. It isn't his ability I take issue with. It's the clear obsession with him on this board to the tune of hundreds of posts. How many posts were there demanding that we offer Pickett prior to our offer? Yet, the two kids are both locals playing in the same town who are roughly equivalent prospects. It's bizarre.

Althoff bias?

[slufan13]

I figured it was because Goodwin is a nationally ranked recruit on one of the best AAU teams in the country.

That being said, I really like Pickett as a prospect

[SShoe]

Althoff bias?

I think it's just because Goodwin expressed strong interest in SLU, whereas Pickett has not as far as I know. Goodwin also popped upon on a top 100 list.

[TheChosenOne]

I figured it was because Goodwin is a nationally ranked recruit on one of the best AAU teams in the country.

And plays his high school ball with one of the top teams in the area in addition to producing at a really high level since he got to high school (20.4 points and 8.4 rebounds as a sophomore and 19.5 as a freshman). I am sure a lot more of us casual high school basketball fans have seen and are aware of Goodwin than Pickett (I do like what I have read about Pickett though (averaged 14.3 points and 6.4 rebounds as a sophomore for comparison), just never seen him play). Assuming the website is accurate, Belleville East was terrible (8-19 last season) and he plays AAU with the Jets, so he would not be as known to casual high basketball fans.

I don't recall anyone questioning Pickett's ability, but it is rather obvious why he would not have been as well known as Goodwin.

[billiken_roy]

Goodwin's game is fine. He has an obvious skill that he needs to improve on but so do all of our 2017 prospects. I have no doubt that he will be a significant contributor at the next level. It isn't his ability I take issue with. It's the clear obsession with him on this board to the tune of hundreds of posts. How many posts were there demanding that we offer Pickett prior to our offer? Yet, the two kids are both locals playing in the same town who are roughly equivalent prospects. It's bizarre.

Pickett is a very good player but nearly as successful on the high school and aau level as goodwin. Granted he has the advantage of a couple of inches in height that always seems to translate to more desirability, but I've seen both a lot and at this moment pickett is not as good.

[billiken_roy]

Btw illinois has also offered pickett now as well. Slu should have recruited malcolm hill harder. He's killing us on the recruiting trail right now.?

[3star_recruit]

I figured it was because Goodwin is a nationally ranked recruit on one of the best AAU teams in the country.

That being said, I really like Pickett as a prospect

The barrage of Goodwin posts started long before he popped up on a top 100 list.

There are dozens of kids each year who will be double digit scorers at the next level who aren't on top-ranked high school or AAU teams. National gurus are in the AAU fanboy business. If you're relying on Scout to tell you what's going on in your own backyard, you're going to miss out on a lot of talented players. Even if you can't make it out to the games, there is lot of good regional Missouri/Illinois high school coverage online: Henricksen, Bullseye, Earl Austin, etc.

[Pistol]

There seems to be a high direct correlation between those who have seen Goodwin play and those who have wanted to offer Goodwin for a while now.

[kshoe]

The barrage of Goodwin posts started long before he popped up on a top 100 list.

There are dozens of kids each year who will be double digit scorers at the next level who aren't on top-ranked high school or AAU teams. National gurus are in the AAU fanboy business. If you're relying on Scout to tell you what's going on in your own backyard, you're going to miss out on a lot of talented players. Even if you can't make it out to the games, there is lot of good regional Missouri/Illinois high school coverage online: Henricksen, Bullseye, Earl Austin, etc.

So in one post you complain that too many people were posting about Goodwin long before he showed up on national lists, then you proceed to say that people shouldn't rely on the national gurus.

The timeline is as follows:

- Many on this board said Goodwin should have a SLU offer

- Other big program schools start to offer

- National recruiting sites highly rank Goodwin

- SLU finally offers

Seems to me that the people on this board that were saying Goodwin should have an offer were right all along. I certainly wouldn't criticize those that called for an early offer.

[3star_recruit]

As someone who has seen both players' I'm just at a loss how one kid can be the subject of hundreds of posts and the other kid not even get mentioned. Which high school or AAU team you play for doesn't really carry a lot of weight with me. If you can play, you can play.

I will take account a prospect's visibilty when discussing players going forward. No hard feelings.

[kmbilliken]

As someone who has seen both players' I'm just at a loss how one kid can be the subject of hundreds of posts and the other kid not even get mentioned. Which high school or AAU team you play for doesn't really carry a lot of weight with me. If you can play, you can play.

I will take account a prospect's visibilty when discussing players going forward. No hard feelings.

3star. Which do you think is the better prospect? I've seen Goodwin play several times, but never have seen Pickett. What is his game like?

[3star_recruit]

3star. Which do you think is the better prospect? I've seen Goodwin play several times, but never have seen Pickett. What is his game like?

This is a repost of my earlier thumbnail description:

Javon Pickett is a 6'4 175 lb small forward who can get to the rack, shoot the three and find the open man. Rebounds well for a skinny kid. Has had a good AAU season so far. At the rate he's improving, he has a chance to be an impact player as a freshman.

Addendum: He's grown some since the spring. He's closer to 6'5. Used his first step to the rack to get to the rim during the season but he's more confident with his handle now.

[thetorch]

C'mon 3star you are nitpicking.

Goodwin has been a star since his freshman year. He dominated last year as a sophomore for a top area team then plays a year up and is the 2nd or 3rd best player on a top 5 nationally eau team. Everyone admits he has a couple holes in his game and there has been healthy debate over how good he really is. Add in to the fact he has been genuinely interested in SLU and you get a lot of posts.

Picket on the other hand plays for a crappy high school team and he wasn't even the best player on it. He received little local or national pub until a few coaches saw him play well the past month. Even guys like bulls-eye were surprised by his play. If he was on your radar as a serious prospect well you are better than most out there. I saw him once last year and honestly don't remember how he played, he wasn't someone I deemed worthy to watch.

I'm sure Pickett's interest on the board will increase now but Goodwin is the top area player in his class, as long as he maintains interest in slu he will be mentioned more here.

[TheChosenOne]

Who cares, are you a scout 3star? Most of us don't dedicate our lives to scouting local high school basketball (since I am a 33 year old without a son playing basketball and am in no way involved in basketball as a job it would be weird if I did). I get out to a few games (mostly Chaminade games since I went there), but catching a team like Belleville East never crossed my mind and Pickett's stats didn't make him known to casual fans like me (doesn't mean he can't play and nobody has said that, you are building a straw man there). As the top team across the river, Althoff did and many posters on this board have also watched them play and seen Goodwin's impressive production. Pickett is just now blowing up, but it is pretty obvious why many of us weren't overly aware of him and thus not posting about him. You aren't very bright if you don't understand why Goodwin has been the subject of a lot of posts, you do realize most of us have lives, jobs, families, and don't spend our weekends watching young boys run around in gym shorts?

[samslu]

Who cares, are you a scout 3star? Most of us don't dedicate our lives to scouting local high school basketball (since I am a 33 year old without a son playing basketball and am in no way involved in basketball as a job it would be weird if I did). I get out to a few games (mostly Chaminade games since I went there), but catching a team like Belleville East never crossed my mind and Pickett's stats didn't make him known to casual fans like me (doesn't mean he can't play and nobody has said that, you are building a straw man there). As the top team across the river, Althoff did and many posters on this board have also watched them play and seen Goodwin's impressive production. Pickett is just now blowing up, but it is pretty obvious why many of us weren't overly aware of him and thus not posting about him. You aren't very bright if you don't understand why Goodwin has been the subject of a lot of posts, you do realize most of us have lives, jobs, families, and don't spend our weekends watching young boys run around in gym shorts?

So what you are saying is Pistol is wrong when he says " go see the kids play"? If you do you are a creepy weird old man. I for one appreciate the information 3star provides.

[thetorch]

So what you are saying is Pistol is wrong when he says " go see the kids play"? If you do you are a creepy weird old man. I for one appreciate the information 3star provides.

Agreed to a point.

I try to see HS and some AAU games a couple dozen times a year. I certainly don't know every player out there. There are some that I should see at least once instead of watching sneed or tatum for the 5th time. I rely on 3star among others to tell me who and where some under the radar prospects are. If nothing is said till after slu offers a really unknown player how is soneone like me supposed to evaluate and then post about a player without having seen him? Most won't do that so then discussion isn't generated.

[TheChosenOne]

Agreed to a point.

I try to see HS and some AAU games a couple dozen times a year. I certainly don't know every player out there. There are some that I should see at least once instead of watching sneed or tatum for the 5th time. I rely on 3star among others to tell me who and where some under the radar prospects are. If nothing is said till after slu offers a really unknown player how is soneone like me supposed to evaluate and then post about a player without having seen him? Most won't do that so then discussion isn't generated.

I agree with this, I just don't understand his post above which involves him building a straw man and seemingly pitting one local recruit against another when they both have offers now (or calling out people who have not seen both guys when it is obvious why one guy has been discussed over the other). I obviously like hearing people's evaluations of players especially guys who I have not seen in person (especially 3star who has a good eye for talent and gets out to a lot of games). I just don't understand what point he is trying to make.