Recruiting - 2016

[wgstl]

And the talent in that area is head and shoulders above the talent in the St. Louis area.

Could be, but they also have to compete against way more schools in that area.

[brianstl]

And the talent in that area is head and shoulders above the talent in the St. Louis area.

I don't think that is actually the case. The state of Ohio produces more talent than MO, but I am pretty comfortable saying the St Louis area produces more talent than Cincinnati. Right now there are 4 players from the St Louis area in the NBA and I think only Shane Larkin from the Cincy area.

[Cowboy]

And the talent in that area is head and shoulders above the talent in the St. Louis area.

-really? the talent from STL may not have stayed home but it seems pretty good, I know there was a big debate on the subject of local talent in the last couple of years that Taj had involvement with

-part of which may come to defining the 'area'

-everyone wants to 'seal the borders' which is a great strategy, should be an efficient use of recruiting resources and should be executed as best it can, but some kids just want to go away for school and we should recruit those kids from other areas that want to go away and try to get them to SLU

[brianstl]

nm

[brianstl]

You gotta recruit the home area, but a lot of kids these days simply don't want to stay home. Memphis back in the old days built great teams on local players. Even they can't do it any more. DePaul can't keep locals any more. You need to cast a wider net these days. It's not like it was 20+ years ago when more kids stayed home. Xavier was a top 10 team and all of their top players were not only out of town, but out of state.

You can recruit like that when you have been really good for 30 years and you are in the Big East and . We need to build to that point.

[TheChosenOne]

I don't think that is actually the case. The state of Ohio produces more talent than MO, but I am pretty comfortable saying the St Louis area produces more talent than Cincinnati. Right now there are 4 players from the St Louis area in the NBA and I think only Shane Larkin from the Cincy area.

I wasn't just identifying St. Louis vs. Cincinnati, but more that area in general. The depth of talent and level of play at the high school level is not comparable in my opinion. I think we focus a little too heavily on guys like David Lee, Bradley Beal, and Jayson Tatum when the overall depth of talent is lacking (the guys like Tyler Cook and Xavier Sneed in this class). I am all for keeping the local kids home and think that should be every programs goal, I just question what level of success that translates to assuming the true elite local kids follow 95% of elite players to the blue bloods programs.

[ACE]

You can recruit like that when you have been really good for 30 years and you are in the Big East and . We need to build to that point.

We recently had a three-year tournament run with no significant locals to speak of, so it can be done here. You have to try to recruit the good locals, but the seal the borders stuff is archaic. Even Nova, in the heart of talent rich Philly, just won a national championship with four core players from Baltimore/Maryland area. Yes, you can use the Big East argument, but they weren't very good that long ago when they were landing those players - worse than us in fact.

Forget the Big East for a second, I lamented last year that right here in the A-10 freakin' Bona-welding had landed Jaylen Adams out of Baltimore. No reason we can't go into an area like that and get players like Adams if Bona-welding can do it.

I was encouraged that Ford specifically mentioned Baltimore as a target market. Not expecting to beat the blue bloods for recruits there, but there is so much talent there, opportunities exist to get quality under the radar recruits.

[Pistol]

Currently, the STL area has a stronger crop of talent than Cincinnati.

However - and this is the big difference - Cincinnati is within about 100 miles of five other cities: Columbus, Indianapolis, Lexington, Louisville, and Dayton.

St. Louis is farther away from the "nearby" markets it has to recruit - Kansas City, Memphis, Chicago, Indianapolis, and just about any other city of size is at least 4 hours away. Places like Springfield (MO and IL), Peoria, Bloomington, and Columbia are closer, but still a couple hours or more. And they're smaller, so the talent isn't as deep, anyway.

So even though St. Louis currently is putting out more top-flight recruits as a metro area than Cincinnati, the "region" is a lot more spread out and therefore recruits are spread thinner. Xavier has a really solid pipeline within that 100-mile radius.

[brianstl]

We recently had a three-year tournament run with no significant locals to speak of, so it can be done here. You have to try to recruit the good locals, but the seal the borders stuff is archaic. Even Nova, in the heart of talent rich Philly, just won a national championship with four core players from Baltimore/Maryland area. Yes, you can use the Big East argument, but they weren't very good that long ago when they were landing those players - worse than us in fact.

Forget the Big East for a second, I lamented last year that right here in the A-10 freakin' Bona-welding had landed Jaylen Adams out of Baltimore. No reason we can't go into an area like that and get players like Adams if Bona-welding can do it.

I was encouraged that Ford specifically mentioned Baltimore as a target market. Not expecting to beat the blue bloods for recruits there, but there is so much talent there, opportunities exist to get quality under the radar recruits.

We did that with Rickma and his national reputation. We don't have another Rickma coming here.

You can actually argue that Rickma's attitude towards local recruiting set the program back for whoever followed him.

[NH]

I don't think there's a question that it CAN be done without local players. But I don't get why some on here act as if it should be done without local players. There is an inherent advantage to recruiting players from your city: you can see them earlier and more often, just as they can interact with your program more frequently.

[RiseAndGrind]

I don't think there's a question that it CAN be done without local players. But I don't get why some on here act as if it should be done without local players. There is an inherent advantage to recruiting players from your city: you can see them earlier and more often, just as they can interact with your program more frequently.

I don't think anyone thinks it should be done without locals.

[Clock_Tower]

Currently, the STL area has a stronger crop of talent than Cincinnati.

However - and this is the big difference - Cincinnati is within about 100 miles of five other cities: Columbus, Indianapolis, Lexington, Louisville, and Dayton.

St. Louis is farther away from the "nearby" markets it has to recruit - Kansas City, Memphis, Chicago, Indianapolis, and just about any other city of size is at least 4 hours away. Places like Springfield (MO and IL), Peoria, Bloomington, and Columbia are closer, but still a couple hours or more. And they're smaller, so the talent isn't as deep, anyway.

So even though St. Louis currently is putting out more top-flight recruits as a metro area than Cincinnati, the "region" is a lot more spread out and therefore recruits are spread thinner. Xavier has a really solid pipeline within that 100-mile radius.

True. But not sure there is anything magical about a distance of 100 miles. All kids, whether locals or not, want to play for a winner and no 100 mile barrier will stop that. As long a SLU wins, recruiting will take care of itself. And of course, recruiting is needed in order to win. Two (2) comments:

1. When we were winning and going to the NCAA Tourney, we landed kids from Tipton, Indiana (Crawford), Memphis (Roby), Chicago (Reynolds, Malik -- and the roster says Reggie too?) and Decatur, IL (Bartley). Before this crowd, we won alot of game with guys from Chicago (Dwayne Evans and Mike McCall) and Willie Reed (Kansas City). In short, our range appears to be beyond 100 miles (Kansas City is 250 miles, Chicago is 300 miles, Memphis 280 miles) but still Springfield IL is only 100 miles, Cape Girardeau is 115 miles, Peoria is 170 miles and Springfield MO is 200 miles.

2. When all of the Illinois side of the river is added to the Missouri side, we produce alot of talent have very little local competition comparatively in that Mizzou is 125 miles, the Illini are 181 miles and even Carbondale is a little over 100 miles. In contrast, Xavier has Cincinnati just down the road, Dayton starting to be included in the same statistical area as the suburbs of both cities are starting to overlap, Miami Ohio, Butler, Ohio State and then the blue bloods of Indiana, Louisville and Kentucky. Getting 2 to 3 good kids each year seems an easier task for SLU geographically. X, of course, now has 30 years of winning tradition, is a regular in the NCAA Tourney and now is in a much better conference -- all factors which make things easier to recruit and keep the winning going -- but it is not all based upon easier geographic reasons.

[slufan13]

I guess my take on this is I don't want to force local kids like we did with Gillmann, but you have to recruit and land local kids consistently to improve relationships when the big recruits come around. AAU and high school coaches want their players to go to the biggest school possible so you have to be able to offset that with a great local relationship.

[Clock_Tower]

I don't think there's a question that it CAN be done without local players. But I don't get why some on here act as if it should be done without local players. There is an inherent advantage to recruiting players from your city: you can see them earlier and more often, just as they can interact with your program more frequently.

Local kids who turn out to be good players, who get along with the coach/players and who stay four (4) years are the ideal people to recruit - who doesn't want another Scott Highmark, Erwin Claggett, etc.? Alot of times, though, the local kids are the last to jump on the local team's bandwagon requiring the coaches to start the winning with non-locals. Also, if the local kids are not as good as advertised, do not developed as expected, do not get along with the coach, then this discontent can -- and often does -- negatively affect all future local recruiting -- not only regarding future kids from his high school/high school coach but also from his AAU team and his circle of friends, friends' coaches and local connections. Not that missing on a local kid is the end of th world but I would prefer our head coach run off disgruntled guys from California (McBroom) and Toronto Canada (Glaze) than from Chaminade, DeSmet, Vashon, etc.

[ACE]

I guess my take on this is I don't want to force local kids like we did with Gillmann, but you have to recruit and land local kids consistently to improve relationships when the big recruits come around. AAU and high school coaches want their players to go to the biggest school possible so you have to be able to offset that with a great local relationship.

That's one of the problems with a lot of these AAU types. They want their top players to leave town for the bright lights, but they want SLU to be the landing spot for 2nd and 3rd tier players.

[ACE]

Local kids who turn out to be good players, who get along with the coach/players and who stay four (4) years are the ideal people to recruit - who doesn't want another Scott Highmark, Erwin Claggett, etc.? Alot of times, though, the local kids are the last to jump on the local team's bandwagon requiring the coaches to start the winning with non-locals. Also, if the local kids are not as good as advertised, do not developed as expected, do not get along with the coach, then this discontent can -- and often does -- negatively affect all future local recruiting -- not only regarding future kids from his high school/high school coach but also from his AAU team and his circle of friends, friends' coaches and local connections. Not that missing on a local kid is the end of th world but I would prefer our head coach run off disgruntled guys from California (McBroom) and Toronto Canada (Glaze) than from Chaminade, DeSmet, Vashon, etc.

+1 on that point. A lot of good local players didn't want to play here even with legendary coach RM. In addition to Femi, who unfortunately didn't work out due to injury, RM did offer some locals. But some of those locals foolishly thought they were too good for SLU. My favorite example is JUCO Connell Crossland. RM thought he had him, but the kid took an offer from TCU at the last minute because he wanted to make the "big time" and play in the Big East (which as it turned out, wind up being the Big 12). Sure the kid was playing in a big time league, but he was on a sh!tty team that had no chance at the postseason. On the other hand, if he had committed to SLU he would have played on two NCAA Tourney teams for his hometown team. That's not RM's fault the kid made a stupid decision.

[Old guy]

Clock, I believe that Reggie was living in Buffalo NY when we got him. He was at a prep school there.

[cheeseman]

Local kids non local kids - you say tomato and I say tomato. It makes no real difference. If a program can win with local players then the school will stay on the front page locally. If they can win without locals then they stay on the front page but not as much. The money from the NCAA is the same, the rankings in the polls the same, the conference championship trophies are all the same, and the being on the crawler line on ESPN are all the same - I think you get my point. Is it better to have local players probably but not make or breakt for a program. By the way, winning does not solve the recruiting issue - we are a perfect example. We were winning and our recruiting quality signings went down. Yes I know RM was sick and probably not on his game but it did nothing to help JC - yes I know he did not know how to recruit very well but it takes a salesman not just winning to get players. Hopefully Ford is the right salesman and if he is then he will get local as well as out of the area players that are good. By the way, I understand that not all kids want to stay close to home but we keep hearing over and over how so and so wanted to be a Billiken but SLU showed little interest and then the kid signs with IL or Iowa or where ever. This is the line on Goodwin some say so now that JC is gone he may become a possibility for us. What I am trying to say is evaluating talent is as important to a program then just having a salesman bringing kids in. When you miss on a local who then goes away and blows up you look really stupid if you did not try to get him - JC and BS have a list of those.

[Pistol]

True. But not sure there is anything magical about a distance of 100 miles. All kids, whether locals or not, want to play for a winner and no 100 mile barrier will stop that. As long a SLU wins, recruiting will take care of itself. And of course, recruiting is needed in order to win. Two (2) comments:

1. When we were winning and going to the NCAA Tourney, we landed kids from Tipton, Indiana (Crawford), Memphis (Roby), Chicago (Reynolds, Malik -- and the roster says Reggie too?) and Decatur, IL (Bartley). Before this crowd, we won alot of game with guys from Chicago (Dwayne Evans and Mike McCall) and Willie Reed (Kansas City). In short, our range appears to be beyond 100 miles (Kansas City is 250 miles, Chicago is 300 miles, Memphis 280 miles) but still Springfield IL is only 100 miles, Cape Girardeau is 115 miles, Peoria is 170 miles and Springfield MO is 200 miles.

2. When all of the Illinois side of the river is added to the Missouri side, we produce alot of talent have very little local competition comparatively in that Mizzou is 125 miles, the Illini are 181 miles and even Carbondale is a little over 100 miles. In contrast, Xavier has Cincinnati just down the road, Dayton starting to be included in the same statistical area as the suburbs of both cities are starting to overlap, Miami Ohio, Butler, Ohio State and then the blue bloods of Indiana, Louisville and Kentucky. Getting 2 to 3 good kids each year seems an easier task for SLU geographically. X, of course, now has 30 years of winning tradition, is a regular in the NCAA Tourney and now is in a much better conference -- all factors which make things easier to recruit and keep the winning going -- but it is not all based upon easier geographic reasons.

Nothing 'magical' but being able to recruit 6 markets within a 100 mile radius makes things a lot easier in terms of recruiting for a lot of reasons. A coach can catch HS tournaments or AAU events in Louisville and Indianapolis in the same day and still be home for bed without getting a hotel room. Trevon Blueitt decommitted from UCLA and chose Xavier because it was closer to home (Indy), and his parents are at most of his games. It's just a geographic advantage that St. Louis doesn't have, being more like 200-300 miles away from other big markets. Fewer hours on the road, more players to see.

In terms of overcrowding/overlap, there are more programs within that radius, true. But we've already established there are more players to watch, as well. So it's kind of a wash. And honestly, with Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, and Louisville chasing the top-tier kids from all over, Xavier and Butler have built serious programs with the next level down. (Miami is not going head-to-head with any of them for recruits; this is like saying SLU's recruiting overlaps with SIUE's). Xavier and UC butt heads on recruits shockingly seldom, to be honest. They have very different head coaches at the moment who pursue very different players; this was the case when Huggins was the coach at UC, as well.

[Clock_Tower]

Nothing 'magical' but being able to recruit 6 markets within a 100 mile radius makes things a lot easier in terms of recruiting for a lot of reasons. A coach can catch HS tournaments or AAU events in Louisville and Indianapolis in the same day and still be home for bed without getting a hotel room. Trevon Blueitt decommitted from UCLA and chose Xavier because it was closer to home (Indy), and his parents are at most of his games. It's just a geographic advantage that St. Louis doesn't have, being more like 200-300 miles away from other big markets. Fewer hours on the road, more players to see.

In terms of overcrowding/overlap, there are more programs within that radius, true. But we've already established there are more players to watch, as well. So it's kind of a wash. And honestly, with Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio State, and Louisville chasing the top-tier kids from all over, Xavier and Butler have built serious programs with the next level down. (Miami is not going head-to-head with any of them for recruits; this is like saying SLU's recruiting overlaps with SIUE's). Xavier and UC butt heads on recruits shockingly seldom, to be honest. They have very different head coaches at the moment who pursue very different players; this was the case when Huggins was the coach at UC, as well.

I guess I am dating myself by including Miami but I do recall the good Miami, OH teams lead by Ron Harper!! There for awhile as well, even Dayton's teams were inferior to Wright State.

[Pistol]

I guess I am dating myself by including Miami but I do recall the good Miami, OH teams lead by Ron Harper!! There for awhile as well, even Dayton's teams were inferior to Wright State.

And I remember the Miami-Ohio team that made the Sweet 16 in 1999, led by Wally Szczerbiak. But they've made the Tournament just once since then, and have been mediocre to bad. They end up with a lot of area kids, but guys who aren't getting looks from Xavier or UC.

[TheChosenOne]

And I remember the Miami-Ohio team that made the Sweet 16 in 1999, led by Wally Szczerbiak. But they've made the Tournament just once since then, and have been mediocre to bad. They end up with a lot of area kids, but guys who aren't getting looks from Xavier or UC.

I bet life was good for Wally Szczerbiak at Miami-Ohio...

Although life is probably even better after a 10 year NBA career.

[Pistol]

I bet life was good for Wally Szczerbiak at Miami-Ohio...

You'd be surprised. He met his now-wife at freshman orientation and they married a year after graduation. So he missed out, big time, by starting his "Miami Merger" too early.

[TheChosenOne]

You'd be surprised. He met his now-wife at freshman orientation and they married a year after graduation. So he missed out, big time, by starting his "Miami Merger" too early.

I had no idea. That really should have been a dream scenario, its a shame to hear that he let it go to waste.

[jimbofive]

we need black jerseys. black guys like black stuff. we need black guys. MOAR AFFRIKKAAANNZZZZ.