Recruiting - 2016

[Irishdude]

actually the BEST option to maximize his nba potential is saint louis. he goes to duke, kentucky, or north carolina he will share the spotlight. granted he gets more appearances on national tv but nba scouts dont really do their job watching espn on monday and tuesday night. Michael jordan didnt even average 20 points a game while at carolina. this year's kentucky team didnt have anyone average 26 minutes played per game. the towns kid only averaged 21 minutes per game. think about that. the best freshman in the country didnt even play 22 minutes a game.

If Jayson goes to slu, like his godfather Larry Hughes did, he will get the opportunity to carry the team. he will play as much as he wants. he will always take the last shot. He will really show how much of a leader, and difference maker he can be and be afforded the chance to carry the the team on his shoulders. every team will throw their best defense and defenders at him. when he dominates still, the world will know that jayson tatum is the man. i would be willing to say that his stock goes from a sure top 10 pick to the first pick simply by becoming a billiken and dominating.

i will never forget the boosters meeting the summer before larry came to slu and someone asked spoon just how good larry was. spoon, the man who downplayed everything about his team, his self always playing the "aw shucks" game with the people, looked down, then looked at us again with the most serious look on his face and said, "larry hughes is not a good player, he is a great player. he will make plays and win games that you all have never seen at saint louis before." I am sure if spoon were here today, we would hear the same thing if someone asked him "how good is jayson tatum".

if i was jayson's father, i would tell him to go to the only place that maximizes his talents, gives him a real college experience off the court, and allows him to play in front of his family and friends every game. the only place that will give him a chance to become the hometown legend that followed Hughes, Bonner and Easy Ed to immortality. Stay home Jayson. if you really want a chance to be all you can be, be a billiken.

Very well said. I won't even try to say it better. I will mention that he has a very nice building to showcase his talents and though it does not have the History of Cameron Indoor, it is one of the nicer new campus arenas in the country. Jayson was born a Billiken and should stay a Billiken for life.

[Irishdude]

ChosenOne it is not negativity you are posting about, it is just the fact that your point of view is based purely on basketball and there is absolutely no question that there are better programs than ours that probably look a lot more attractive to you personally. What is being posted here is that JT is apparently marching to the tune of a different drummer and that there are other factors that are important to his decision. St. Louis, the city and the people that live here, are important to him. You may not see it that way but, like broy posted, even looking at it from a basketball point of view coming to SLU has advantages for JT. We just have to be patient and wait for his decision.

JT's Dad took the head coaching job at CBC and many kids would have easily bolted where they were for a chance to play for their Father. Not JT, he is loyal & you said marches to a different drummer. He seems to have more of a mature understanding of life than typical kids his age. I believe this same loyalty will help him understand that being a Billiken is the right thing for him as a player and young Man.

[ACE]

What's the harm in demonstrating some objectivity? What debate team or lawyer wins without considering the opposing viewpoint? Wouldn't it be an insult to the young man's intelligence to suggest that people who root for SLU can't understand that there are benefits to other programs that SLU doesn't offer? Once SLU has established a pattern of success similar to Gonzaga's or Xavier's, then the program can recruit with an air of a bit more invulnerability, like what Duke enjoys, but until then I think SLU would be served to acknowledge its shortcomings but then hammer home its strengths with a recruit like Jayson Tatum.

Should other programs acknowledge their "shortcomings" too or just SLU? It seems to me the typical approach of any program would be to accentuate the positives. Do you think Kentucky talks about their "shortcomings"? I can just imagine a UK assistant talking to a recruit... "You know Coach Cal is really more of a salesman than a basketball coach. He is widely regarded as a below average x's and o's guy. The stuff about 'developing NBA players'... it's just a sales pitch. And yes, Coach Cal did coach briefly in the NBA, but he was a complete failure there. Quality education? Don't even think about it. This is the University of Kentucky, not Vanderbilt. Coach Cal has had two Final Fours stripped from the record at not one, but two programs, so probation is always a decent possibility with him in charge. Success is not guaranteed here either. Just a couple years ago, while SLU was preparing to play in the NCAA Tournament, we lost to Robert Morris in the first round of the NIT. And just to let you know, in the post-game press conference Coach Cal threw our players under the bus. One more thing, you would likely get more minutes if you went elsewhere. I just wanted to acknowledge some of our shortcomings."

[Cowboy]

-my take, if you are trying to date the hot chick you don't tell her you have athlete's foot

[gobillsgo]

-my take, if you are trying to date the hot chick you don't tell her you have athlete's foot

+1

[Littlebill]

-my take, if you are trying to date the hot chick you don't tell her you have athlete's foot

Maybe she's into it?

[doowop]

Irishdude, on 13 Apr 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

JT's Dad took the head coaching job at CBC and many kids would have easily bolted where they were for a chance to play for their Father. Not JT, he is loyal & you said marches to a different drummer. He seems to have more of a mature understanding of life than typical kids his age. I believe this same loyalty will help him understand that being a Billiken is the right thing for him as a player and young Man.

He could not have transferred to CBC without sitting out a year. I'm sure he did not want that.

[TheChosenOne]

He could not have transferred to CBC without sitting out a year. I'm sure he did not want that.

And CBC is essentially a full day of gym class, so how could a kid pass that up.

[jimbofive]

Should other programs acknowledge their "shortcomings" too or just SLU? It seems to me the typical approach of any program would be to accentuate the positives. Do you think Kentucky talks about their "shortcomings"? I can just imagine a UK assistant talking to a recruit... "You know Coach Cal is really more of a salesman than a basketball coach. He is widely regarded as a below average x's and o's guy. The stuff about 'developing NBA players'... it's just a sales pitch. And yes, Coach Cal did coach briefly in the NBA, but he was a complete failure there. Quality education? Don't even think about it. This is the University of Kentucky, not Vanderbilt. Coach Cal has had two Final Fours stripped from the record at not one, but two programs, so probation is always a decent possibility with him in charge. Success is not guaranteed here either. Just a couple years ago, while SLU was preparing to play in the NCAA Tournament, we lost to Robert Morris in the first round of the NIT. And just to let you know, in the post-game press conference Coach Cal threw our players under the bus. One more thing, you would likely get more minutes if you went elsewhere. I just wanted to acknowledge some of our shortcomings."

hahahahaha, nailed it to the fuoking wall. i'm sending you a veritable dongload of cans, first class USPS. you've earned it.

[SLUMedBilliken15]

It would be a miracle if SLU even ended up in Tatum's Top 5.

I hope someone can come back here in 3 years to throw this post in my face, but I just don't see it happening.

It's a miracle!

[Clock_Tower]

I do not consider that BS at all; actually it may be one of the best reasons for Tatum to go elsewhere -- IF he truly wants to improve the most in a year or two.

Think about it: practicing for a year against other potential NBA-types? or against Jolly and Gillman?? No disrespect against our guys, but it's not the same caliber. This is a major point: again, IF basketball skills and improvement is a top factor.

Doc.

Agree to disagree. SLU would actually be better for Tatum's personal improvement and basketball. And also, it's one year - not two of college we are talking about. The Blue Blood schools have other attractions (stop reading KShoe) which SLU simply cannot offer such as name recognition, status, national exposure greater competition (Duke for sure but not so certain about Kentucky as the SEC is overrated as a conference).

Look: quite simply, Tatum does not need a year of college to be a success in the NBA. Instead, a year of college is simply the latest NBA imposed obstacle upon kids like Tatum because they lack a farm system like baseball and hockey. And there is not a bench player on any team in college who will challenge Tatum and make him better -- not on Duke's team or on SLU's team.

Tatum simply needs to keep doing what he is already doing and that includes working out with his own trainers. The real growth and training is not done by Chaminade's head coach nor will it be done by his college coach for one year (whether Coach K or Jim Crews). NCAA rules simply prevent college coaches from working kids out for a limited time (1.5 hours or so per week) in the offseason. So even if we concede that Coach K is the better coach than Coach Crews, the amount of time with your college coach for his one year is simply not enough to make that big of a difference. Instead, the real training for Tatum will be with his own guys all year long -- not during the limited season - and/or with strength and conditioning guys. By comparison, 3 of our SLU rostered kids are/will be working out with Pure Sweat guys Alex Bazzell and Drew Hanlen - who was/is the private trainer for David Lee and Bradley Beal. I do not know if Tatum is being trained by them or someone else but am sure others on this Board can tell us.

Here's the reason why SLU is actually the better basketball choice for Tatum:

1. Continuity of working out with Tatum's team instead of learning with a different guys in a different location.

2. As Roy said, the actual basketball minutes played, the number of touches, the number of shots and the offense being catered to Tatum will be far greater at SLU than Duke. This advantage in games will offset an "better" competition or coaching during the NCAA season.

3. The only person who can jeopardize Tatum's success in the NBA is Tatum himself. Barring an unforseen injury (which can occur anywhere), Tatum stands a much better chance of staying "grounded" with support group of family and friends around him during his one year of college than he does being shipped off and living in a dorm in Durham, NC: alcohol, drugs, parties, etc. await and tempt all college students/players but Tatum is not like the rest of us.

As for the non-basketball reason, this is difficult for me (a huge college basketball fan) to say, but Tatum probably does not really care about winning an NCAA Tourney Championship. Why would he? And unlike the NBA and its best of 7 series, the best college team usually does not win anyway. And Tatum's dreams are NBA Championships - not the NCAA.

Finally, Roy again said it best, but no way are non-Billiken St. Louis basketball stars such as Bradley Beal or David Lee treated the same in town. Larry Hughes will always be able to come to Billiken game and get a standing ovation (even 50 years from now) whereas neither Beal nor Lee will ever be able to do this. Same with Scott Highmark and Erwin Claggett (neither of whom played in the NBA) as compared to Beal and Lee. St. Louis, plain and simple, is not an NBA city and neither Beal nor Lee will be able to get a standing ovation in their home town 50 years from now. And just a quick story but Larry sat behind me earlier this year holding his son and "coming back home" to a Billiken game but without the recognition. How nice is it see all of our former Billikens at most games each year.

[Bills_06]

Tatum simply needs to keep doing what he is already doing and that includes working out with his own trainers. The real growth and training is not done by Chaminade's head coach nor will it be done by his college coach for one year (whether Coach K or Jim Crews). NCAA rules simply prevent college coaches from working kids out for a limited time (1.5 hours or so per week) in the offseason. So even if we concede that Coach K is the better coach than Coach Crews, the amount of time with your college coach for his one year is simply not enough to make that big of a difference. Instead, the real training for Tatum will be with his own guys all year long -- not during the limited season - and/or with strength and conditioning guys. By comparison, 3 of our SLU rostered kids are/will be working out with Pure Sweat guys Alex Bazzell and Drew Hanlen - who was/is the private trainer for David Lee and Bradley Beal. I do not know if Tatum is being trained by them or someone else but am sure others on this Board can tell us.

I believe Drew Hanlen is Jayson's trainer. Frank had him on his show a little while ago talking about all the Duke coaches coming in to watch him.

[wgstl]

I believe Drew Hanlen is Jayson's trainer. Frank had him on his show a little while ago talking about all the Duke coaches coming in to watch him.

Ya Drew is the main trainer, good thing about Drew hes also very big on staying in state. He wont have a big impact but any help counts.

[Clock_Tower]

Ya Drew is the main trainer, good thing about Drew hes also very big on staying in state. He wont have a big impact but any help counts.

You're crazy if you think Drew won't have a big impact. If Tatum stays in town and comes to SLU, he will have the opportunity to coach and train through to the NBA. Tatum is probably Drew's biggest current client/prospect and Drew has a huge financial interest in having Tatum stay in town. For ever client like Tatum, Drew probably gets requests from another 100 kids of all ages wanting the same. If Tatum goes to Duke, Tatum may then get hooked up with a competitor of Drew's located in Durham, NC and Tatum likely may not return home to St. Louis to resume training with Drew. The most critical time for new talent going to the NBA is April, May and June. In short, if Tatum stays in town, Drew gets to keep/add another huge name client to his resume. If you don't believe me, get on Drew's website and see how he markets his skills while using Beal and Lee as former/current people he trains.

[wgstl]

You're crazy if you think Drew won't have a big impact. If Tatum stays in town and comes to SLU, he will have the opportunity to coach and train through to the NBA. Tatum is probably Drew's biggest current client/prospect and Drew has a huge financial interest in having Tatum stay in town. For ever client like Tatum, Drew probably gets requests from another 100 kids of all ages wanting the same. If Tatum goes to Duke, Tatum may then get hooked up with a competitor of Drew's located in Durham, NC and Tatum likely may not return home to St. Louis to resume training with Drew. The most critical time for new talent going to the NBA is April, May and June. In short, if Tatum stays in town, Drew gets to keep/add another huge name client to his resume. If you don't believe me, get on Drew's website and see how he markets his skills while using Beal and Lee as former/current people he trains.

Considering how well I know Drew an how much hes already traveling the country to where ever his client is, what would 1 more out of state client mean to either. Tatum knows he will have Drew no matter where hes at. Drew has always been a pro SLU or pro Mizzou type guy, but which of his HS guys have chosen either, none. Also lets not forget he spends tons of time on the East coast already.

[bonwich]

JT's Dad took the head coaching job at CBC and many kids would have easily bolted where they were for a chance to play for their Father.

Maybe someone knows MSHSAA rules better, but I'm pretty sure he couldn't, unless he pulled a Stipanovic.

[bonwich]

Considering how well I know Drew an how much hes already traveling the country to where ever his client is, what would 1 more out of state client mean to either. Tatum knows he will have Drew no matter where hes at. Drew has always been a pro SLU or pro Mizzou type guy, but which of his HS guys or him have chosen either, none. Also lets not forget he spends tons of time on the East coast already.

[Clock_Tower]

Considering how well I know Drew an how much hes already traveling the country to where ever his client is, what would 1 more out of state client mean to either. Tatum knows he will have Drew no matter where hes at. Drew has always been a pro SLU or pro Mizzou type guy, but which of his HS guys have chosen either, none. Also lets not forget he spends tons of time on the East coast already.

Alright. I'll bite. Then tell us about Drew, his company and how his services work with a client. How often does he usually work out his clients, both the in town clients and the out of town clients? How often does he travel to work out his out of town clients? How much does he charge? So if Tatum decides to go to Duke and wants to arrive early in the summer to get to know the players, coaches and the university, how often would Drew work him out between July and the official start of the season? Of course, Tatum can play pick up games with the players, he can practice individually as much as he wants but the coaching staff would have real time restrictions to deal with as imposed by the NCAA. Same question if Tatum stays in town at St. Louis: how often would Drew would Tatum out in St. Louis? And, of course, Drew's company has other instructors who could work out Tatum while Drew is out of town.

And again, why would Drew not have a big impact?

[majerus mojo]

ESPN Insider re: JT cutting his list down:

HAMPTON, Va. -- Even before the first live period began on Friday evening, Jayson Tatum already was making headlines.

The nation’s No. 1 junior announced that his school list was down to four: Duke, North Carolina, Kentucky and Saint Louis.

Tatum hadn’t made much noise on the recruiting trail since naming a list of 10 toward the end of the summer last year, but he decided now was the time to eliminate the likes of Kansas, Missouri, Illinois and others.

“I wanted to get more serious, I didn’t want to waste anyone’s time that I wasn’t seriously interested in,” Tatum told ESPN.com on Sunday. “These are who I keep in contact most with.”

Tatum has only taken one official visit so far, to Duke back in late February. It’s obviously no surprise the Blue Devils made his final list.

“It’s Duke,” he said. “Coach K does a wonderful job getting players better, getting them to the next level, winning championships and ballgames. They just won on Monday, they had a great season.”

Kentucky and North Carolina typically are on the lists of elite players as well, but the one school that raised some eyebrows was Saint Louis. The Billikens have the advantage of being the hometown program for Tatum, plus his father played basketball there and his mother went to law school at SLU.

Tatum knows how people perceive the inclusion of Saint Louis on his final list, but he insists they’re legitimately in the mix.

“They’ve been recruiting me for a while, since ninth grade,” he said. “I know how much that would mean to my family to see Saint Louis, if I were to stay. They’re a great contender.”

While the trend for the 2015 class has been to wait until the spring to make a commitment, Tatum doesn’t see that happening in his case. Expect him to make a decision before the school season begins next fall.

-- Jeff Borzello

[TheChosenOne]

And again, why would Drew not have a big impact?

Hearing Drew in an interview, he has no desire to be involved in the recruiting process when it comes to championing one school over another. I would imagine he is a non-factor in this decision. His only other one and done player that he worked with in high school went to Florida (at least that I am aware of). I know he trained guys like Andrew Wiggins and Zach LaVine prior to the NBA draft, but I don't think he worked with them prior to their time in college.

[slufan13]

Seems like we're overthinking the process for Tatum. Let's just let it play out

[Clock_Tower]

Hearing Drew in an interview, he has no desire to be involved in the recruiting process when it comes to championing one school over another. I would imagine he is a non-factor in this decision. His only other one and done player that he worked with in high school went to Florida (at least that I am aware of). I know he trained guys like Andrew Wiggins and Zach LaVine prior to the NBA draft, but I don't think he worked with them prior to their time in college.

Yes. I would agree that the very nature of Drew's job requires he not be a partisan. And when asked about this in a public interview, I have no doubt that Drew would politely decline and state that he is remains impartial. But to assume that Tatum hasn't or won't confide in Drew, privately say this is a really tough decision, say that he got his choices down to A and B and to ask for guidance or imput seems unlikely. And to assume that Tatum has not asked Drew what he's heard about about Crews, about Coach K, about Calipari does not seem likely.

High school and AAU coaches are likely the same. Sure, some have huge biases and some favor their own interests over their kids but generally these coaches also want to appear neutral and impartial.

[RiseAndGrind]

Last time I heard Drew Hanlen mentioned, he was pimping Cam Biedscheid and saying how much Cam enjoyed the coaches at mizzou. Think Cam transferred two weeks later.

[Billfan78]

Seems like we're overthinking the process for Tatum. Let's just let it play out

+1000 and to think we could have 6 more months of this...

[Basketbill]

MBM are not able to over think, or even think....?