joe_davola Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Only problem is most don't associate SLU with the city but Tatum does. Agreed..and if we somehow land Tatum, hopefully that will start changing. Of course when claggs and highmark were dominating it seemed like SLU was engrained with the city and it just seemed to fall apart after that. I thought Hughes would change that but players can't do that on their own. Marketing can go a long way and SLU has been getting better with that (giving tickets to kids, organizations, etc). I know we had no football in town so that certainly didn't hurt the city connection to SLU basketball during the early mid 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Only problem is most don't associate SLU with the city but Tatum does. That is a good point. Reading my post, I think that is the last time I will "debate" the overly optimistic crowd because in the end we all want the same thing, so why should I post why our prized recruiting target would consider the other elite program on his list. There is no reason for me to do that. No more negativity from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 ChosenOne it is not negativity you are posting about, it is just the fact that your point of view is based purely on basketball and there is absolutely no question that there are better programs than ours that probably look a lot more attractive to you personally. What is being posted here is that JT is apparently marching to the tune of a different drummer and that there are other factors that are important to his decision. St. Louis, the city and the people that live here, are important to him. You may not see it that way but, like broy posted, even looking at it from a basketball point of view coming to SLU has advantages for JT. We just have to be patient and wait for his decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 @jeffborzello: John Calipari, Jim Crews and Duke assistant Nate James here for Jayson Tatum. crews has now watched every one of Tatum's games since the open period started. Hope Justin approves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 @jeffborzello: John Calipari, Jim Crews and Duke assistant Nate James here for Jayson Tatum. crews has now watched every one of Tatum's games since the open period started. Hope Justin approves I hope Crews develops a good relationship with Jayson, makes him feel comfortable, and gives him examples of his coaching....Jayson seems to have a good head on his shoulders, and does not seem starry eyed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken_Blues Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 @jeffborzello: John Calipari, Jim Crews and Duke assistant Nate James here for Jayson Tatum. crews has now watched every one of Tatum's games since the open period started. Hope Justin approves Has it just been Crews or does he have any assistants with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken_Blues Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Has it just been Crews or does he have any assistants with him? Just saw a picture tweeted of Izzo and Cal watching Tatum and Crews with Tanner are right behind them watching so that answered my question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 The argument that the blue bloods use to prove that they provide the best preparation for the NBA is they claim that practices against all the stud recruits help the most. I think it is BS, but I just haven't seen that counter-point mentioned yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Great post by Roy. Also good last post by ChosenOne. At this point the Dukes of the world don't need Billiken fans making their points for them. We all know what those schools have to offer so why should anyone on this board make their cases for them. On the off chance that Tatum actually reads this board, why would anyone here want to be making the case for the competition? After the fact, and if we lose out, people can feel free to reiterate all the reasons we lost. I realize I sound like billikan here but with 6 months to go why risk it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 Great post by Roy. Also good last post by ChosenOne. At this point the Dukes of the world don't need Billiken fans making their points for them. We all know what those schools have to offer so why should anyone on this board make their cases for them. On the off chance that Tatum actually reads this board, why would anyone here want to be making the case for the competition? After the fact, and if we lose out, people can feel free to reiterate all the reasons we lost. I realize I sound like billikan here but with 6 months to go why risk it? What's the harm in demonstrating some objectivity? What debate team or lawyer wins without considering the opposing viewpoint? Wouldn't it be an insult to the young man's intelligence to suggest that people who root for SLU can't understand that there are benefits to other programs that SLU doesn't offer? Once SLU has established a pattern of success similar to Gonzaga's or Xavier's, then the program can recruit with an air of a bit more invulnerability, like what Duke enjoys, but until then I think SLU would be served to acknowledge its shortcomings but then hammer home its strengths with a recruit like Jayson Tatum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 What's the harm in demonstrating some objectivity? What debate team or lawyer wins without considering the opposing viewpoint? Wouldn't it be an insult to the young man's intelligence to suggest that people who root for SLU can't understand that there are benefits to other programs that SLU doesn't offer? Once SLU has established a pattern of success similar to Gonzaga's or Xavier's, then the program can recruit with an air of a bit more invulnerability, like what Duke enjoys, but until then I think SLU would be served to acknowledge its shortcomings but then hammer home its strengths with a recruit like Jayson Tatum. We're not trying to win a court case. We're asking a kid with unique ties to the Billiken program to take a leap of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 What's the harm in demonstrating some objectivity? What debate team or lawyer wins without considering the opposing viewpoint? Wouldn't it be an insult to the young man's intelligence to suggest that people who root for SLU can't understand that there are benefits to other programs that SLU doesn't offer? Once SLU has established a pattern of success similar to Gonzaga's or Xavier's, then the program can recruit with an air of a bit more invulnerability, like what Duke enjoys, but until then I think SLU would be served to acknowledge its shortcomings but then hammer home its strengths with a recruit like Jayson Tatum. If we're limiting ourselves to Gonzaga or Xavier, forget it. Not good enough...to win the big prize, we need to look more at Duke, UK, and such. I agree with the last part, but I don't agree at all with acknowledging the shortcomings...we're trying to sell a product, so why would you want to tell the world what's wrong with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For-DaLove Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 If we're limiting ourselves to Gonzaga or Xavier, forget it. Not good enough...to win the big prize, we need to look more at Duke, UK, and such. You mean the schools that have multiple national titles? You do realize those schools had to win their first at some point, right? Butler was inches away from beating the almightly Duke in the finals a few years ago. Aiming to be a Gonzaga, Xavier, Butler, etc. is exactly what we should be doing. You can't be a Duke, UK, KU, etc. until you're one of the previously mentioned schools and have sustained success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken75 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 actually the BEST option to maximize his nba potential is saint louis. he goes to duke, kentucky, or north carolina he will share the spotlight. granted he gets more appearances on national tv but nba scouts dont really do their job watching espn on monday and tuesday night. Michael jordan didnt even average 20 points a game while at carolina. this year's kentucky team didnt have anyone average 26 minutes played per game. the towns kid only averaged 21 minutes per game. think about that. the best freshman in the country didnt even play 22 minutes a game. If Jayson goes to slu, like his godfather Larry Hughes did, he will get the opportunity to carry the team. he will play as much as he wants. he will always take the last shot. He will really show how much of a leader, and difference maker he can be and be afforded the chance to carry the the team on his shoulders. every team will throw their best defense and defenders at him. when he dominates still, the world will know that jayson tatum is the man. i would be willing to say that his stock goes from a sure top 10 pick to the first pick simply by becoming a billiken and dominating. i will never forget the boosters meeting the summer before larry came to slu and someone asked spoon just how good larry was. spoon, the man who downplayed everything about his team, his self always playing the "aw shucks" game with the people, looked down, then looked at us again with the most serious look on his face and said, "larry hughes is not a good player, he is a great player. he will make plays and win games that you all have never seen at saint louis before." I am sure if spoon were here today, we would hear the same thing if someone asked him "how good is jayson tatum". if i was jayson's father, i would tell him to go to the only place that maximizes his talents, gives him a real college experience off the court, and allows him to play in front of his family and friends every game. the only place that will give him a chance to become the hometown legend that followed Hughes, Bonner and Easy Ed to immortality. Stay home Jayson. if you really want a chance to be all you can be, be a billiken. Excellent post Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 You mean the schools that have multiple national titles? You do realize those schools had to win their first at some point, right? Butler was inches away from beating the almightly Duke in the finals a few years ago. Aiming to be a Gonzaga, Xavier, Butler, etc. is exactly what we should be doing. You can't be a Duke, UK, KU, etc. until you're one of the previously mentioned schools and have sustained success. Yes, I know they all won their first one at some point. I just think shoot the moon, and even if you miss you end up closer to the goal. The three schools you mentioned are good programs, sure. But they also have less national titles combined than LaSalle. Vegas didn't sustain their success from the Tark years (some cheating may have been involved)...but they still have a title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 What's the harm in demonstrating some objectivity? What debate team or lawyer wins without considering the opposing viewpoint? Wouldn't it be an insult to the young man's intelligence to suggest that people who root for SLU can't understand that there are benefits to other programs that SLU doesn't offer? Once SLU has established a pattern of success similar to Gonzaga's or Xavier's, then the program can recruit with an air of a bit more invulnerability, like what Duke enjoys, but until then I think SLU would be served to acknowledge its shortcomings but then hammer home its strengths with a recruit like Jayson Tatum. This thread has 1,900 posts and counting. I'd guess 300 or 400 or so are of the variety that argue why FBJT should go to one of the blue bloods. That's plenty of objectivity and nothing new can be said at this point. The most obvious harm is if FBJT reads these posts and says "geez, even slu fans would go to Duke if given the choice, so why should I go to Slu?" This thread has already proven its objectivity, now is the time for a bit of unabashed homerism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 We're not trying to win a court case. We're asking a kid with unique ties to the Billiken program to take a leap of faith. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 This thread has 1,900 posts and counting. I'd guess 300 or 400 or so are of the variety that argue why FBJT should go to one of the blue bloods. That's plenty of objectivity and nothing new can be said at this point. The most obvious harm is if FBJT reads these posts and says "geez, even slu fans would go to Duke if given the choice, so why should I go to Slu?" This thread has already proven its objectivity, now is the time for a bit of unabashed homerism. I have no problem with homerism. I've already said that I believe Jayson will choose SLU. All I'm saying it that I don't think it makes sense for a program like SLU, when recruiting a player like Jayson Tatum, to try to act like its the best option for every reason. SLU is the best option (for Jayson Tatum) for MANY reasons, and in order for SLU to capitalize on them in the recruiting process, they have to acknowledge some of the counterpoints. They can't pretend they don't exist. "Jayson, we know you're 99.99% likely to turn pro after a single year of college ball. You could choose a program that, year-in and year-out, is a contender for the National Championship, but realize that sometimes the heavy favorites don't get the brass ring. Sometimes they get knocked off early! And then your one year is done. "But you could then spend your once-in-a-lifetime one-year college experience here with us, where your parents and godfather went to school and where all of your friends and family can be present for your games, and with an experienced roster of seniors and juniors, whom you already have a rapport with, you could still win a National Championship and put your hometown on the map in a way that no one has done in your lifetime or your Dad's lifetime. "Yes, you're good enough to go to the perennial powers, where you'll be just another player in a long line of great players, but you will be an even greater standout player here, and you can be the foundational piece for a legacy that will resonate in St. Louis for the the next 100 years." Lastly, even the bluebloods aren't the best option for EVERY reason for recruits with strong ties in their hometown, and they often acknowledge that by scheduling a game in that player's hometown as a concession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Agree Hicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I do not consider that BS at all; actually it may be one of the best reasons for Tatum to go elsewhere -- IF he truly wants to improve the most in a year or two. Think about it: practicing for a year against other potential NBA-types? or against Jolly and Gillman?? No disrespect against our guys, but it's not the same caliber. This is a major point: again, IF basketball skills and improvement is a top factor. The argument that the blue bloods use to prove that they provide the best preparation for the NBA is they claim that practices against all the stud recruits help the most.I think it is BS, but I just haven't seen that counter-point mentioned yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 He can practice against Calbert, suspect he would be better than any blue blood one and done player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsgo Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I do not consider that BS at all; actually it may be one of the best reasons for Tatum to go elsewhere -- IF he truly wants to improve the most in a year or two. Think about it: practicing for a year against other potential NBA-types? or against Jolly and Gillman?? No disrespect against our guys, but it's not the same caliber. This is a major point: again, IF basketball skills and improvement is a top factor. I'd argue the best players are able to work and improve their game regardless of where they play. I don't think Damien Lillard or Elfrid Payton were practicing against any All Americans at Weber St. or Louisiana-Lafayette, and both went top 10 in their drafts. I'd argue the difference in improvement between going to Duke for a year or SLU for a year would be negligible for a player like Tatum, simply because he is going to put the work in to make himself better. Add in that he would likely go top 3 in the draft straight out of high school if that were possible, and it really seems like where he plays in college will have no effect on his draft stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I do not consider that BS at all; actually it may be one of the best reasons for Tatum to go elsewhere -- IF he truly wants to improve the most in a year or two. Think about it: practicing for a year against other potential NBA-types? or against Jolly and Gillman?? No disrespect against our guys, but it's not the same caliber. This is a major point: again, IF basketball skills and improvement is a top factor. Didn't Duke only have 8 scholarship players this season? So, had he been there this year, he would have been competing everyday against walk-ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Most of the top kids have impressive offensive skills. Defense not so much, so I don't see that competing against a kid who's honing his defensive skills is going to help Tatum all that much. There are exceptions of course, especially UKs big Frosh. They've had a history of being pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlebill Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 He can practice against Calbert, suspect he would be better than any blue blood one and done player. Maybe in 1996.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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