Next Year: Rotation and Recruiting

[Littlebill]

JM may have a skill set but I have not seen it. He may be NBA material but to me looks slow, weak and confused. After his freshman year posters said he would develop into a valuable player but I went to every game and can't buy it yet. He showed little improvement. He may yet develop but I saw little in the 30th game that was different than the OOC games in December. Hope I'm wrong but don't see the NBA.

I think what people see are the little flashes he shows. He has shown he can step out to 15 and hit a jumper. He has also shown that he has a couple of low post moves. He can get an open shot. His touch around the rim is fantastic.

On the other hand, he often just looks lost, like he doesn't look comfortable. This is why he doesn't play- he just get flustered very easily and makes a dumb pass or takes a stupid shot. I think once he gets these jitters out, he can be a big contributor. It looks like he will be key when his senior season rolls around. Lets hope he can be someone to count on. I think it can happen.

[jimbofive]

JM has better skill set than most of the bigs

We have recruited if he starts the OOC and gets

15-18 minutes a game he will get over the

rushing to prove himself in the minutes he gets

and JC will try and prove out every eligible player

Just like he did this year so we end up with

Eight or nine guys the guards will actually pass

To

I can't wait to see McBroom and Drew i think

Drew can outjump every one on the team and

If he develops stamina and spunk he will be a

pleasure to watch for 4 years

Let us hope the Romar years of recruits who

Who are ineligible never returns to SLU

How much better example of student athlete

is there than DE. Reminds you of Lisch and

Leuchtefelds, Pedersen- all workhorses

Never again should we have to recruit those

Short fat or skinny guys who can't make grades

Or make the leap from high school to D1

Three peat to the NCAA tournament no

Billiken era has been so bright. Thirty years

ago if we had a coach with success we were

a stepping stone. Even Spoon getting c o y

Tried to jump for a better offer rather than

recruiting hard on his success. JC has a chance

To stay and prove he can continue the legacy

With his own kids. Blue koolaid for everyone we

Won 28 games

goslu68, i am forever fascinated by the formatting you're able to achieve on your compy 386. well done.

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[slufanskip]

Manning wasn't compared to Whithey as in who's the better player. His potential development was compared to the path Whithey's took and frankly many, many big men take.

I love it when people take a statement and turn it into something it never was

Manning may still develop, I wouldn't write him off. I've been one of the ones honking him since day one. However, at this point I'd be a bit more cautious and wouldn't rely or depend on it. I'm in the camp that says we need another big badly. If JM makes a huge jump and we've added another big that can defend and rebound all the better.

[moytoy12]

Not sure why you're so hung up on Withey. People have several examples of big men who struggled their first two years and then excelled.

Exactly. Heck look at Ian and to a lesser extent, Heinrich. Ian became an all-conference type player after two ho-hum years and Heinrich became a very serviceable center by his senior year.

[ACE]

Dantiel Daniels is leaving Methdale. He looked promising his freshman season, but does he have baggage? Should we be interested? The list of transfers continues to grow. If we can land a good juco to round out next year's rotation, I would consider filling the last two scholarships with high quality transfers to build for 2014-15.

[ACE]

Manning wasn't compared to Whithey as in who's the better player. His potential development was compared to the path Whithey's took and frankly many, many big men take.

I love it when people take a statement and turn it into something it never was

Manning may still develop, I wouldn't write him off. I've been one of the ones honking him since day one. However, at this point I'd be a bit more cautious and wouldn't rely or depend on it. I'm in the camp that says we need another big badly. If JM makes a huge jump and we've added another big that can defend and rebound all the better.

Can Manning give us about 18 mpg, 4.5 ppg and 3 rpg? If so, we will be fine.

[Littlebill]

Can Manning give us about 18 mpg, 4.5 ppg and 3 rpg? If so, we will be fine.

+1

[slufanskip]

Can Manning give us about 18 mpg, 4.5 ppg and 3 rpg? If so, we will be fine.

I don't want to be fine. Not only does the juco big help this year. Next year Rob graduates and our bigs are?

Rob tends to get in foul trouble as does Grandy.

We have a very nic group fo guards, I'd like to see our bigs close to as good

[MB73]

So to summarize, since Jeff Withey (who was a top 50 prospect coming out of high school) and Kelly Olynyk really came out late in their college careers that we should expect Manning to do the same?.

Come on guys. Can we deal in reality please? It would be unbelievable if Manning turned out to be like those guys but that is what we are banking on here?

We desperately need an athletic presence inside and that cannot be found on the current roster

Drew-man is correct.

Withey sat the bench at goddam KU. I hope JM turns into a monster, but we cannot count on all of the optimistic hopeful optimal outcomes that some are assuming with the bigs we have coming back. Only DE and RL can be counted on for sure.

We need to recruit at least one big who will have true impact next yr to help replace CE + CR.

[RiseAndGrind]

Drew-man is correct.

Withey sat the bench at goddam KU. I hope JM turns into a monster, but we cannot count on all of the optimistic hopeful optimal outcomes that some are assuming with the bigs we have coming back. Only DE and RL can be counted on for sure.

We need to recruit at least one big who will have true impact next yr to help replace CE + CR.

No one is assuming anything. The only thing people are saying is that it's too early to write off John Manning. History has shown that bigs take longer to develop. Therefore, it is no inconceivable to think Manning could be the true impact big that we need for next year. Those who think Manning has reached his potential may be correct. But, that seems unlikely. That's all I'm (and others) are saying.

Would I love the kid from South Kent? Or Djambo? You're absolutely correct. The more talent on this roster the better. Obviously.

[slufanskip]

No one is assuming anything. The only thing people are saying is that it's too early to write off John Manning. History has shown that bigs take longer to develop. Therefore, it is no inconceivable to think Manning could be the true impact big that we need for next year. Those who think Manning has reached his potential may be correct. But, that seems unlikely. That's all I'm (and others) are saying.

Would I love the kid from South Kent? Or Djambo? You're absolutely correct. The more talent on this roster the better. Obviously.

I'm with you, I don't want to nor would I write JM off. On the other hand if we're counting on great improvement there is a decent chance we're leaving ourselves open to be disapointed.

[SLUDrew]

I'm with you, I don't want to nor would I write JM off. On the other hand if we're counting on great improvement there is a decent chance we're leaving ourselves open to be disapointed.

Well put Skip. Thats the point I am trying to get across. Sure we all HOPE Manning turns into something special but I do not think its being "alarmist" to say we better get some extra bodies down low or we could be in some real trouble. HOPE all you want but what we KNOW about Manning has to give you pause.

[moytoy12]

the optimistic hopeful optimal outcomes

awesome.

[billiken_roy]

What position do you see him playing? If its the 3 you might want to consider he will be 4th on the depth chart next year before deciding he should burn a year of eligibility.

why do you say this? while i wont assume that crawford or any incoming recruit is going to be ahead of shaft evans, to assume any new player couldnt pass by barnett or drew is maybe assuming too much at this point. that indeed may be true, but i would say that is a decision that wouldnt be made until early november.

[billiken_roy]

on manning developing into a special player, i will just say this, i would have assumed that rob loe would have developed into a special player by now. he hasnt as he is still quite soft and inconsistent. oh he has some skills, and by god, he might have the big senior year but currently he is our 4th option going into the summer and defensively he isnt going to make an opposing coach write a new offensive game plan.

with that in mind, compare manning and loe developmentwise.

with glaze, i actually have more hope simply because of his high energy, physical strength and obvious determination level (not that the others arent, grandy is off the chart). however glaze has two glaring holes. he doesnt grasp help defense at all, and i am not sure if he understand the motion offense beyond go set a bunch of picks. until he gets those two aspects of play without the ball, he can be a hinderance more than an asset. grandy needs to have a big summer in basketball 301 class over the summer, not on the court.

[jimbofive]

the optimistic hopeful optimal outcomes

awesome.

hahahahaha, nice catch. high five.

[ACE]

No one is assuming anything. The only thing people are saying is that it's too early to write off John Manning. History has shown that bigs take longer to develop. Therefore, it is no inconceivable to think Manning could be the true impact big that we need for next year. Those who think Manning has reached his potential may be correct. But, that seems unlikely. That's all I'm (and others) are saying.

Would I love the kid from South Kent? Or Djambo? You're absolutely correct. The more talent on this roster the better. Obviously.

I agree it is too early to write off Manning. I don't think we need him to be a true impact big. In the same way Barnett replaced Cassitty, IMO, all we need for Manning to do is replace Remekun. The expected numbers I put up for Manning earlier - 18 mpg, 4.5 ppg and 3 rpg - those were Remekun's numbers from this past year. I actually think Manning can better those offensive numbers. Again, look at the five games he played in December when he was in the rotation... he produced very well. After he got the concussion in late December and some injured guys returned, he was out of the rotation and his season was basically over. Last year, I said that Barnett would step up and fill Kyle's minutes fine and that is what happened. This year, I am saying Manning will be a more than adequate replacement for Remekun. We don't need him to be a star next year.

The bigger question is, can our four bigs next year approximate what the four bigs (CE, CR, GG and RL) produced this past year. Obviously, this is where recruiting comes in. It is very unlikely we find one player to provide CE's production, but we could do it collectively. If RL and GG produce more than they did this past season, which I think is a reasonable expectation, and Manning can equal or better CR, then we are getting closer to matching this season's output from the bigs. The yet to be named big will likely not be a similar player to CE (a big who can shoot), but may improve us in some areas where CE was lacking - rebounding, shotblocking, and scoring in the low post. Another wildcard is that DE can play SOME at the 4 in certain matchups, like against VCU. I know the thought of DE playing some at the 4 riles some people, but he can also create match-up problems. His quickness is too tough for some opposing 4's to guard. If Crawford or Drew are ready to contribute, it will give us that option of some PT for DE at the 4.

[ARon]

why do you say this? while i wont assume that crawford or any incoming recruit is going to be ahead of shaft evans, to assume any new player couldnt pass by barnett or drew is maybe assuming too much at this point. that indeed may be true, but i would say that is a decision that wouldnt be made until early november.

Well I don't want to assume he can't be better than JB or JD. But I don't want to assume he will be either. Seems to me that coaches tend to lean on more experiences players. They also tend to make a freshman prove he can/will play high level defense before giving him many minutes. I'm not saying it can't happen with Crawford. Just not going to go into the season counting on it is all.

All of that if course is based in the idea they would use him at the 3. I honestly don't know what the plans for him might be.

[Clock_Tower]

...The expected numbers I put up for Manning earlier - 18 mpg, 4.5 ppg and 3 rpg - those were Remekun's numbers from this past year. I actually think Manning can better those offensive numbers....

... Another wildcard is that DE can play SOME at the 4 in certain matchups, like against VCU. I know the thought of DE playing some at the 4 riles some people, but he can also create match-up problems. His quickness is too tough for some opposing 4's to guard. If Crawford or Drew are ready to contribute, it will give us that option of some PT for DE at the 4.

Ace. Replacing CR will be easy - already done. IMO, CR had all the physical tools but mentally he just couldn't put it all together. At times, CR certainly did and we all realized and were amazed at what a big, strong, powerful 6'9" forward could do. Then, unfortunately, often the very next possession, the regular CR appeared again - usually for good. Like always, there were always exceptions as CR really did have some impressive stretches of games - and even games - but I would not have thought we'd have had the season we did with the somewhat disappointing production (not necessarily the play) of CR.

Replacing CE will be alot tougher. IMO, I really had hoped and expected that CE and RL would have complemented each other more... that they would be more interchangeable... that they would jointly create match-up problems... that they would burn the other team's less mobile big men. As it turns out, CE turned into almost a better defensive player than an offensive player, their games were independent of each other (CE and RL) and he became more of a streaky shooter than I would have thought. CE will definitely be missed and tough to replace. If replaced by a traditional, American style power forward, that may actually help RL. Hopefully we get the chance to see with the JUCO kid. And if so, our interior game, which has been our weakness these past two (2) years and which had been dependent largely on BC last year and then DE this year, will improve.

As to DE, he is an undersized 4 - albeit a warrior with quickness, smarts.... He is somewhat surprisingly effective despite his size limitations. In one sense, DE is better than BC but in another sense, I'd take BC over DE -- two (2) great players. Thoughts of conversions of him to a 3 need to stop.

[Quality Is Job 1]

As to DE, he is an undersized 4 - albeit a warrior with quickness, smarts.... He is somewhat surprisingly effective despite his size limitations. In one sense, DE is better than BC but in another sense, I'd take BC over DE -- two (2) great players. Thoughts of converting of him to a 3 need to stop.

I totally disagree. Dwayne Evans is a 3; he scores effectively in close, like an Adrian Dantley or Mark Aguirre (not that he's necessarily ever going to be an NBA star like those guys). The 3 can be a "small" forward; it doesn't always have to be a guard, as many college basketball fans have become accustomed to.

[Littlebill]

I totally disagree. Dwayne Evans is a 3; he scores effectively in close, like an Adrian Dantley or Mark Aguirre (not that he's necessarily ever going to be an NBA star like those guys). The 3 can be a "small" forward; it doesn't always have to be a guard, as many college basketball fans have become accustomed to.

+1000. End of discussion

[Bills By 40]

Can't believe that was ever a discussion... DE is a KD35 type of player. Definitely plays the 3 spot; big enough to play a 4 but skilled enough to play a 2.

+1000. End of discussion

+100000

[Bills By 40]

on manning developing into a special player, i will just say this, i would have assumed that rob loe would have developed into a special player by now. he hasnt as he is still quite soft and inconsistent. oh he has some skills, and by god, he might have the big senior year but currently he is our 4th option going into the summer and defensively he isnt going to make an opposing coach write a new offensive game plan.

with that in mind, compare manning and loe developmentwise.

with glaze, i actually have more hope simply because of his high energy, physical strength and obvious determination level (not that the others arent, grandy is off the chart). however glaze has two glaring holes. he doesnt grasp help defense at all, and i am not sure if he understand the motion offense beyond go set a bunch of picks. until he gets those two aspects of play without the ball, he can be a hinderance more than an asset. grandy needs to have a big summer in basketball 301 class over the summer, not on the court.

Agreed completely. Hoping that he reaches his potential soon, because I'm still waiting to break out the "YOU JUST GOT GLAZED" sign.

And I've got that patented.

[slufanskip]

Can't believe that was ever a discussion... DE is a KD35 type of player. Definitely plays the 3 spot; big enough to play a 4 but skilled enough to play a 2.

+100000

Should have never been a discussion in the first place. I made the call a long time ago. That should have been enough

[Quality Is Job 1]

Agreed completely. Hoping that he reaches his potential soon, because I'm still waiting to break out the "YOU JUST GOT GLAZED" sign.

And I've got that patented.

Trademarked, not patented.