Next Year: Rotation and Recruiting

[ACE]

Assuming we go with a 9-man rotation again next year, we need to replace 3 players... I think Manning can fill Remekun's minutes. We need our 3 returning bigs (RL, GG, JM) to have "Conklin summers."

Mitchell... McBroom becomes part of our 3-headed guard rotation.

Ellis... this is the toughest one to replace. There is no one on our current roster to fill the 4th big spot, so that's why I think this is the most important immediate recruiting need. The big juco kid sounds promising. There are big minutes available there for a quality recruit.

So our 9-man rotation would shape up with something like this... JJ, MM, McBroom, Evans, Loe, Glaze, Manning, a JUCO Big & Barnett... Barnett is the only spot where I there could be a battle for playing time. We seem to have a lot of options at the 3, so Crawford or Drew could have an opportunity if they are ready to play. I expect the more experienced Jake to hold on to that spot, but it would be a pleasant surprise if he got passed over by a younger, more talented player.

So that leaves us with two more available scholarships. I like the idea of landing one really good transfer, regardless of position. With the other scholarship, I would be fine again, just landing the best player available regardless of position. The only spot where I don't think we need another player is at the 3. I know Crawford and Drew have been mentioned as having the potential to play some at the 2, but I'm no so sure about that. The little point guard that has been mentioned sounds like a decent option, but a scoring 2 with decent size would be also nice.

[ARon]

Wouldn't be surprised if we go with a smaller rotation.

Don't expect anything from Drew, not a knock on the kid just no room for a 1st yr player to get much playing time with 2 seniors in front of him.

For the same reason, unless they feel Crawford can contribute at another position I expect him to redshirt.

I wonder about the 3rd guard spot having no idea about AM. Can he play pg? If his game isn't were we'd like it to be (think JB's first year here) does that open up room for JB I get minutes at guard or for a recruit?

[ACE]

Wouldn't be surprised if we go with a smaller rotation.

Don't expect anything from Drew, not a knock on the kid just no room for a 1st yr player to get much playing time with 2 seniors in front of him.

For the same reason, unless they feel Crawford can contribute at another position I expect him to redshirt.

I wonder about the 3rd guard spot having no idea about AM. Can he play pg? If his game isn't were we'd like it to be (think JB's first year here) does that open up room for JB I get minutes at guard or for a recruit?

McBroom is listed as a point guard, but he can score. Sounds a bit like McCall and could play both. It might be asking too much, but it would be great if McBroom were good enough to start and we could continue to bring JJ off the bench.

[Tonka]

Expect big things from MM next year. I started a thread during the season about the MM effect. For whatever reason, MM's production went down when KM was playing. I am not talking about total production because the reduced minutes for MM went down when KM played, but MM's points per minute played went down. I don't know if it was deferring with KM out there, but I think MM will have a very nice year next year. I expect this to be a VERY good team next year, even with the losses of our seniors.

A year older, more experienced, and stronger DE, JJ, and MM will make for a ridiculous trio. MM is the best 3 point shooter on the team and will get more attempts with CE and KM gone. I am excited to see AM play and think he will be fine offensively. In his freshman year he averaged almost 11 points a game and shot 42% from the three. MM finished the year over 40% from 3. AM also brings another great free-throw shooter to the team as he is a very good FT shooter. What we don't know yet is whether or not he can play the required defense of this Billiken team.

I agree JM will replace CE's minutes. I expect a more refined GG with his incredibly high motor. In the little I saw Drew play in that one practice, he seemed to move well. As stated, he needs added weight. His shot seemed odd to me during warmups, but we'll see.

Would love to see JB shoot more consistent as he could be a great 3 point threat.

If Loe can develop even further, then it could be a very special year. If we can add a serviceable JUCO, it just adds to what we already have.

[cheeseman]

Unless something happens between now and then JM will be warming the bench once again. I would love to see him blossom but honestly he just may be another Justin Johnson. I think McBroom has to play or else we have to recruit another guard to pick up the time - we actually could use 5 guards. I am not sold on Barnett being anymore help then he was this year. Don't sell GG short he has shown that he has the skill to score and rebound but will is defense improve?

[brianstl]

You don't write off a 7 footer after his second year. Big men always take longer to develop. It is even worse than people wanting to bench Loe during the OOC part of the schedule.

[slu72]

You don't write off a 7 footer after his second year. Big men always take longer to develop. It is even worse than people wanting to bench Loe during the OOC part of the schedule.

Exactly, look at Whitley from KU and the big kid from Zaga. I don't think we've seen enough of JM to be passing judgement 6 mos from the season. i reall think the keys over the summer have to be RL (toughness), MM (restore his early confidence), qne JB becoming a 3 threat.

[majerus mojo]

Would love to see Crawford redshirt. Excited to see JJ go into the season as a starter, let's hope McBroom is good enough to provide a JJ like boost off the bench, instead. RL playing a lot more consistently would go a long way towards replacing CE.

[SLUDrew]

Our best rebounders are going to be a 6'5 small forward and a 6'0 guard. Our biggest need is someone who will clean the glass and get some second-chance points.

That person is not currently on our roster in my opinion.

Out of the recruits I have read about, I think Djambo could have the biggest impact on the team given that he is a post player and coming out of the juco ranks

[SShoe]

Our best rebounders are going to be a 6'5 small forward and a 6'0 guard. Our biggest need is someone who will clean the glass and get some second-chance points.

That person is not currently on our roster in my opinion.

Out of the recruits I have read about, I think Djambo could have the biggest impact on the team given that he is a post player and coming out of the juco ranks

And what great rebounder did we lose that makes you so concerned about next season's rebounding?

I want Djambo as much as the next fan and think he fills a void, but I don't think there is a pressing need for him as it relates to next season.

[Billikan]

Our best rebounders are going to be a 6'5 small forward and a 6'0 guard. Our biggest need is someone who will clean the glass and get some second-chance points.

That person is not currently on our roster in my opinion.

Out of the recruits I have read about, I think Djambo could have the biggest impact on the team given that he is a post player and coming out of the juco ranks

I must ask you--have you ever been to a Billiken game to see this team? I attended almost all home games and all 5 postseason games and our so called 6'5" small forward--who is actually closer to 6'6" or even 6'7"-- is a very tough rebounder and the team as a whole, including Rob--who improved this year on the glass--and Grandy and Jake all rebounded well. JJ is a great rebounder for a guard and even MM can sky for rebounds himself. What we need, and we will always need is high quality players who can learn our system, particularly on defense, and handle the academic load. A few more shooters would be nice but we can hope and expect that McBroom and Crawford will help off the bench in the scoring area if they can learn to defend at a high level. I was very impressed by Grandy's improvement late in the year and I could see him getting 15 or more minutes a game next year which will help our toughness on the glass. A nice frosh big or the juco big would be nice additions as well but, in my view the recruiting needs to anticipate our need for the 14-15 season and beyond for the most part.

[JettFlight5]

I really think Grandy's development is important. He has to be able to give more than a few minutes a game. I think he'll have a nice season next year.

[jbizzle09]

And what great rebounder did we lose that makes you so concerned about next season's rebounding?

I want Djambo as much as the next fan and think he fills a void, but I don't think there is a pressing need for him as it relates to next season.

Agreed. We didn't lose any real rebounding presence that can't be easily replaced, or improved upon, with the present roster.

[SLUDrew]

I must ask you--have you ever been to a Billiken game to see this team? I attended almost all home games and all 5 postseason games and our so called 6'5" small forward--who is actually closer to 6'6" or even 6'7"-- is a very tough rebounder and the team as a whole, including Rob--who improved this year on the glass--and Grandy and Jake all rebounded well. JJ is a great rebounder for a guard and even MM can sky for rebounds himself. What we need, and we will always need is high quality players who can learn our system, particularly on defense, and handle the academic load. A few more shooters would be nice but we can hope and expect that McBroom and Crawford will help off the bench in the scoring area if they can learn to defend at a high level. I was very impressed by Grandy's improvement late in the year and I could see him getting 15 or more minutes a game next year which will help our toughness on the glass. A nice frosh big or the juco big would be nice additions as well but, in my view the recruiting needs to anticipate our need for the 14-15 season and beyond for the most part.

I went to every game and I coach the game but thanks for the condescension.

When I reference Dwayne's size I mean it as a compliment to the kid that he is the best rebounder on the team. He is one of the best Billikens of the last 15 years.

As much as people dislike Remekun he brought an athleticism to our front line that will be missed as will Cody's savvy around the basket not to mention his 6'8 235 lb frame.

You guys are ridiculous. Its as if those of us are not head-in-the-sand homers are not fans and/or know nothing about the game of basketball. Just look at this team for what it is; next year's team is promising but very thin. If you think anything after that looks promising I have to wonder how much you know about the game

[Littlebill]

I must ask you--have you ever been to a Billiken game to see this team? I attended almost all home games and all 5 postseason games and our so called 6'5" small forward--who is actually closer to 6'6" or even 6'7"-- is a very tough rebounder and the team as a whole, including Rob--who improved this year on the glass--and Grandy and Jake all rebounded well. JJ is a great rebounder for a guard and even MM can sky for rebounds himself. What we need, and we will always need is high quality players who can learn our system, particularly on defense, and handle the academic load.

6'6 or 6'7? Are you counting the fro?

Looking ahead, replacing the scoring and on-court leadership are our biggest holes. KM truly ran the offense to near perfection, especially against high pressure teams like VCU and in high pressure situations like Memphis last year and VCU, Butler, etc. this year. I believe that will be our biggest thing to replace. Our two best guards will be seniors, and we will have what looks to be a KM clone (better shooter, lesser floor general- it all remains to be seen) becoming eligible in AMac. For as small as we are, we rebound very fantastically. Then again, we have maybe the best rebounder (based on height) in college basketball. If Dwayne keeps this up, he COULD average a double-double next year. When was the last time that's been done? I'm sure Rob and Manning will both improve this offseason, and contribute even more. Overall, I agree with what you said.

However, we can't just build a team to fill out next year's squad. The year after, we will have a TON of output to replace. By the end of it all, we may have to replace arguably the best class in modern Billiken history. It will be a tall task, but I think it can be done. Our underclassmen now I think have shown they can play high major ball, but they all have so much to prove. There are many more question marks this year. McBroom has shown that he can tear up lower level talent in the MAC. JM has shown flashes. (I LOVE his touch around the bucket. I think once he calms down, he'll be a player.) GG has shown that he has the heart to beat anyone, but can his actual basketball skill improve to be on par with the rest of the team? Drew and Crawford are total question marks, but I have faith in what they can bring to the table. Much like any other topic on this board, all of this speculation is only speculation until these questions get answered next Fall and Winter. It looks like it will be an exciting year.

[cheeseman]

Exactly, look at Whitley from KU and the big kid from Zaga. I don't think we've seen enough of JM to be passing judgement 6 mos from the season. i reall think the keys over the summer have to be RL (toughness), MM (restore his early confidence), qne JB becoming a 3 threat.

So, Withey and the kid from Gonzaga played like 1 minute a game during their freshman and sophomore years? I don't know the answer but I doubt it. Nobody is writing JM off just asking for some kind of something to have shown.

[Quality Is Job 1]

6'6 or 6'7? Are you counting the fro?

Looking ahead, replacing the scoring and on-court leadership are our biggest holes. KM truly ran the offense to near perfection, especially against high pressure teams like VCU and in high pressure situations like Memphis last year and VCU, Butler, etc. this year. I believe that will be our biggest thing to replace. Our two best guards will be seniors, and we will have what looks to be a KM clone (better shooter, lesser floor general- it all remains to be seen) becoming eligible in AMac. For as small as we are, we rebound very fantastically. Then again, we have maybe the best rebounder (based on height) in college basketball. If Dwayne keeps this up, he COULD average a double-double next year. When was the last time that's been done? I'm sure Rob and Manning will both improve this offseason, and contribute even more. Overall, I agree with what you said.

However, we can't just build a team to fill out next year's squad. The year after, we will have a TON of output to replace. By the end of it all, we may have to replace arguably the best class in modern Billiken history. It will be a tall task, but I think it can be done. Our underclassmen now I think have shown they can play high major ball, but they all have so much to prove. There are many more question marks this year. McBroom has shown that he can tear up lower level talent in the MAC. JM has shown flashes. (I LOVE his touch around the bucket. I think once he calms down, he'll be a player.) GG has shown that he has the heart to beat anyone, but can his actual basketball skill improve to be on par with the rest of the team? Drew and Crawford are total question marks, but I have faith in what they can bring to the table. Much like any other topic on this board, all of this speculation is only speculation until these questions get answered next Fall and Winter. It looks like it will be an exciting year.

I would think it would have to have been when Anthony Bonner led the nation in rebounding in 1989-90. I don't think any Billiken has even come close to averaging double-figure rebounds since then (if anyone came close, it would have to have been Jamal Johnson in 1996). Unless a team plays like Loyola-Marymount circa 1990, only Rodman-esque players are going to average double-digit rebounds. I think somewhere between 8 and 9 is what we can typically expect from most teams' best rebounder, and I think Dwayne Evans can do that for SLU next year. Bonner averaged about 13 rpg in '90 (and I think they were playing a much faster pace than the Bills have typically employed since then).

While one may be able to argue that the class of McCall/Evans/Loe/Jett/Barnett isn't necessarily the best class SLU has ever had, there's no way anyone can demonstrate that it's not the most successful class (as yet) of the past 60 years, given their (likely) three trips to the NCAA, two (at minimum) NCAA Tournament wins, and this year's double conference championship. It will (not may) be a very hard class to replace; we'll see. SLU has yet to become a program which can reload. I'd like to see that, rather than a three- or four-year rebuilding stretch like what we just went through.

[Zink]

Withey played about 3mpg his freshman year and 6.5mpg as a soph. Olynyk played about 13mpg each of his first two years. So you could say that Withey was a benchwarmer those two seasons while Olynyk was a borderline rotation player. Using these two as exemplars, there is no reason to give up hope on JM or GG simply because they have struggled to find playing time as underclassmen on a top 25 team.

[STLBillikens]

I went to every game and I coach the game but thanks for the condescension.

When I reference Dwayne's size I mean it as a compliment to the kid that he is the best rebounder on the team. He is one of the best Billikens of the last 15 years.

As much as people dislike Remekun he brought an athleticism to our front line that will be missed as will Cody's savvy around the basket not to mention his 6'8 235 lb frame.

You guys are ridiculous. Its as if those of us are not head-in-the-sand homers are not fans and/or know nothing about the game of basketball. Just look at this team for what it is; next year's team is promising but very thin. If you think anything after that looks promising I have to wonder how much you know about the game

Agreed. Rebounding is our shortest part last year and we lost CR. It will be fun to see if we could recruit a rebounding monster with big size.

[dlarry]

Withey played about 3mpg his freshman year and 6.5mpg as a soph. Olynyk played about 13mpg each of his first two years. So you could say that Withey was a benchwarmer those two seasons while Olynyk was a borderline rotation player. Using these two as exemplars, there is no reason to give up hope on JM or GG simply because they have struggled to find playing time as underclassmen on a top 25 team.

Olynyk was redshirted so he had a year of oractice under his belt vefore getting those 13 MPG.

[SLUDrew]

So to summarize, since Jeff Withey (who was a top 50 prospect coming out of high school) and Kelly Olynyk really came out late in their college careers that we should expect Manning to do the same?.

Come on guys. Can we deal in reality please? It would be unbelievable if Manning turned out to be like those guys but that is what we are banking on here?

We desperately need an athletic presence inside and that cannot be found on the current roster

[dlarry]

No we should not expect them to be All Americans that wasnt the point.

Some on this board have already declared JM and GG busts. The point that has been made over and over again on this board is that it takes bigs longer to develop and to be patient with these guys.

Whithney and Olynck were given as examples of this and there are numerous other ones, some examoles can even be given from past Bills teams.

While saying these guys will be all.conference players may be seem.crazy it is a lot less crazy than thinking they cant contribute.

[moytoy12]

So to summarize, since Jeff Withey (who was a top 50 prospect coming out of high school) and Kelly Olynyk really came out late in their college careers that we should expect Manning to do the same?.

Come on guys. Can we deal in reality please? It would be unbelievable if Manning turned out to be like those guys but that is what we are banking on here?

We desperately need an athletic presence inside and that cannot be found on the current roster

I'm not sure he can become those things, but I never thought Ian would develop into anything. Would I take an Ian on this team? Yep. Do i think JM can become as good as Ian? I do.

JM has a very good skill set. A good looking shot, physicality, and good athleticism. Because of other options and/or JM's lack of development this year, we didn't get to see much of him. I still expect good things for JM.

[RiseAndGrind]

So to summarize, since Jeff Withey (who was a top 50 prospect coming out of high school) and Kelly Olynyk really came out late in their college careers that we should expect Manning to do the same?.

Come on guys. Can we deal in reality please? It would be unbelievable if Manning turned out to be like those guys but that is what we are banking on here?

We desperately need an athletic presence inside and that cannot be found on the current roster

Ryan Kelly from Duke?

Jack Cooley from ND?

Derrick Nix from MSU?

[jbizzle09]

So to summarize, since Jeff Withey (who was a top 50 prospect coming out of high school) and Kelly Olynyk really came out late in their college careers that we should expect Manning to do the same?.

Come on guys. Can we deal in reality please? It would be unbelievable if Manning turned out to be like those guys but that is what we are banking on here?

We desperately need an athletic presence inside and that cannot be found on the current roster

I think when people are referencing those two, they are making a point that it is probably a bit premature to just write off Manning as someone who will never be a significant contributor. It seems that there are many on this board who feel because Manning didn't so much in his first two seasons, that he has no real ability and that there is no chance he has matured enough as a player to be a regular rotation member next year. Even worse, it seems like there is a notion that it would be better to bring in a freshman or JUCO big to get minutes over Manning right away, and that is the answer.

To deal in reality, it was not necessary for Manning to get regular, significant minutes the past two seasons. In his freshman year, Conklin, Loe, Ellis and Remekun were able to easily carry the load at the 4/5 spots. This season, you still had Cory, Cody and Loe, with a dash of Glaze and a small amount of Manning. Cory, Cody and Rob all increased their workload from the previous season to make up for the absence of Conklin, and Glaze was brought along in the 2nd half of the season and got some minutes. Manning had some semi-regular minutes during the easy part of the non-conf season and showed some promise during that period, but by the time the conference season started, the rotation was shortened and he was the odd man out. Basically, it just wasn't necessary for him to play the minutes as you had the necessary personnel already in place.

This roster was set in a way that Glaze and Manning would be getting significant playing time their junior and senior years after the graduation of Cody and Cory. And that is exactly what is going to happen. It is a testament to how deep the roster is that we haven't had a huge body of work with which to judge Manning. He has had a chance to work within this system, practice with the team and get some minutes (if not many) on the court these past two years. I'd trust giving him regular minutes next season over a freshman or even a JUCO transfer.