'Raising the Bar at Saint Louis U.'

[bonwich]

How about securing a head coach that will ensure we can have seasons similar to this with at least some modicum of consistency, instead of going on a run once-per-decade, some decades?

I believe we've now gone on two runs in two years, and we certainly have as good of a returning nucleus as I can recall.

It's somewhat ironic that anyone believes that we're not taking the most thoughtful, most rational steps to "securing a head coach," because, again, the most recent data point we have is that we went out and secured not just a great coach, but a coach that no one even thought was available.

[hsmith19]

Well, for starters, for the past two years, we went further in the NCAA tournament than they did....

And that very significant distinction between our disappointment and the Tigers' last year somehow didn't wind up in McKernan's article. If the Bills had lost to New Mexico state, his "discussion starter" would at least have been valid on its face. But problem is, we beat New Mexico State by 20 points...

This year was a disappointment, but the constant need to compare us to Mizzou at every turn is annoying. Especially when, in this case, the comparison doesn't make sense on really any level. We play in the same state and both were upset in the tourney. That's pretty much where the similarities end.

[slufanskip]

Gosh, 2 years. Wow.

Yes we did. However, we play in the A10, we've been to the tourney 5 times in over the last quarter century.

Mizzou plays in the SEC and the Big 12 before that, they have a lot more money to spend and along with that come advantages we just don't have.

I'm not saying the expectations for SLU shouldn't be raised, in fact I've been saying the oposite quite strongly. However, it's a process that will take time.

I believe we should have expectations that we continue to move forward to a place where 1 win in the NCAA tourney is a disapointment, but to think we are there now is just silly.

[jimmy two times]

That first sentence is an absolute insult to every member of this team. They lost their coach. He died. They played without their best player and senior leader for half the season.

And you say they "checkout and disappear when things aren't going their way". That is pathetic.

Perhaps I shouldn't have wrote it in the regard that it is a typical characteristic of them as people or in most basketball games because I did not mean it that way.

But that is what happened in the NCAA tournament and it was a basketball comment, not a personal one. Them losing RM and Mitchell and their regular season success (all well documented and the accolades well deserved) has nothing to do with the failure against Oregon.

[slufanskip]

That article was completely spot on. Trying to blame Oregon's hot three point shooting as a statistical anomaly is a cop out and the team needs to realize they got completely outplayed and out coached.

If JJ, RL and DE are sitting at Vito's right now saying anything along the lines of 'we played our game, nothing we could do about Oregon's three point shooting, that will never happen again' then we have big problems for next year. That's not to put down all of the accomplishments they had this season, which were significant and they gave us a great run, but the fact remains they shrank from the moment on the biggest stage they've been on yet.

We have too many guys that completely disappear and check out as soon as things aren't going their way. That has to change, because this team can and should do better. We all believe in them, but improvement starts with being honest with yourself about why you lost and belaboring the "3-21" and "8-11" over and over is going to get you nowhere.

Kudos to the author. Couldn't have captured my sentiments any better.

8-11 and 3-21 are why we lost the game. Do the math.

We had won how many consecutive games against ranked opponents? Teams with guys that completely disappear and check out when things aren't going their way usually do win conference regular season and tourney championships.

[AMDG]

I'm not saying the expectations for SLU shouldn't be raised, in fact I've been saying the oposite quite strongly. However, it's a process that will take time.

I believe we should have expectations that we continue to move forward to a place where 1 win in the NCAA tourney is a disapointment, but to think we are there now is just silly.

How long should it take to expect to make it to the second week of the tournament when we are a conference champion? We are all disappointed because we dam well know we should still be playing in this tournament. The time is now. Raise your expectations or get season tickets to SIUE.

[almaman]

To a "lesser" opponent.

quotation marks are not I think the lesser team jury is out til at least Friday. They were in top 20 til they lost a few. They're still playing and they're hot. I didn't want to say anything day of game but when they took the lead I said it's over. They looked pretty fckn good to me when they won first game and looked killer against us. I think we stank too but we'd of had our hands full even if we played better. I have to chuckle how we all talk about the results of different elements of a game and ? good or bad as if it all could of gone different. if Ducks were 0 for 11 from 3 points our brilliant defense held them from taking their avg 15 3 pointers and we made them miss all 11. they make 5 of them and we were allowing them to take the 3 and we got killed. after they made some we should have adjusted et al. Conversely on offense we sucked from 3 but I thought most were as good of shots to have taken as I would of had we made them. If we had hit half of them we would of won and there would not be anyone saying who do they think they are shooting all those 3's. They beat us plain and simple. Seems to hurt more when it's unexpected I guess.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I agree with most of what this Mizzou grad is saying re SLU. The days of SLU being the Little Engine that Could have to be over. SLU must strive to take the next step. SLU can do it.

i was at the games in San Jose. Oregon is better than a 12 seed, probably a 7-9, but is not as good as SLU. SLU probably beats Oregon 7 out of 10 times, at least outside the Pacific Time Zone.

The NCAA embedded SLU into the de facto Pac-12 Invitational. i don't think it was so much the crowd. I didn't think the Pac-12 Solidarity (Axis of Evil) between Oregon and Cal was a factor. However, SLU has rarely played well on the West Coast. The Baseball Cardinals struggle mightily at AT&T Park, year after year.

It is just different here. The time is different, two hours behind St. Louis. The people are different.

The NCAA seeded this thing so Oregon and Cal would be in San Jose to fill the seats. An argument can be made that Cal, with its below the NCAA cutoff line RPI should not have even been in the NCAA Tournament at all. Per the RPI, Cal was the 2nd team out. Yet the NCAA gifted Cal 2 de facto home games. And Oregon, by West (Left) Coast standards, in Eugene, is not that far away. Oregon has a number of California students, which means Oregon has a number of Bay Area parents, and a lot of Bay Area alumni.

The real culprit, however, was Dana Altman switching to that zone defense at the under 16 timeout in the first half. SLU could simply not figure out the Oregon zone defense(s), and that lasted the rest of the first half. SLU led at one point 7-2, and led 15-14. Oregon led 35-19 at halftime; those are 33-12 and 21-4 runs. Ballgame.

[majerus mojo]

From the article he wrote prior to this one:

"I’ll go to my grave saying the 2012 Missouri Tigers played a good game when they were stunned by Norfolk State. They just ran into a team that couldn’t miss."

Well, SLU actually ran into an Oregon team who couldn't miss (sorry if you believe this is a cop out, but no one else in the tournament is shooting 73% from 3... You know how I know this? Because it was the highest three-point shooting percentage for any team in the NCAA Tournament since 1994.)... so we should all just forget the last 3 months and start dumping on them immediately... or it means we're not big time enough yet, yanno, like Mizzou is. Give me a break.

[AMDG]

8-11 and 3-21 are why we lost the game. Do the math.

We had won how many consecutive games against ranked opponents? Teams with guys that completely disappear and check out when things aren't going their way usually do win conference regular season and tourney championships.

I agree 3-21 is part of the problem. but 7-9 is too. Our guards took 9 layups and made 7 of them. They were 2 for only 2 in the first half. When that second layup was made, we were down a point. We didn't take another attempt at a layup by a guard until 19:53 left in the second half when we were down 16 points. Yet Crews felt it wise to let our team continue taking jump shot after jump shot.

[slufanskip]

How long should it take to expect to make it to the second week of the tournament when we are a conference champion? We are all disappointed because we dam well know we should still be playing in this tournament. The time is now. Raise your expectations or get season tickets to SIUE.

There you go.

And to be clear, neither your expectations or mine are of any relevance to what happens going forward.

I'm disapointed in the results of the game, but at the same time believe a lot of very good things happened this year. I hope we make this year a building block, not something to shoot for.

[jimmy two times]

8-11 and 3-21 are why we lost the game. Do the math.

We had won how many consecutive games against ranked opponents? Teams with guys that completely disappear and check out when things aren't going their way usually do win conference regular season and tourney championships.

Look, I just don't think the right approach to the loss is talking about some random statistical event like it was a bad beat in poker or something. Why is it a math problem? Regardless of Oregon's atypical hot shooting, we got outplayed in just about every facet of the game and unfortunately, we got blown out. It was devastating. It doesn't detract form the regular season accomplishments, but like it or not, the tournament is THE goal. It isn't regular season titles, as nice as they may be.

And I do think some of the guys checked out, got frustrated, flustered and didn't rise to the occasion. What is the harm in saying that (admitting I originally said it a bit too harshly...but if you have issue with that, I cringe to think of what you would have thought of my comments on Saturday night).

I love this team and I want the best for these guys, but my fear is that if they aren't honest with themselves about why they lost, they won't take the next step, which in my mind is making the second weekend of the tournament.

[hsmith19]

The Baseball Cardinals struggle mightily at AT&T Park, year after year.

Not to divert the discussion at hand, but this is really not true. Over the last five regular seasons, the Cardinals are 6-8 at AT&T Park. They also won a road game there in the playoffs last year. That's hardly "struggling mightily" for a visiting team, considering the Giants have been pretty damned decent over that stretch (two World Series titles, in fact). Then there's the matter of the Billikens' regular season tournament wins in California last year. I agree that getting shipped to San Jose was not ideal for SLU this year, but color me unconvinced that the West Coast and/or SF Bay area has some kind of strange hex over St. Louis teams in general.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Not to divert the discussion at hand, but this is really not true. Over the last five regular seasons, the Cardinals are 6-8 at AT&T Park. They also won a road game there in the playoffs last year. That's hardly "struggling mightily" for a visiting team, considering the Giants have been pretty damned decent over that stretch (two World Series titles, in fact). Then there's the matter of the Billikens' regular season tournament wins in California last year. I agree that getting shipped to San Jose was not ideal for SLU this year, but color me unconvinced that the West Coast and/or SF Bay area has some kind of strange hex over St. Louis teams in general.

How have the Rams done at Candlestick?

[Bobby Metzinger]

nm

[AMDG]

And to be clear, neither your expectations or mine are of any relevance to what happens going forward.

Whose expectations are more relevant than the program's biggest followers? This isn't intramural basketball. They aren't out there to have fun. I pray that Biondi/May don't agree with that, because if they do, we're doomed.

[slufanskip]

I agree 3-21 is part of the problem. but 7-9 is too. Our guards took 9 layups and made 7 of them. They were 2 for only 2 in the first half. When that second layup was made, we were down a point. We didn't take another attempt at a layup by a guard until 19:53 left in the second half when we were down 16 points. Yet Crews felt it wise to let our team continue taking jump shot after jump shot.

I'll keep saying it and anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect has never played sports and traveled to do it.

5 games in 8 days with 3000+ miles of travel in between. Excuses are silly, but to believe there aren't reasons and factors that play into a teams success in a given game is even sillier. This was a big one. Oregon had an extra days rest, they finished their conference tourney Sat in Vegas I believe. No long travel, no time zone changes. It matters more than is being discussed.

[AMDG]

I'll keep saying it and anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect has never played sports and traveled to do it.

5 games in 8 days with 3000+ miles of travel in between. Excuses are silly, but to believe there aren't reasons and factors that play into a teams success in a given game is even sillier. This was a big one. Oregon had an extra days rest, they finished their conference tourney Sat in Vegas I believe. No long travel, no time zone changes. It matters more than is being discussed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

[jimmy two times]

I'll keep saying it and anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect has never played sports and traveled to do it.

5 games in 8 days with 3000+ miles of travel in between. Excuses are silly, but to believe there aren't reasons and factors that play into a teams success in a given game is even sillier. This was a big one. Oregon had an extra days rest, they finished their conference tourney Sat in Vegas I believe. No long travel, no time zone changes. It matters more than is being discussed.

Sure, but a lot of teams in the tournament could make very similar claims.

[jimmy two times]

I'll keep saying it and anyone who thinks it didn't have an effect has never played sports and traveled to do it.

5 games in 8 days with 3000+ miles of travel in between. Excuses are silly, but to believe there aren't reasons and factors that play into a teams success in a given game is even sillier. This was a big one. Oregon had an extra days rest, they finished their conference tourney Sat in Vegas I believe. No long travel, no time zone changes. It matters more than is being discussed.

Was the game over before it started because of the travel and the extra days rest?

[Littlebill]

How long should it take to expect to make it to the second week of the tournament when we are a conference champion? We are all disappointed because we dam well know we should still be playing in this tournament. The time is now. Raise your expectations or get season tickets to SIUE.

+1 exactly. With success comes raised expectations. It's as simple as that

[sludevil]

The article is spot-on. Of course you should be disappointed. I mean, this was arguably the best season SLU has ever had - and, even then, they could only muster a single victory in the NCAA tournament. And they weren't even competitive in their loss.

The A10 titles are nice. But, in the end, they don't mean a whole lot. The NCAA tournament is the big ticket. Win in the tournament or be relegated to mediocrity/irrelevance. And, in a year when SLU had its best seeding ever in the tournament and was coming off a fantastic regular reason, they could only beat an awful New Mexico State squad before being exposed by an average-above average major conference team. These are grounds for disappointment, not passive acceptance. If we ever want to be competitive with the major conferences - or with Georgetown et al. in the New Big East - we need to expect more from our team.

[jimmy two times]

Whose expectations are more relevant than the program's biggest followers? This isn't intramural basketball. They aren't out there to have fun. I pray that Biondi/May don't agree with that, because if they do, we're doomed.

Bingo.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Not to divert the discussion at hand, but this is really not true. Over the last five regular seasons, the Cardinals are 6-8 at AT&T Park. They also won a road game there in the playoffs last year. That's hardly "struggling mightily" for a visiting team, considering the Giants have been pretty damned decent over that stretch (two World Series titles, in fact). Then there's the matter of the Billikens' regular season tournament wins in California last year. I agree that getting shipped to San Jose was not ideal for SLU this year, but color me unconvinced that the West Coast and/or SF Bay area has some kind of strange hex over St. Louis teams in general.

OT

Trust me, it is very true. The Cardinals have struggled here. Pujols didn't hit much here, would hit majestic drives that landed harmlessly in the CF's glove with that ridiculous 421 feet to deep right center (Triple's Alley). At one point, I remember Pujols had a .238 career batting average vs. SF.

I have been at most of the games. I manage a set of Giants season tickets, but I am a big Cardinal fan, having grown up in Quincy, IL. I have been a Cardinal fan my whole life. For me the Giants are right up there with the Cubs and the now evil teams de jure, Cincinnati and Milwaukee. I have to deal with Giants fans on an almost daily basis during Baseball season. To think that team has won 2 of the last 3 World Series, wearing the colors of Halloween, makes me think sometimes that we have entered some type of alternative universe. Marco Scutaro?

If you want, go back farther to when AT&T Park first opened, in 1999. I did the study last year, and the Cards are quite a few games under .500. It wasn't much better at Candlestick Park.

As for the NLCS, I was at all 4 games here, 3 of them losses, including the painful Game 7.

I am not talking about a hex. Especially for Baseball, the weather is radically different, especially for night games. It is cold in the summer in SF. Hitters don't hit. The Giants win a lot of low scoring, close games. AT&T Park is a pitchers' park and a nightmare for teams that rely on power and home runs. That's why the Giants have trouble signing fee agent hitters. They don't want to hit fly ball outs.

But tomorrow is another day!

[majerus mojo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality

Oh, this could be fun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance

Sure, but a lot of teams in the tournament could make very similar claims.

Did a lot of teams go up against a squad that had the best shooting performance in 19 tournaments? It can't all be bad defense.