An interesting thread on the A10 Forum

[STLfan]

http://www.basketballboards.net/forum/show...4416&forumid=79

It is interesting to see what some of our new conference members think about st. louis in this thread ranking the A10. Most have us in the upper half of the new conference but there are some who are going to be surprised when we get there. For example,

"1. Xavier - finally got past the 2nd round curse

2. St. Joe - it blows my mind how someone could not rank them 1 or 2.

3. Dayton - consistent recently but Charlotte could pass them if they struggle next year.

4. Charlotte - I can't believe Iti thinks he is ready for the NBA

5. Temple - falling fast and could be passed by 3 teams after next year, but only 3 years removed from an elite 8.

6. Rhode Is. - do they have enough for an NCAA or will they settle for an NIT. Toss-up between UR and URI

7. Richmond - tough to lose skrocki and dobbins the same year

8. GW - expecting an NCAA next year

9. St. Louis - seems to hover around .500 a lot

10. UMass - would Lappas still be there if he didn't have freeman?

11. St. Bonn - hopefully they can return to pre-scandal competiveness in next two years

12. Lasalle - surely the dynamic duo can carry them to the NIT next year, can't they?

13. Duq - I'm not sure what the dukes have coming back

14. Fordham - the only direction is up"

Just my opinon but I think we will fair a little better then 9th out of 14 in the new A10. My quess is in our first year we will finish somewhere in the top 5.

[SluSignGuy]

Little confused. GW by this guy is expected a NCAA year, but 8th in the A-10???

GW has almost every player returning (only one leaving didn't contribute a whole bunch), and we were a very young team this year, and we made the NIT. Very comparable to where SLU is right now. I don't think our coach is that great of a bench coach, but he is a recruiter.

I expect GW to be top 4 this year in A-10.

Steve

[billiken_roy]

steve is starting to go. i wondered how long it would take. it's ok steve. gw is now your home. :-)

[Taj79]

We were .500 that is true but that included, for the most part, two games against the likes of Marquette, Cincy and Louisville. I would say we were very comparable with Charlotte ... its just perception that gets Charlotte ahead of us right now.

My real belief on the difference in the A10 versus CWHO (as we KNEW it) is that you can win with one player in the A10; two can make you quite dominant. I offer Xavier with Sato and Chalmers and St. Joes with West and Nelson as testimony. Also a nice team with chemistry and a home court (Dayton) can do as well also.

If ... and this is always the qualifier, isn't it ...... if Liddell reups, and Polk, Meyer, and Lisch are as quality as we believe them to be .... and the secondary parts compliment well (Alexander, Newbourne, Husak, Ivan, etc.) I think we can do real well year-in and year-out. Getting up to play on the road at places like Duquesne, Fordham, Rhode Island and GW might be tougher sells that what we were used to but so be it.

I see the A10 as a guard-oriented league. Which makes those mentioned above all the more important. Sean Finn was a "domianting" center in the A10 the last few years. Sean Finn! SEAN FINN!!!!! Now there's a guy who had trouble walking AND chewing gum at the same time for his first three years in a UDee uni.

Us and Charlotte up the quality of that league. Some dead weight might have to go.

[RecCenterRat]

Do you think it's a worthy goal to win the A10 in our first year?

There is no dominant team in this conference, no constant force. These teams are going to cycle and we look to be strong coming in.

[jjray]

>Do you think it's a worthy goal to win the A10 in our first

>year?

>

>There is no dominant team in this conference, no constant

>force. These teams are going to cycle and we look to be

>strong coming in.

I think you are dis'n Xavier and St. Joe's. SLU's program isn't at their level yet. We haven't been to the NCAAs in how many years?

I have every confidence in the direction that our program is heading and wish to dream big .... but it's a bit early to start trash talking Xavier and St. Joe's.

[billiken_roy]

i totally disagree. while i am not ready to proclaim we will win the a-10 championship their first year in the conference, there is no doubt as taj points out that the a-10 is a league that can be dominated with just a player or two of greatness. st joes two studs are gone as are chalmers and sato at xaiver. in two years, slu has polk with a year under his belt and an impressive freshman class of liddell and lisch. i personally will be disappointed if we are not at the very least a top 5 team immediately in the a-10 and i bet that charlotte is right with us.

[Billiken Law]

>>Do you think it's a worthy goal to win the A10 in our first

>>year?

>>

>>There is no dominant team in this conference, no constant

>>force. These teams are going to cycle and we look to be

>>strong coming in.

>

>I think you are dis'n Xavier and St. Joe's. SLU's program

>isn't at their level yet. We haven't been to the NCAAs in

>how many years?

>

>I have every confidence in the direction that our program is

>heading and wish to dream big .... but it's a bit early to

>start trash talking Xavier and St. Joe's.

I think you're giving a little too much credit to St. Joe's. It's a nice program and all but were carried by a once-in-a-lifetime player in Jameer Nelson. I don't think they can sustain their past success. I'd rate Dayton over St. Joe's.

[slu72]

I think it should be our goal every year and am sure UB feels that way as well. Dayton and XU have proven to be year in year out winners. St. Joe's will probably build under Martelli, good coach, so they'll be tough. Temple, U-Mass, and Rhody will rebound but to what extent? As long as Lutz is at Charlotte, they'll always be tough. Same for us with UB. No doubt the addition of SLU and Charlotte has upgraded the A-10. We should fare better than in CUSA as we don't have UL, UC, Messphis, etc to contend with every year, those three just reload not rebuild. Best guess if A-10 can get 4 teams a year dance invites our goal should be to be one of them at least every 2 of 3 years. Also, our out of conference scheduling becomes more critical when we join. Gone are the days of 3 games against patsies. I still think down the road however, the Big East will implode, and we'll be looking at a new conference in about 3-4 years. No way is football going to coexist with hoops on a long term basis.

[Basketbill]

just interested, would you say the same about Wade?? and Marquette. St. Joe has been tickling the top 25 for years if I recall correctly, not just the last two .

[jjray]

>>i personally will be disappointed if we are not at the very least a top 5 team immediately in the a-10 and i bet that charlotte is right with us.<<

I likewise shall be disappointed if we are not top 5 in the A10 our first year. St. Joe's and Xavier are the class of this league, no need to bad mouth them before we even show up. Our Billiken teams of the last 5 years can not be considered equals of the St. Joe's and Xavier squads of the last 5 years IMHO. The results tell the tale. Now, as to the future, I think ours looks bright and, for the sake of our new league, I hope Xavier and St. Joe's continue to be tough competitors.

Let's wait to beat our chest until after we have accomplished something with our new recruits.

[willie]

I think we will be very competitive immediately but it may take a year of college ball for Tommie and Kevin to excell. My early prediction is we will be in the top 3 in Polks junior year.

[RecCenterRat]

Xavier and St Joseph's are losing most of their talent .. Delonte West declared for the draft, Nelson is gone, Sato and Chalmers are gone as well.

There is a good chance that there will be new teams atop that conference when we arrive. I believe that winning the conference is a believable goal. I agree that we need to see the recruits play, but I'm just proposing a goal, not something that we absolutely must accomplish.

I also think that with our akward style of play, the A10 teams will need to adjust to us, not us to them.

[tseugnekillib]

I saw 10 of the 12 Atlantic10 teams play this past March. St. Joes and Xavier were very talented. GWU and Richmond also impressive. However, I saw nothing that scared me. Road games in the A10 will be difficult, as most road games usually are. It will take SLU and Charlotte a few years to get comfortable with the A10 refs. All in all, we will compete from the get-go. Regardless of the conference, good recruiting is the key.

[Billiken Law]

>just interested, would you say the same about Wade?? and

>Marquette. St. Joe has been tickling the top 25 for years

>if I recall correctly, not just the last two .

St. Joe's made the tourney in 1997, then not again until 2001 when they had Nelson and Marvin O'Connor (2nd round loss to Stanford, I think), then they missed in 02, lost in the first round in 03 and we all know about their run in 04. Marquette has accomplished much more pre-Wade. Remember, MU is a school who fired a coach for going 14-15.

Besides, St. Joe's facilities are going to be a major hinderance to them sustaining the success they achieved over the past few years.

[xudash]

A few observations:

Charlotte and SLU should enter the A10 as upper echelon members.

Charlotte appears to be more familiar to most A10 fans than SLU, but you know and I know that SLU's program firepower will be felt soon enough in the league, especially once you bring your new building online.

With that said, it's clear that some of you are underestimating what it's like to get through the A10 regular season. So, paraphrasing, it sounds like it's down to getting " a couple outstanding players" and we'll mop the thing up?

The A10 put four into the tournament and should have gone 4-0 in the first round. After getting its act together, Xavier ran Louisville off the court in the first round when Louisville was allegedly back to full strength. At any rate, the A10 had two teams make it to the round of 8, and both combined were within 5 points of the Final 4.

I'm not here to flame, so please don't take these comments in that vain, it's more about providing some perspective because some of you only appear to be thinking about SLU and what SLU has coming in from a recruiting standpoint and how hard it was for SLU to bang heads with Louisville, UC, Memphis, etc.

So Sato and Chalmers are gone at X. So what? Brian Thornton, an all SEC Freshman transfer from Vanderbilt, Josh Duncan, who Xavier outrecruited Kentucky - yes you read it right, Kentucky - for and Churchill Odia (if the Visa mess gets cleared up) are on their way in with 3 returning starters (one Junior to be (Finn) and two Sophs to be (Cage and Doellman), joining Boubacar Coly, Stanley Burrell and others. Xavier is at the reload level, not the rebuild level.

And as long as Martelli stays at St. Joe's, Hawk Hill will rock on. Dayton under Gregory will be solid. Richmond, URI and GW are getting stronger.

The A10 continues to come back, held down only be dead wood like LaSalle, Duquesne, Fordham and SBU, all of which happen to be trying to get better. UMass and Temple are the two programs that are in a steep dive and not too far from crashing, especially on the eve of Charlotte and SLU's entry.

[billiken_roy]

and there are those that said that we wouldnt form new rivals in a league so far away.

[jjray]

Thanks for dropping by with the comments xudash. All of us in Billiken nation look forward to bumping heads again with Xavier. Glad to hear the Xmen are going to quickly reload.

[Box and Won]

Be careful, the last guy who claimed that his team was reloading as opposed to rebuilding took a lot of heat here!

Just kidding. XU looks solid for years to come.

I was impressed with Cage and Doellman last season. Doellman reminds me a bit of Steve Novak, but perhaps with more athleticism.

I can't wait to start playing XU again so that we can rekindle the old rivalry!

[Basketbill]

Pre wade and Crean what had marquette accomplished...CUSA championship, ncaa berth ....my point in asking you the question was to point out Your bias. St. Joe's Is every bit as good as a program as Marquette. Facilities may be a problem but winning breed money....Martelli is a good coach, as is crean and he can recruit. Beside the rest of St. Joe team was not a bunch of bench warmers.

[aj_arete]

nm

[Billiken Law]

>Pre wade and Crean what had marquette accomplished...CUSA

>championship, ncaa berth ....my point in asking you the

>question was to point out Your bias. St. Joe's Is every bit

>as good as a program as Marquette. Facilities may be a

>problem but winning breed money....Martelli is a good coach,

>as is crean and he can recruit. Beside the rest of St. Joe

>team was not a bunch of bench warmers.

Outside of Nelson and West nobody on that St. Joe's team will sniff the NBA.

What exactly did St. Joe's do during the 80's and 90's before 1997? After Jack Ramsey left and before Martelli they were pretty much an afterthought, making the NCAA's only 4 times since 1986. You're making St. Joe's out to be some sort of traditional powerhouse, which they are not. Since Ramsey lefI think SLU has proven themselves as a more consistant contender than St. Joe's has. I have absolutely no animous towards St. Joe's, in fact I almost did my undergrad work there (got into their 5 year Psych M.A. program) and I don't know how Marquette got dragged into this as my original point was that Dayton and Xavier were more likely to be the consistant powers in the A-10 and I didn't think St. Joe's could sustain this past season's success.

St. Joe's is a solid program, but they don't have the ability to keep up what they did this past season.

Since you insist on making Marquette the measuring stick for St. Joe's, everyone knows about the McGuire days and the 60's and 70's (3rd winningest program of the decade behind UCLA and Kentucky, 1974 NCAA finals, 1977 Champs, a few Elite 8 appearances), in the 80's they went to the post season every year until 1987, returned to the NIT in 1992 and returned to the NCAA in 1993, won the GMC in 1994 with a Sweet 16 berth, NIT finals in 1996, NCAA in 96, CUSA tourney title in 1997, NIT quarters in 1998, NIT in 2000, CUSA title and Final Four in 2003, NIT quarters in 2004. 23 NCAA appearances, 14 NIT appearances all-time.

[Basketbill]

You said:

"I think you're giving a little too much credit to St. Joe's. It's a nice program and all but were carried by a once-in-a-lifetime player in Jameer Nelson. I don't think they can sustain their past success."

My point is that you are saying St. Joe's glass is half empty and Marquettes is half full. Trying to go bakc to Mcguire days to justify saying Marquette is superior is a little bit of a stretch. Wade and Crean have done for Marquette what Nelson and Martelli have done for St. Joes. They are not that different to simply dismiss them as a flash in the pan the next few seasons will tell.

Perspective is what I am trying to give you for instance a .300 hitter in baseball is better than a 250 hitter right. But how much better. Over a season as little as a hit per week....a stinking seeing eye grounder a wee or less perhaps a few sacrifices and some walks along with fewer hits, but not a whole lot to crow about....I have not gone back to St Joe's record to research this, because that does not matter, it is perspective I think it is a mistake to say they are a flash in the pan, perhaps as it would have been to say Marquette was after Wade left.

[SluSignGuy]

http://gwsports.collegesports.com/sports/m...bbs_karl00.html

[TheA_Bomb]

It is not chest beating to say your goal is to win your conference. Our goal every year should be to win our conferernce. It is feasible for us to win in the A10. Yes XU, DU, SJU and Char will be tough. I like it that GW and UR are improving. We've been able to ball with DU and Char in recent years why should we not remain competitive with them. We should be in the top 4 our 1st year in the A10.