A10 Tournament Moving...

[Bay Area Billiken]

Did any of this put Forham in the top 100 in terms of attendance? 150? 200?

This is doing very little to persuade me that people care about Fordham. I'm more interested in the fact that Central Missouri had better attendance than Fordham 2 years ago. I'll admit that I'm not sure if any of the NY Knicks announcers went to any Central Missouri games. However, the fact that a couple of local media types showing up at 1 game has convinced me that Fordham is America's team. I guess the fact that the Knicks held an open practice there means that Fordham is really important and not that they were looking for a small building that was suitable for the occasion.

This has gotten absolutely silly. I give up! Fordham is clearly the next Kentucky! I think Ashley Judd will be at all of there games this year!

Please put me in touch with the coach. I'd love to meet him for lunch the next time I'm in NYC!

You should give up. It is past time.

The Knicks could have picked from a muliplicity of gyms to hold a practice. They were doing an outreach to Fordham. As I recall, their cheerleaders were also present.

And no, I don't think the Knicks' announcer went to Central Missouri games, although anything is possible. But as former Billiken Dick Missavage often said, "What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?"

[Bay Area Billiken]

Did any of this put Forham in the top 100 in terms of attendance? 150? 200?

This is doing very little to persuade me that people care about Fordham. I'm more interested in the fact that Central Missouri had better attendance than Fordham 2 years ago. I'll admit that I'm not sure if any of the NY Knicks announcers went to any Central Missouri games. However, the fact that a couple of local media types showing up at 1 game has convinced me that Fordham is America's team. I guess the fact that the Knicks held an open practice there means that Fordham is really important and not that they were looking for a small building that was suitable for the occasion.

This has gotten absolutely silly. I give up! Fordham is clearly the next Kentucky! I think Ashley Judd will be at all of their games this year!

Please put me in touch with the coach. I'd love to meet him for lunch the next time I'm in NYC!

The point in this is that Fordham brings something to the A-10 table, and should not be so quickly dismissed. The Fordham basketball program is being built. I believe Fordham finally has a good coach to advance the process.

The fact that the A-10 is moving its tournament to New York City is important.

It is good for the entire A-10 to have a presence in New York City, the media capital of the world.

[superslu]

You should give up. It is past time.

What have you done to prove that Fordham is worth a sh!t in basketball? This is the most pathetic argument I've ever read. One win over St. Johns with a local announcer on hand doesn't change the fact that they were outdrawn by Central MO 2 years ago. Do yo ucare to address that?

BTW, you were right about Grawer and year 4. I was off by 1 in my recollection. Not that it has anything to do with Fordham.

[superslu]

The point in this is that Fordham brings something to the A-10 table, and should not be so quickly dismissed. The Fordham basketball program is being built. I believe Fordham finally has a good coach to advance the process.

The fact that the A-10 is moving its tournament to New York City is important.

It is good for the entire A-10 to have a presence in New York City, the media capital of the world.

I don't dispute that being in NYC is good for the A10. Although it will ultimatley fall behind the Big East and the ACC if they decide to go there, it's still better than AC.

Playing the A10 tourney in NYC has little to do with Fordham. I think anybody can see that.

Now will you please give up your Fordham is awesome because Tom Brokaw spent an hour there line?

[For-DaLove]

Fordham? Am I dreaming?

[Bay Area Billiken]

I am going to have to agree with kshoe and say that you have some rose-colored glasses on when looking at Fordham. Perhaps you just like to be an eternal optimist, which is pretty admirable. But I also think that if your son did not attend Fordham you would hardly be banging the drum for them so vehemently.

I just don't see what you are seeing with Fordham. While I can see why you might see them as a sleeping giant due to their location in NYC, this is a program that has a total of one winning season since joining the A10 in 1995-96, with 9 of those seasons ending with them having single-digit win totals.

They don't even have that much tradition or history to hang their hats on. I guess you can point to the Digger Phelps season of 1970-71. However, he coached just that one season and immediately bolted for Notre Dame, and Fordham slipped right back into obscurity. They have had only one other tourney appearance since then, when they were the auto-bid out of the Patriot League in 1991-92.

Some teams are just made to be doormats in basketball. Fordham happens to be one of them. This isn't to take anything away from them as a university, as they are top notch and do have some rather famous alum. But there a lot of great universities out there that have crappy sports programs.

Ultimately, Fordham is a good school that provides the A-10 and SLU with a presence in New York City.

Have you ever been to Rose Hill Gym? The program is rebounding from a long dry spell. It did have a winning season in recent times when Bryant Dunston was there. But there are a lot of basketball banners hanging from those rafters, enough to fill the west side of the old gym. So Fordham has won in the past in basketball, as evidenced by all those banners. There are NCAA, NIT, and conference championship banners up there.

As I've said, I think Coach Pecora is a good one. Rich Grawer, the savior of Billiken Basketball as we know it, did not have a winning season until his 4th year in 1985-86, and Pecora is starting Year 2. SLU's next previous winning season was in the second to last year of Bob Polk's tenure, 1972-73. SLU had 12 consecutive losing seasons from the 1973-74 season through the 1984-85 season. Regrettably, I was at SLU for 7 of them.

And please note, my moniker is Bay Area Billiken, not Bay Area Ram, make no mistake about that. When my son chose Fordham, I told him we were going to beat Fordham all 4 years he was there, ... and we did. Thank goodness.

[For-DaLove]

Ultimately, Fordham is a good school that provides the A-10 and SLU with a presence in New York City.

Have you ever been to Rose Hill Gym? The program is rebounding from a long dry spell. It did have a winning season in recent times when Bryant Dunston was there. But there are a lot of basketball banners hanging from those rafters, enough to fill the west side of the old gym. So Fordham has won in the past in basketball, as evidenced by all those banners. There are NCAA, NIT, and conference championship banners up there.

As I've said, I think Coach Pecora is a good one. Rich Grawer, the savior of Billiken Basketball as we know it, did not have a winning season until his 4th year in 1985-86, and Pecora is starting Year 2. SLU's next previous winning season was in the second to last year of Bob Polk's tenure, 1972-73. SLU had 12 consecutive losing seasons from the 1973-74 season through the 1984-85 season. Regrettably, I was at SLU for 7 of them.

And please note, my moniker is Bay Area Billiken, not Bay Area Ram, make no mistake about that. When my son chose Fordham, I told him we were going to beat Fordham all 4 years he was there, ... and we did. Thank goodness.

Great school, really bad basketball program. It's too bad they'll never actually be apart of the tournament games in NYC.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Great school, really bad basketball program. It's too bad they'll never actually be apart of the tournament games in NYC.

Well hopefully, with the tournament in Brooklyn from 2013 through 2018, Fordham will be there during that time. I expect Fordham will. I'm expecting improvement this season, which will be Chris Gaston's Junior year.

Note that St. Bona and Duquesne were down not that long ago and have both advanced their programs. Do you really think the same cannot happen at Fordham? Of course, it can ... and will, in my opinion. I will be surprised if it doesn't.

[For-DaLove]

Well hopefully, with the tournament in Brooklyn from 2013 through 2018, Fordham will be there during that time. I expect Fordham will. I'm expecting improvement this season, which will be Chris Gaston's Junior year.

Note that St. Bona and Duquesne were down not that long ago and have both advanced their programs. Do you really think the same cannot happen at Fordham? Of course, it can ... and will, in my opinion. I will be surprised if it doesn't.

I truly hope that they turn the program around. 1-31 in the A10 over the past 2 seasons just doesn't bode too well.

[joe_davola]

NYC is the greatest city on earth....I can't wait to go see the Bills there in 2013.

+1....Need Mario to show us around.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I truly hope that they turn the program around. 1-31 in the A10 over the past 2 seasons just doesn't bode too well.

I'll give you that. But they say Rome was not built in a day. I think those last two seasons should really be discounted. I know they are in the books, that Bill Parcells says you are what your record is, etc. But two years ago Fordham was still saddled with Derek Whittenberg, who was relieved of his duties in the pre-conference part of the season after a bizarre post-game situation at cross-Bronx rival Manhattan. And last season, Tom Pecora was going into battle with 6 principal players. That's why that St. John's win was such an incredible upset. Fordham sent a totally outmanned team out there, was forced to switch to a soft zone in the second half for self-preservation, and somehow pulled off the most incredible of rallies to win that game.

Let's use an analogy from baseball. The 1962 NY Mets were 40-120; the 1969 NY Mets were World Series Champions. Closer to home, the 1998 St. Louis Rams were 4-12; the 1999 St. Louis Rams were Super Bowl Champions. Now I'm not saying Fordham is going to win the NCAA Tournament. But teams can rise from the abyss. Closest to home, this has happened in the history of our SLU Billikens.

[Cowboy]

i can honestly say that considering roy campanella and sandy koufax are no longer playing, there is nothing about brooklyn that interests me in the least. brooklyn. like in fordham brooklyn? we could probably play the games in the fordham gymnasium since my above comments are probably common for most of the a-10 fans. this is an incredible disappointment.

-jeez, how did Rick make this happen?

[HusakAttack]

we could have had the A10 tourney in Chaifetz if Porter was still here.

[bonwich]

we could have had the MVC Tourney in Chaifetz if we'd picked the right conference for us.

[RF1]

Fordham has been in the A-10 since the 1995-96 season and little has changed. They were on the bottom then and are on the bottom now and it has been that way most seasons. Fordham has yet to make a single post season appearance since joining the league. This includes the newer and less selective CBI and CIT tourneys as well as the NCAA and NIT. The Rams have had several different coaches as an A-10 member - Nick M, Bob Hill, Dereck Whittenburg, and now Tom Pecora. There were some glimmers of hope under previous coaches but they were never able to turn things around and got forced out. I am not so certain Pecora will be any different. One win over last season's very erratic St. John's team (had wins over big names such as Duke but lost at home to St. Bonaventure and at Fordham) does not make a turn around. Fordham has several impediments to becoming an A-10 power. It has a very small fanbase, antiquated facilities, gets little media, and is bascially lost trying to compete in such a large city with so many entertainment options. It may never be able to rise above these to become a consistent winner

[The Pelican]

we could have had the A10 tourney in Chaifetz if Porter was still here.

Where's Porter?

[JMM28]

You all have convinced me its a good move, maybe the conference can negotiate some decent travel deals for saint louis, dayton and x to make it a great move.

One would think it'd be a no brainer for the athletic department to offer a package to NYC for the tournament. Everybody bring your paystubs to Brooklyn.

[For-DaLove]

-jeez, how did Rick make this happen?

He was obviously being lazy on the recruiting trail

[TheBand]

Ok...Getting back on topic....

Per Timmerman:

Its a 5 year deal in Brooklyn with the A-10 Tournament.

1st Round games at campus sites eliminated...all 12 teams that qualify will be in Brooklyn for tournament

Folks in New York would likely be able to watch games at the Big East Tourney and A-10 Tourney at 2 venues on one day.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/basketball/college/article_18fd758a-e9ff-11e0-aca8-001a4bcf6878.html

My concern is that this building will seat 18,000 for hoops.... that is a very big venue for this league's tournament. There will be a lot of empty seats me thinks.

[MusicCityBilliken]

My concern is that this building will seat 18,000 for hoops.... that is a very big venue for this league's tournament. There will be a lot of empty seats me thinks.

That's a good point.

My hats off to the A10 for getting the Barclays. A brand new arena in the media capital of the world but this could be an embarrassment for the A10. I heard the ACC was considering the Barclays with the addition of the Cuse and Pitt.

Lets face it, Bay Area I admire your enthusiastic support of Fordham, but will they even make the tournament?

Will the Philly area programs support it? Even though Temple is good, I was never impressed with the fan support for the program. Now St Joe's, we better hope they are good because they will bring bodies if they are half decent.

Will the Midwest schools bring any fan support? Well, we all know the vest sweater crowd will show up regardless how the Flyers perform, Heck, they will show up for a game in Mongolia. What about X and us. If we are mediocre or bad, the usual 50-60, if we are having great season, maybe 500. X maybe about a 1000 fans.

The other schools (GW, Lasalle, Bonnies, Duq) maybe a 1000 or so.

I like it but I am little apprehensive.

[kwyjibo]

Will the Midwest schools bring any fan support? Well, we all vest sweater crowd will show up regardless how the Flyers perform, Heck, they will show up for a game in Mongolia. What up X and us. If we are mediocre or bad, the usual 50-60, if we are having great season, maybe 500. X? maybe about a 1000 fans.

The other schools (GW, Lasalle, Bonnies, Duq) maybe a 1000 or so.

I like it but I am little apprehensive.

I have been to the A-10 tourney in Atlantic City twice. Your estimates are way off from the times I was there (first two days both times). Xavier fans were there both times in force (easily over 1000 for the first two days meaning they were 25% of the place) and had the biggest presence for early rounds (Philly people may have come later) . There were decent crowds from St. Joe's and Temple (Temple had no one there the first year when they were bad) but I only would have guessed a few hundred from LaSalle. Rhode Island had many fans and so did UMass but again only a few hundred. UMass will put several thousand fans in New York if they are good but only a few hundred if they are a 8-12 seed). Rhodey will be similar but maybe a few less.

GW probably had over 1000 both times I went as well. This is the question I have; they were one of the best supported teams in AC but what about NY (I suspect they will bring people if good). Dayton also a decent amount of fans. SLU, SBU, RIchmond, etc. did not.

[Pistol]

I'd rather not fill Barclays Center than not fill Boardwalk Hall.

It will be easier to fly into NYC and not have to rent a car than to fly into Philly, rent a car, and drive another hour over to AC.

Hotels are expensive in both places. Better chance of finding a place to crash in NYC, though.

People who go to conference tournaments are already hoops junkies and can make a huge weekend out of seeing Big East and A10 games.

I'm not worried about the move and the potential empty seats. The A10 has stepped up and put itself in a position to draw more attendance, more money, and more viewers. Nice move given what's going on in college sports right now.

[Bay Area Billiken]

[Lets face, Bay Area I admire your enthusiastic support of Fordham, but will they even make the tournament?]

Contrary to various opinions on this Board, the NY papers, including the well respected college basketball writer, Dick Weiss of the NY Daily News, see this move of the A-10 Tournament to Brooklyn as potential help for the Fordham program. And yes, given the reported 5 year deal, beginning in 2013, I do believe Fordham will make the tournament, as in at some point, hopefully sooner than later. It wasn't in antiquity that Fordham made the A-10 Tournament. Fordham was the #5 seed in the 2007 A-10 Tournament and the #6 seed in 2006. Fordham was the #12 seed, obviously not good, but was in the A-10 Tournament in 2008.

There has been talk for a while this year on the Fordham board (www.fordhamfans.com) that Fordham will play some regular season games at Barclays Center, including some reported foreshadowing type comments from Fordham President Father McShane himself.

For the naysayers that claim that Fordham's presence in the A-10 has nothing to do with this, that there is "little interest" in the Fordham program, note that Fordham Coach Tom Pecora was one of the two coaches (URI's Jim Baron was the other) at the A-10 press conference announcing this move. If there is "little interest" in Fordham, then Dick Weiss would not be mentioning Fordham, would he? And Coach Pecora would not have been invited to the horse and pony show to announce the move.

Putting Fordham aside, I maintain that this is a good move for the A-10 as a whole. I see little downside. I would expect that if attendance is really an issue, that options will be available, like a curtain, although I hope the A-10 does not have to resort to that.

I like the idea of the fans of the A-10 schools being in the same city and at the same time as their Big East counterparts. One would think that school administrators have the potential for crossing paths. Athletic relationships can be rekindled. At least that's my hope.

This is good publicity for the A-10. The news of this move has been in the New York Times, the New York Daily News, the New York Post, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, and the Newark Star-Ledger, as well as the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/tourney_bound_for_brooklyn_in_8urxlZrk9cmmDwXkTzT72N

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/2011/09/28/2011-09-28_a10_grows_on_brooklyn.html

Look what schools are in that NY Daily News photo. See those banners up in the rafters of historic Rose Hill Gym.

[MusicCityBilliken]

I have been to the A-10 tourney in Atlantic City twice. Your estimates are way off from the times I was there (first two days both times). Xavier fans were there both times in force (easily over 1000 for the first two days meaning they were 25% of the place) and had the biggest presence for early rounds (Philly people may have come later) . There were decent crowds from St. Joe's and Temple (Temple had no one there the first year when they were bad) but I only would have guessed a few hundred from LaSalle. Rhode Island had many fans and so did UMass but again only a few hundred. UMass will put several thousand fans in New York if they are good but only a few hundred if they are a 8-12 seed). Rhodey will be similar but maybe a few less.

GW probably had over 1000 both times I went as well. This is the question I have; they were one of the best supported teams in AC but what about NY (I suspect they will bring people if good). Dayton also a decent amount of fans. SLU, SBU, RIchmond, etc. did not.

I hope you are right. A10 needs about 13-14000 to make it look decent. I just don't know if the different school fan bases are up to it. Remember, hotels are not exactly cheap in Manhattan where you will probably have to stay.

I have a nephew that lives in the Heights. I already talked to him about crashing. Also, Bay Area, he is a Fordham grad, god help me

[Bay Area Billiken]

I hope you are right. A10 needs about 13-14000 to make it look decent. I just don't know if the different school fan bases are up to it. Remember, hotels are not exactly cheap in Manhattan where you will probably have to stay.

I have a nephew that lives in the Heights. I already talked to him about crashing. Also, Bay Area, he is a Fordham grad, god help me

Not quite, Tar Heel, I am a two time SLU graduate. But my son is a Fordham graduate, which makes me also want Fordham to succeed. Plus, Fordham is a fellow Jesuit school. And I see a lot of similarities between the Fordham basketball program now and the SLU program when I was at SLU. I thought then that Rich Grawer was going to ultimately succeed, and he did. He was from St. Louis and understood the landscape. Tom Pecora is from the New York area and understands the high school landscape there. I loved Pecora's halftime speech in the St. John's upset game. He told them that St. John's didn't want any of them (the players) and that St. John's didn't want him (the Coach) either.

There is some talk at fordhamfans.com about hotels and restaurants near this new Barclays Center in Brooklyn. We rode the subway once to this triangle where this new arena is being built. And the area does appear to have potential. It is said to be at the spot where Walter O'Malley wanted to build his new stadium for his Brooklyn Dodgers, which was never approved by Robert Moses, who wanted the Dodgers in Flushing Meadow Queens, the area where the Mets now play. And the rest is history.