Nolan Berry

[Bay Area Billiken]

The Mountain West is the only one of those with an argument. Their football and MBB programs have budgets that rival some of the biggest of the BCS.

For most of C-USA, absolutely not. The WAC? Um, no, not escaping the mid-major label in MBB (that's what we're talking about, right?) If the WAC isn't mid-major, neither is the MAC. You really want to argue that LaSalle, Fordham, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne etc. aren't mid-major? You can if you want, but no one who isn't on this message board or an A-10 homer will agree with you.

The only label that means anything is BCS versus non-BCS. That's where the money line is really drawn, it's what most people mean when they use the mid-major term, but most importantly it's a concrete definition that doesn't require interpretation. A few programs have crossed that "high-major" border despite being in lesser conferences (Xavier being one), but to claim that the entire A-10 is universally considered something other than mid-major is just plain false.

C-USA- Memphis, Houston, SMU- those are not mid-majors.

WAC- Read my post. The WAC was considered to not be a mid-major. But the soon to be WAC will be losing Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, and others. In some ways the new WAC won't even be as high as mid-major.

A-10- Xavier, Temple, Dayton, UMass, Rhode Island- those are not mid-major, and I would argue that with Rick Majerus as Coach and Chaifetz Arena, neither is SLU.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Question for those in St. Louis that have seen him play: How good is Nolan Berry? Is he the next Larry Bird? Doubtful. Is he similar to David Lee? If so, then yes, not getting him is a loss.

Is he more like a young Evan Pedersen, Mike Ivester, et al.?

If he is not a David Lee type, then his going to Butler seems more of a PR hit for SLU than that big of a loss.

Coach can always get another similar player from the Land Down Under ...

[The Pelican]

I thought that was when we still had Porter and were predicted to land Berry? We'll probably be around 200 in the updated rankings

What happened to Porter?

[slufan13]

What happened to Porter?

Porter who?

[For-DaLove]

Porter who?

Jones. He was a team manager. Real essential to making sure we had clean uniforms.

[Billikan]

Question for those in St. Louis that have seen him play: How good is Nolan Berry? Is he the next Larry Bird? Doubtful. Is he similar to David Lee? If so, then yes, not getting him is a loss.

Is he more like a young Evan Pedersen, Mike Ivester, et al.?

If he is not a David Lee type, then his going to Butler seems more of a PR hit for SLU than that big of a loss.

Coach can always get another similar player from the Land Down Under ...

I think the player who you would compare him to would be Tyler Griffey. He is thin but has a good all around game and folks project him to be an outside shooting big man. But he is only going into his junior year so he could develop a lot over the next two years. David Lee was different in that he was a super leaper and a very clever player who developed into a really great rebounder and passer and now he is a very good scorer as well.

I do not think any of us can really predict how a young man who has played only two years of high school ball will ultimately pan out as a college player. I hope the young man has a great career at Butler but I will not follow him and do not really care that much about Butler. I may be wrong but I think the two Butler final game appearances were a total fluke and we will not see Butler in another final four for the next decade. They had a wonderful run and it was exciting but they also had some good matchups and a bit of luck to get to where they did.

In terms of recruiting, I would have loved to see him at SLU but it seemed from the beginning that he was headed out of town. Maybe he did not want to play under the shadow of his grandfather. But we need to focus more on the kids who want to be Billikens. We have a very nice team with some real potential. This year we should be very good and next year we could be at least as good if not better. Let's cheer for this team and forget about kids who want to go to other schools.

[courtside]

Question for those in St. Louis that have seen him play: How good is Nolan Berry? Is he the next Larry Bird? Doubtful. Is he similar to David Lee? If so, then yes, not getting him is a loss.

Is he more like a young Evan Pedersen, Mike Ivester, et al.?

If he is not a David Lee type, then his going to Butler seems more of a PR hit for SLU than that big of a loss.

Coach can always get another similar player from the Land Down Under ...

He's more fluid and skilled than Pedersen, Ivester, Griffey etc...Very roughly speaking, top of my head, Jon Leuer from Wisconsin comes to mind. He needs to continue to get stronger. He's a top notch passer, excellent court vision. Willing to bang with bigger, stronger players and rebound. Good post moves. Likes facing the basket. Can step out to short, mid-range and shoot it....and that will only continue to improve over time. He's played very well against elite National competition for his age. He's a hard worker too.

[Bay Area Billiken]

He's more fluid and skilled than Pedersen, Ivester, Griffey etc...Very roughly speaking, top of my head, Jon Leuer from Wisconsin comes to mind. He needs to continue to get stronger. He's a top notch passer, excellent court vision. Willing to bang with bigger, stronger players and rebound. Good post moves. Likes facing the basket. Can step out to short, mid-range and shoot it....and that will only continue to improve over time. He's played very well against elite National competition for his age. He's a hard worker too.

He sounds like more of a 4 than a 5. At this point from afar, it looks like a loss to me.

But if he was headed out of town, then what more can SLU do? As always, it takes two to tango.

I agree with Billikan that our team is going to be good this season, and have high hopes.

[P.B.]

He sounds like more of a 4 than a 5. At this point from afar, it looks like a loss to me.

But if he was headed out of town, then what more can SLU do? As always, it takes two to tango.

I agree with Billikan that our team is going to be good this season, and have high hopes.

Any player in the top 100 that we recruit and dont get is clearly a loss to the program, we dont bring in many top prospects. Now that you realized this was a loss in your eyes, can you admit that SLU is not a 'major' program, not nearly the program Butler is and only when we start winning games and a lot of them we are going to be able to get big time players whether they are from St. Louis or anywhere else in the country.

I love SLU basketball as much as the next guy but some of this ###### on here today is ###### absurb

[superslu]

Except that the fact that terms like BCS and mid-major, by definition refer to conferences, not individual programs. Gonzaga is a mid-major, as is Butler, because of the fact that the conference does not play Div. I-A football. The Mountain West and WAC play football in the FBS, so they are not mid-major. I'm not sure if the MAC plays in the FBS, but if they do, then they're not mid-major, either.

Regarding basketball, I think there's some adaptation to the definition, because some conferences have some non-football programs. The Atlantic 10 is such a conference. I'm not sure if the A-10 is technically mid-major or not (if they are, then Xavier is, even if they bristle at the definition and refuse awards). However, I looked at a national preview magazine -- Sporting News, I think, and it divided the programs into two tiers: high-major and mid-major/minor (which would be incorrect, because "minor" refers to programs at the Div. 2 level). The A-10 and Missouri Valley were listed as high-major.

I don't think you can consider the MAC to be anything but mid-major for basketball. Football doesn't really matter, although the BCS conferences are certainly not mid majors. IMO, if a conference isn't getting 3 or more teams to the big dance year in and year out they're mid-major. There are certainly very good teams that happen to be in mid-major conferences like Butler, Gonzaga, Memphis. Just my opinion.

[superslu]

C-USA- Memphis, Houston, SMU- those are not mid-majors.

WAC- Read my post. The WAC was considered to not be a mid-major. But the soon to be WAC will be losing Nevada, Fresno State, Hawaii, and others. In some ways the new WAC won't even be as high as mid-major.

A-10- Xavier, Temple, Dayton, UMass, Rhode Island- those are not mid-major, and I would argue that with Rick Majerus as Coach and Chaifetz Arena, neither is SLU.

Rhode Island hasn't been to the Big Dance since 1999 and has only been 8 times total. UMass hasn't been to the big dance since 1998 and has also only been 8 times. While UMass does have a final 4, I still think both of those teams fall into mid-major status. I might not have said that in the '90s, but time has passed.

[courtside]

He sounds like more of a 4 than a 5. At this point from afar, it looks like a loss to me.

But if he was headed out of town, then what more can SLU do? As always, it takes two to tango.

I agree with Billikan that our team is going to be good this season, and have high hopes.

He defends 4's and 5's. He's a face up 4 on offense, though can play the 5. He can do a lot of things and adds things to his game all the time. The excuses makers will make excuses, and the haters will hate. He's a good player, a lost opportunity for SLU. On to the next player.

[bonwich]

The "definition" of a mid-major is a member of any conference you look down your nose at.

That said, there really is a "definition" that's been used by CollegeInsider.com for about a dozen years for its "Mid-Major Top 25 Poll" (in which, by the way, Butler finished first last year):

NOTE: The Mid-Major Poll is made up of teams from the following conferences: America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, Great West, Horizon, Independents, Ivy, Metro Atlantic, Mid-American, Mid-Eastern, Missouri Valley, Northeast, Ohio Valley, Patriot, Southern, Southland, Southwestern, Summit, Sun Belt, West Coast.

And that said, we all know why this definition hasn't taken hold: Poor marketing.

[slu72]

Kind of senseless waste of time to post why I think he chose Butler, because I really have no idea. But hey, it's early and I'm tired of reading about how my Giants knocked off the Pigeons this Sunday. My guess is NB chose Butler primarily because of their recent David v Goliath past, they've featured two PF's similar to him, Stevens is an affable young loyal Mark Few kind of guy who's likely not leaving for a BCS gig, the enthusiasm of his future teammates, and proximity to St. Louis. Obviously he felt very comfortable there. And while I don't want to sound like Broy here, maybe his parents read the horror stories about playing for RM and said, "our son's a top 50 player and deserves to find a comfortable home." But it's good to know NB will still be rooting for good ol' SLU. Good luck, NB.

[HusakAttack]

He left the suds in the bucket and the clothes hangin out on the line.

[courtside]

Kind of senseless waste of time to post why I think he chose Butler, because I really have no idea. But hey, it's early and I'm tired of reading about how my Giants knocked off the Pigeons this Sunday. My guess is NB chose Butler primarily because of their recent David v Goliath past, they've featured two PF's similar to him, Stevens is an affable young loyal Mark Few kind of guy who's likely not leaving for a BCS gig, the enthusiasm of his future teammates, and proximity to St. Louis. Obviously he felt very comfortable there. And while I don't want to sound like Broy here, maybe his parents read the horror stories about playing for RM and said, "our son's a top 50 player and deserves to find a comfortable home." But it's good to know NB will still be rooting for good ol' SLU. Good luck, NB.

Nolan Berry made his own decision. His parents didn't make it, his grandfather didn't make it. No one sent him anywhere.

I know it exists that parents and others influence kids regarding college choices. However it also exists where kids make up their own minds based on their own experiences.

In regards to SLU, a program is evaluated based on its success on and off the floor, with regard also given to resources, and other environmental factors. A lot of the parochial types get very disappointed when a local recruit chooses elsewhere. Some even show misguided anger or a misguided grudge towards the recruit for the short or long term. That's unfortunate.

[slufanskip]

Kind of senseless waste of time to post why I think he chose Butler, because I really have no idea. But hey, it's early and I'm tired of reading about how my Giants knocked off the Pigeons this Sunday. My guess is NB chose Butler primarily because of their recent David v Goliath past, they've featured two PF's similar to him, Stevens is an affable young loyal Mark Few kind of guy who's likely not leaving for a BCS gig, the enthusiasm of his future teammates, and proximity to St. Louis. Obviously he felt very comfortable there. And while I don't want to sound like Broy here, maybe his parents read the horror stories about playing for RM and said, "our son's a top 50 player and deserves to find a comfortable home." But it's good to know NB will still be rooting for good ol' SLU. Good luck, NB.

Can the Giant defenders go ahead and get up now?