Moser devastating blow?

[Lando Griffin]

Anyone who thinks Moser will pull 5 star on the likes of Calipari or similar should be thrown off this board for stupidity.

During their run of 2018 they did a profile on the players.  Moser focuses and recruiters winners.  Guys who have won state championships.  Maybe not the highest recruited guys, but those that will fit into his system, have won and most importantly work hard.

Guys I’ve been defending Loyola here since the bracket came out and they’ve made a fantastic run but they are a middle pack mid major at best and Moser may be gone after this year anyway. 

[Clock_Tower]

2 hours ago, Duff Man said:

Sekeue Barentine was good at 2 things:

-busting his ass down the floor for the occasional easy bucket
-inducing lane violations with his quadruple clutch FT attempts

And bc he was on our team, I loved him throwing those wild elbows ... but other teams naturally hated that

[Taj79]

lando's post above should give pause ---- I saw an interview with Moser by Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman and he talked about what he learned from his mentor Rick Majerus.  Now lando's post about the types Moser recruits.  Sound a lot like Majerus to you?  It does me.  So Loyola is currently either Majerus 2.0 or Majerus-lite.  I would say Moser has his system, the Majerus system, and recruits kids that will fill the roles outlined in that system.  Kind of reinforces my asking of just what Travis' system is.  If pressed, I'd go with superior athletes short on basketball skills.  Which, if true, can be extremely exciting but defeated more time than not by lesser athletes playing deliberate basketball.

[JMM28]

13 hours ago, Lando Griffin said:

Guys I’ve been defending Loyola here since the bracket came out and they’ve made a fantastic run but they are a middle pack mid major at best and Moser may be gone after this year anyway. 

They're one of the best teams in the country right now. I don't think it sustains if Porter leaves because his chief lieutenant is running SIU now, but they are far, far better than a middle of the pack mid major.  

[BilliesBy40]

14 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

They're one of the best teams in the country right now. I don't think it sustains if Porter leaves because his chief lieutenant is running SIU now, but they are far, far better than a middle of the pack mid major.  

Plus it isn’t a given that Porter will take another job. The main reason he took the Loyola job was to return to Chicago, and I don’t think he’s dumb enough to take the DePaul job.

[3star_recruit]

2 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Plus it isn’t a given that Porter will take another job. The main reason he took the Loyola job was to return to Chicago, and I don’t think he’s dumb enough to take the DePaul job.

If Mike Brey can't get his mojo back next year, Porter can get the Notre Dame job.

[NH]

56 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

lando's post above should give pause ---- I saw an interview with Moser by Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman and he talked about what he learned from his mentor Rick Majerus.  Now lando's post about the types Moser recruits.  Sound a lot like Majerus to you?  It does me.  So Loyola is currently either Majerus 2.0 or Majerus-lite.  I would say Moser has his system, the Majerus system, and recruits kids that will fill the roles outlined in that system.  Kind of reinforces my asking of just what Travis' system is.  If pressed, I'd go with superior athletes short on basketball skills.  Which, if true, can be extremely exciting but defeated more time than not by lesser athletes playing deliberate basketball.

These feel like somewhat lazy narratives to me.

Our offense was objectively bad under Majerus every year but 2011-2012. Our offense has been above average the last two season under Ford (though certainly was bad before that). Our offense was better this year than 2 of the 3 tournament teams from 2012-2014. Our offense has also been brutal at stretches under Ford. But it’s kind of hacky to throw Ford under a broad umbrella of just getting by with better athletes.

Loyola has had the best or second best recruiting class in their conference for 4 straight seasons. He’s doing more than finding diamond in the roughs who fit a system. They are winning games because of outstanding execution, agreed with everyone on that. But they’re also winning partly because they’re more talented than most teams they play. 

Moser also doesn’t exactly run the “Majerus system”. There are plenty of differences in Loyola’s offense and the offense Majerus ran at SLU.

I don’t blame someone for being wary of Ford, but fans love to put coaches in broad categories like recruiter, Xs and Os coach, etc. when the results tend to be much more nuanced than that.

[ACE]

Funny how things change. When he was an assistant here, a strong opinion on the board was that he was not a good X's and O's coach. I didn't really have an opinion, because frankly I wasn't very dialed in on what was going on at his two previous stops Little Rock and Illinois State. 

The consensus was that he was primarily just a good recruiter. That ability has been on display at Loyola. I don't care how many stars his players had in high school, they are a talented team and kudos to Porter for identifying those players and successfully putting a roster together. Majerus was very skilled at putting together a roster where the pieces fit.

During his Final Four run, Moser repeatedly pointed to the value of his experience with Majerus as being a key to his evolution as a coach.

Moser's success, also dispels a common notion that was thrown around on the board - that Majerus had no successors or a coaching tree. Well, now he has one very good one, which only enhances the Majerus legacy. Porter's success is a great story, that I think SLU fans should take pride in and celebrate, rather than settling old scores or some of the other tangents. He always struck me as a very committed assistant who played a big part in putting together a nice three year run here, so I'm happy for his success.

Moser's success also shows that coaches, like players can develop and improve. IF Porter was not a good X's and O's guy previously, nobody can say that now.

[billiken_roy]

what rickma taught better than any coach i have ever studied was precision.   setting screens the right distance, releasing the right way, using a screen the correct way, defending against a screen, blocking out, moving without the ball.   all the lunch bucket stuff that is a difference maker.   

i saw a lot of that stuff this weekend watching loyola.   that is what moser learned and carried with him from his time being a billiken.

[billiken_roy]

3 minutes ago, ACE said:

Moser's success also shows that coaches, like players can develop and improve. IF Porter was not a good X's and O's guy previously, nobody can say that now.

i agree.   it's rare and this apparent happening is why moser should be a target coach.   to get past the normal arrogancy of being the all knowing head coach is very refreshing.  

[papal]

I heard Porter being interviewed on CBS before the tournament by Seth Greenberg and others.  Porter emphasized the Majerus basic rules of defense- guard the corner 3, and don't overplay on defense.  Rules that we could profit from.

[Clock_Tower]

4 hours ago, ACE said:

Funny how things change. When he was an assistant here, a strong opinion on the board was that he was not a good X's and O's coach. I didn't really have an opinion, because frankly I wasn't very dialed in on what was going on at his two previous stops Little Rock and Illinois State. 

The consensus was that he was primarily just a good recruiter. That ability has been on display at Loyola. I don't care how many stars his players had in high school, they are a talented team and kudos to Porter for identifying those players and successfully putting a roster together. Majerus was very skilled at putting together a roster where the pieces fit.

During his Final Four run, Moser repeatedly pointed to the value of his experience with Majerus as being a key to his evolution as a coach.

Moser's success, also dispels a common notion that was thrown around on the board - that Majerus had no successors or a coaching tree. Well, now he has one very good one, which only enhances the Majerus legacy. Porter's success is a great story, that I think SLU fans should take pride in and celebrate, rather than settling old scores or some of the other tangents. He always struck me as a very committed assistant who played a big part in putting together a nice three year run here, so I'm happy for his success.

Moser's success also shows that coaches, like players can develop and improve. IF Porter was not a good X's and O's guy previously, nobody can say that now.

In deference to me and others on this Board, Moser himself has repeatedly stated that he, in essence, was not a good x's and o's coach prior to RM.

And yes, Porter had alot of RM's knowledge in his head but it did take him awhile to learn how to teach this knowledge and to know which players would accept the knowledge and style and which would not.  Porter was given this freedom to experiment and to grow further at Loyola.  And RM had his share of failures over the years as well. 

As to RM's coaching tree, yes, he now has Porter Moser.    But again, my take has always been that RM used his coaches to compensate for his own issues and to compliment him  - the Master - as opposed to develop any heir apparant.  

And to answer an earlier question, RM felt true passionate coaches should be like him -- eat, sleep, drink basketball.  RM had no wife or kids.  Family time each evening and weekends was not the RM way and likely ran afoul of coaches' wives such as Mrs. Porter Moser.

[thatskablamo]

20 hours ago, Lando Griffin said:

Anyone who thinks Moser will pull 5 star on the likes of Calipari or similar should be thrown off this board for stupidity.

During their run of 2018 they did a profile on the players.  Moser focuses and recruiters winners.  Guys who have won state championships.  Maybe not the highest recruited guys, but those that will fit into his system, have won and most importantly work hard.

Guys I’ve been defending Loyola here since the bracket came out and they’ve made a fantastic run but they are a middle pack mid major at best and Moser may be gone after this year anyway. 

Lando: think about Porter in this way... Loyola is a Gonzaga surrounded by a metropolitan area with 8.5 million more people than greater Spokane. Given time, a renaissance in resources and revenue, Loyola could be a juggernaut. 

That is Mid Major Madness. 

 

[Brighton]

1 hour ago, thatskablamo said:

Lando: think about Porter in this way... Loyola is a Gonzaga surrounded by a metropolitan area with 8.5 million more people than greater Spokane. Given time, a renaissance in resources and revenue, Loyola could be a juggernaut. 

That is Mid Major Madness. 

 

Nah because they won’t get top flight guys out of Chicago. They will end up being like Belmont. There’s too much competition for the city they’re in.

All of the B1G and Illinois schools go there. Plus you get teams from Big 12 and AAC going in there as well as Big East.

They will be a good team but won’t be huge, just because they aren’t national recruiters.

If you have offers from
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan St
Northwestern
DePaul
Creighton
Butler
Cincy

You’re not going to Loyola.

Gonzaga went international and didn’t have the competition locally Loyola has.

Loyola is like Tulsa in the Nolan years.

The Valley is a league of runs. One school will run it then disappear.

[CBFan]

53 minutes ago, Brighton said:

Nah because they won’t get top flight guys out of Chicago. They will end up being like Belmont. There’s too much competition for the city they’re in.

All of the B1G and Illinois schools go there. Plus you get teams from Big 12 and AAC going in there as well as Big East.

They will be a good team but won’t be huge, just because they aren’t national recruiters.

If you have offers from
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan St
Northwestern
DePaul
Creighton
Butler
Cincy

You’re not going to Loyola.

Gonzaga went international and didn’t have the competition locally Loyola has.

Loyola is like Tulsa in the Nolan years.

The Valley is a league of runs. One school will run it then disappear.

Disappear like Loyola right?

When Krutwig was a freshman final 4 and as a senior sweet 16.

Crieghton had just a few runs and ended up in the big east.

[brianstl]

42 minutes ago, Brighton said:

Nah because they won’t get top flight guys out of Chicago. They will end up being like Belmont. There’s too much competition for the city they’re in.

All of the B1G and Illinois schools go there. Plus you get teams from Big 12 and AAC going in there as well as Big East.

They will be a good team but won’t be huge, just because they aren’t national recruiters.

If you have offers from
Illinois
Michigan
Michigan St
Northwestern
DePaul
Creighton
Butler
Cincy

You’re not going to Loyola.

Gonzaga went international and didn’t have the competition locally Loyola has.

Loyola is like Tulsa in the Nolan years.

The Valley is a league of runs. One school will run it then disappear.

If you want to stay in Chicago to play you are going to Loyola instead of DePaul or Northwestern if Porter is still coaching Loyola.  Plus, Porte doesn’t really need to change how he recruits.  He has won more NCAA tournament games in the last four years than the Illini, DePaul and Northwestern have in the last 15 years combined.

[Taj79]

@NH ---- well, here's a narrative.  Twenty one years of coaching, seven NCAA appearances, one win.  This with tremendous recruiting classes at both Oklahoma State and here.  Many on here, including the illustrious billiken roy have called Ford one of the greatest recruiters ever.  Mt contention would be that as the level goes up so does the talent you face.  If talent negates talent at some level, something has to take over to take you higher.  I don't know if that's X's and O's or game planning or game preparation.  Travis could be our best coach ever.  But history indicates a plateau.  I'd like to see him bust that plateau both on a personal level and for our team's sake.  

[HoosierPal]

Per John Goodman, Moser is the leading candidate for the Marquette job. 

[Taj79]

I think Moser would likely be the leading candidate for that one.  And DePaul.  And Minnesota.  And Indiana.  All midwest schools.  All close to Chicago.

[CBFan]

9 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@NH ---- well, here's a narrative.  Twenty one years of coaching, seven NCAA appearances, one win.  This with tremendous recruiting classes at both Oklahoma State and here.  Many on here, including the illustrious billiken roy have called Ford one of the greatest recruiters ever.  Mt contention would be that as the level goes up so does the talent you face.  If talent negates talent at some level, something has to take over to take you higher.  I don't know if that's X's and O's or game planning or game preparation.  Travis could be our best coach ever.  But history indicates a plateau.  I'd like to see him bust that plateau both on a personal level and for our team's sake.  

As much as I like Coach Ford I agree he must bust the plateau and I believe he has to do it next season barring several injuries.

Returning Perkins, Hargrove, Collins, and Linssen is a good base along with what you can potentially get out of Okoro.

Coach Ford needs more help and the 3 scholarships are so important.  Coach Ford needs consistent quality minute players because he is not getting that from Jimerson, Thatch, Jacobs and Bell.

[dennis_w]

 I would not be to quick to write off Jimerson,thatch, jacobs and bell. I am for bringing in the best players you can get, but those four have had their moments, i think jacobs was hit hard by the virus or was injured  he had star like moments before covid

[courtside]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Per John Goodman, Moser is the leading candidate for the Marquette job. 

Actually, he said he didn't know and he was guessing. Not exactly a wild guess. I would be surprised if it wasn't Dennis Gates. I do think Moser has a chance, and is on a short list of top 5 or less. 

[Dr. Holly Hills]

10 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

what rickma taught better than any coach i have ever studied was precision.   setting screens the right distance, releasing the right way, using a screen the correct way, defending against a screen, blocking out, moving without the ball.   all the lunch bucket stuff that is a difference maker.   

i saw a lot of that stuff this weekend watching loyola.   that is what moser learned and carried with him from his time being a billiken.

I agree. It was refreshing to watch a team actually run set plays, instead of ball screen, dribble drive, if it’s not there look for the three.  Loyola and Gonzaga were the only two teams that I noticed had a different flow on offense.

[Major Majerus]

I think Jacobs never recovered from COVID.

When he came the MS game, he actually lost his legs on a drive where no one touched him . I welcome him back next year, hopefully fully recovered.