Moser devastating blow?

[Bobby Metzinger]

could you please list the local high school coaches that didnt like soderberg because he shunned them? also list all the local high school coaches that rickma has won over since then? thanks i will hang up and listen.

I left my Rolodex back in the office, Roy. I'm currently sitting in beautiful downtown Waco enjoying some coffee and enjoying the Easter weekend with what's left of the Branch Davidians.

But in all seriousness, Majerus doesn't have to convince local coaches that SLU is the right place for them to steer their top talent. Majerus is a household (or double-wide) name. Soderberg was and still is an unknown commodity. It's just that all the stories and the defecating in towels that has coaches and parents wondering "should my kid play for this man?"

It's no wonder Majerus loves the Clintons. All are geniuses in their respective profession. But once the behind-the-scene allegations surface, people start to question their ability to lead.

[billiken_roy]

I left my Rolodex back in the office, Roy. I'm currently sitting in beautiful downtown Waco enjoying some coffee and enjoying the Easter weekend with what's left of the Branch Davidians.

But in all seriousness, Majerus doesn't have to convince local coaches that SLU is the right place for them to steer their top talent. Majerus is a household (or double-wide) name. Soderberg was and still is an unknown commodity. It's just that all the stories and the defecating in towels that has coaches and parents wondering "should my kid play for this man?"

It's no wonder Majerus loves the Clintons. All are geniuses in their respective profession. But once the behind-the-scene allegations surface, people start to question their ability to lead.

so you admit that your statement was totally made up. soderberg wasnt a good coach. and soderberg did wait too long the last couple of years on higher level recruits which ended up yielding nothing. but alienating local coaches was not a negative of soderberg. he appeared often at local coaching clinics. he made the rounds and showed his face at local games.

rickma is not a local happening. you state he doesnt have to convince local coaches, well considering his track record thus far in bringing any local players to slu it sure isnt anything to use as a standard. maybe we dont need local players to win, but again, it would be nice to try.

[billiken_roy]

Come on Roy, as you've told us all in the past... Sodie is gone. No point dredging up the past.

i didnt bring it up. talk to metz.

and whenever someone is going to flat out lie about soderberg, romar, spoon, whomever, i will defend.

[slu72 fan]

This whole "recruiting local" was the demise of Soderberg. He went after the same caliber of local STL-area players and failed miserably to make any inroads. Majerus isn't Soderberg - not even close - but the inability of Soderberg to foster positive relationships with local High School coaches still lingers to this day. SLU basketball must have some enormously negative connotation over our heads in the STL coaching community. Don't even talk to me about Borgia sending kids - it ain't exactly Oak Hill Academy. Have we ever considered a Gus Mahlzan type of move where we would bring in the head coach of a Chaminade or DeSmet as an assistant at SLU if we could land a kid like Nolan Berry? Coaches want to advance their careers too, and if Majerus wanted a kid bad enough, now is the time to make something like this happen.

If you're the coach at DeSmet and SLU offers a job, isn't your first question going to be what happens in two years when RM's contract expires? The fact that it hasn't been extended, and no successor has been identified, makes the SLU job pretty unappealing, I would think. It's taken a long time in coaching terms to name a replacement for PM. Who would take a job with only 2 years likely in the offing.

Same goes for players, every coach recruiting against us must be saying to recruits, don't sign with SLU, you don't know who your coach is going to be in 2 years.

Earl Austin, hope you had a great birthday. As a parent of an excellent, young basketball player, how would all of this affect your interest in SLU? Does losing PM put SLU at a disadvantage for the next year or two?

[Bobby Metzinger]

If you're the coach at DeSmet and SLU offers a job, isn't your first question going to be what happens in two years when RM's contract expires? The fact that it hasn't been extended, and no successor has been identified, makes the SLU job pretty unappealing, I would think. It's taken a long time in coaching terms to name a replacement for PM. Who would take a job with only 2 years likely in the offing.

Same goes for players, every coach recruiting against us must be saying to recruits, don't sign with SLU, you don't know who your coach is going to be in 2 years.

Earl Austin, hope you had a great birthday. As a parent of an excellent, young basketball player, how would all of this affect your interest in SLU? Does losing PM put SLU at a disadvantage for the next year or two?

How much is the current salary for the HC at DeSmet?

[Bobby Metzinger]

i didnt bring it up. talk to metz.

and whenever someone is going to flat out lie about soderberg, romar, spoon, whomever, i will defend.

How did I lie about Soderberg? I think his lies to us as fans are the things we should be bitching about. Just watch his introductory press conference.

[slu72 fan]

How much is the current salary for the HC at DeSmet?

Two years vs. the rest of your life. Is it really worth of a few thousand to change your entire life? Maybe for some, but not for others. Why hasn't a new coach been named yet?

[Bobby Metzinger]

Two years vs. the rest of your life. Is it really worth of a few thousand to change your entire life? Maybe for some, but not for others. Why hasn't a new coach been named yet?

If you're a good coach, that shouldn't be an issue -- you can always go back to the high school ranks. People who are afraid to take risks aren't worth it anyway.

[slu72 fan]

If you're a good coach, that shouldn't be an issue -- you can always go back to the high school ranks. People who are afraid to take risks aren't worth it anyway.

Why hasn't a new coach been named?

[billiken_roy]

How did I lie about Soderberg? I think his lies to us as fans are the things we should be bitching about. Just watch his introductory press conference.

i already told you. soderberg may have been a lot of things not good as a coach of the billikens, but he did not alienate local coaches.

[MB73]

Are you saying Porter is equal to RM's top recruiter at Utah? Didn't Utah regularly go to the NCAA and even the Final game? I don't see such top talent here at SLU. Anyway, Let's take a look at the team as it relates to Porter's recruiting.

Our best 2 players are/were not attributed to Porter. Our best player, KM, was recruited by RM himself, not Porter. Our other top player, of course, was WR who I believe commited to SLU and RM after being recruited by Angres Thorpe, not Porter.

If I recall, BC presumably read RM's letter (not Porter's) and committed to play here sight unseen. Are we giving Porter credit for recruiting KC? If so, doesn't Porter also get the credit/blame for FJ, JR, JS and Justin Jordan? How about CR? Is he another Porter recruit too?

The best 2 recruits these past 2 years have been CE and RL and Porter had nothing to do with them. Same with CS.

Unless I am wrong, RM had been after JJ more so than Porter. That leaves us with the 2 Chicago kids of MM and DE who, I believe, were largely recruited by Porter.

At the same time, if we give an assistant coach so much credit for selling RM and playing time, then shouldn't we lay some blame upon Porter as well? For not landing all the St. Louis talent that has left town. Hey, we're not just losing to Florida and Kansas but also to fellow Jesuit school G'Town and to midwest Catholic school Notre Dame. Presume Porter didn't impress Harrelson with the purchase of hot co-eds during his offical visit to SLU. I also presume that Porter messed up the recruiting of of SK.

Correct me if I am mistaken. Otherwise, sorry but this does not indicate that Porter is some really top recruiter.

Good post.

Porter was a good guy so a lot of posters here liked him.

But he is not a big loss, and his recruiting is WAY overrated.

Of course each head coach has a guy like Porter who hits the road to see the players, meet their families, try to learn the player's minds.

But the players come to play for the head coach.

[ACE]

i didnt bring it up. talk to metz.

and whenever someone is going to flat out lie about soderberg, romar, spoon, whomever, i will defend.

I know you put "whomever" in your statement, but very telling that you didn't directly list our current coach who you will defend against lies.

I know you didn't bring up Sodie. I was just pointing out an apparent change in your approach to the topic. I'm glad you are dropping one of your previous strategies to stifle criticism against Sodie by using the "he's not hear anymore, why talk about him" tactic. We all know you were a big Sodie fan. Own it. Defend him. Considering that people are free to take shots at our current coach, there is absolutely no reason that crticisim of our previous coach should be a topic that is off limits.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Good post.

Porter was a good guy so a lot of posters here liked him.

But he is not a big loss, and his recruiting is WAY overrated.

Of course each head coach has a guy like Porter who hits the road to see the players, meet their families, try to learn the player's minds.

But the players come to play for the head coach.

All of that is true, but if the relationship is made with the AC, that player has a safe haven and outlet to communicate with when things go bad. Majerus isn't exactly known for having fireside chats with his men. The role of the AC is often to serve as an intermediary between player and head coach.

[billiken_roy]

I know you put "whomever" in your statement, but very telling that you didn't directly list our current coach who you will defend against lies.

I know you didn't bring up Sodie. I was just pointing out an apparent change in your approach to the topic. I'm glad you are dropping one of your previous strategies to stifle criticism against Sodie by using the "he's not hear anymore, why talk about him" tactic. We all know you were a big Sodie fan. Own it. Defend him. Considering that people are free to take shots at our current coach, there is absolutely no reason that crticisim of our previous coach should be a topic that is off limits.

as long as it isnt lies. whatever. i still dont see the point of almost 5 years later bringing him up at all. he is long gone and never coming back. so i still wonder "why talk about him?"

as to rickma, there are more lies justifying him than against him on this board, so he doesnt need my "help".

[billiken_roy]

All of that is true, but if the relationship is made with the AC, that player has a safe haven and outlet to communicate with when things go bad. Majerus isn't exactly known for having fireside chats with his men. The role of the AC is often to serve as an intermediary between player and head coach.

i agree with metz on this point. ask bobby lutz what happens when you let your best recruiting assistant get away. it was ultimately his doom. if the head coach is a recruiting dynamo himself, say a pitino or calapari (no mention of the methods to be that "dynamo") it is a different story. that recruiting assistant is indeed not as vital as the energetic head coach can work the trail.

as to specifically our current dilemna of moser being gone and no one named to fill the opening, what concerns me is that there seems to be no urgency to replace moser "officially". that said, rickma isnt stupid. he would not intentionally handicap himself.

this official hole leads me to believe that possibly he has picked his guy and his guy is a person that is currently unattached to any program. maybe this unnamed and unhired person is going to "work" the summer unattached as huggins did the summer he left cincy or as our own biancardi did before officially becoming that coach in the fall. i dont pretend to be an ncaa rules expert, but i believe that allows this person to work the summer blind of the ncaa rulebook on dead periods, contacts etc. not exactly kosher imo, and seems kinda smokey, but it could be a huge advantage. i mean does anyone know if there is any rules specifically covering such now? one would have thought the ncaa would have moved to close that loophole after the summer of huggy.

i am just thinking out loud and just trying to find a light in the darkness of no recruiting assistant coach right now. because it sure seems negligent that we are going this long short recruiters.

[Clock_Tower]

Hey. Just my thoughts, but I think I'd keep my offers out to Cheivous and others but not really worry about things one way or the other. Filling the roster with late Spring recruits is not always the best thing to do. Work on getting a new assistant coach who will work hard all summer and Fall and help RM land 2 to 4 more good players this coming Fall.

At this time of the year, as the supply of decent (not really any great ones truly left) diminishes, the demand for them goes way up. BCS schools which would not have given these guys the time of day last Fall are all of sudden showing interest to fill their last/final spots. Most of the guys will not have big impact at the BCS school of their choosing but still, the bright lights of the BCS schools, and the sales pitches of some the best salemen in the country, are quite appealing. None of these kids wants to believe that they will sit the bench at these BCS schools and then be recruited over by the next, latest and greatest guy this coming Fall. Whether these guys come to SLU or not, the real shame is that they would probably see more playing time and enjoy their college basketball careers more at a school like SLU than at the bright lights of the BCS schools.

Even so, we really don't need players until this Fall. IMO, Fr. Biondi will not even think about extending RM's contract until after next year (another short-sighted move) as RM's stock is quite low right now compared to where it will be next Spring. Next Spring, we will have had a good season (unlike this year) and RM will have the clout to demand more -- and will demand more. It's a shame b/c RM is not going to leave SLU for another program. Instead, he will retire (and could even have another comeback but that is doubtful). IMO, RM would be quite appreciative of a show of support and contract extension now (after the Situation and this past below .500 season). I believe that most people are truly NOT motivated by money as much as people think. Call it a hometown discount, an enjoyable atmosphere, etc., but RM is financially independent and really just wants to coach basketball and rebuild a program like he has in the past.

[NH]

We need to keep adding talent regardless of when they commit but ClockTower is right it is very hard to find good, signable players this late.

Perhaps Porter wasn't as important as maybe I made him out to be and perhaps we can replace him with another coach just as strong. But that doesn't change the fact that Porter was our point guy for the classes of 2012 and 2013 and that any inroads we had with those players are now lost. I wouldn't be surprised if we came up empty next fall and I think we are in a very dangerous place recruiting-wise.

[Pistol]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet: Moser is taking Director of Basketball Operations Matt Gordon with him. This doesn't necessarily have a recruiting impact, which seems to be the biggest worry with Moser's departure, but it is another position that needs to be filled.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/basketball/college/article_bc37470a-6ca8-11e0-8b8b-0019bb30f31a.html

[Bobby Metzinger]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet: Moser is taking Director of Basketball Operations Matt Gordon with him. This doesn't necessarily have a recruiting impact, which seems to be the biggest worry with Moser's departure, but it is another position that needs to be filled.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/basketball/college/article_bc37470a-6ca8-11e0-8b8b-0019bb30f31a.html

I would like to see Luke Meyer perhaps come back to the fold. Does he want to coach?

[Clock_Tower]

We need to keep adding talent regardless of when they commit but ClockTower is right it is very hard to find good, signable players this late.

Perhaps Porter wasn't as important as maybe I made him out to be and perhaps we can replace him with another coach just as strong. But that doesn't change the fact that Porter was our point guy for the classes of 2012 and 2013 and that any inroads we had with those players are now lost. I wouldn't be surprised if we came up empty next fall and I think we are in a very dangerous place recruiting-wise.

NH. You are right. That's where the big issue will be. As far as our play on the court, we are fine for next year - and may field our best team that I have ever watched (I go back to the Ron Ekker days). The year, of course, we are expected to "only" lose BC and KC so we should be fine that year as well. The key, though, is that we have only 1 Freshmen coming in this Fall (as of now) and that we will have 2 to 4 scholarships to give out 5 months from now. Between now and then, we don't have an impressive record to show, we have had no real post-season successes other than last years' 3rd tier tournament, RM will be starting his 5th year and the recruiting "face" of the program is now gone. Alot of work to do but I still trust in RM.

[NH]

Assuming we make the tournament next year, that won't be until all the good players have committed. At the moment, we are recruiting for a class with 3 open scholarships coming off of a 12-19 season with most of the players having little to no contact with the current coaching staff. That's not where you want to be.

[Bobby Metzinger]

Alot of work to do but I still trust in RM.

It's just interesting listening to him still talk about Van Horn, Miller and Bogut. These are players who had an enormous amount of God-given talent, went to a school that demanded very little of them academically and Majerus put the finishing touches on them and they became NBA-ready prospects at Utah.

Flash forward to 2011 - Majerus is getting kids that might have been great all-Metro or all-area players, but nowhere near the talent he had at Utah and he hasn't really shown what he can do with lesser talent. I'm not sure how many people assumed he could transform the human turnover Kyle Cassity into the second coming of Pete Marovich, but we also didn't think that players could regress under a coach like Rick Majerus.

Majerus talks about those Utah guys like he was some miracle worker. Those guys he brought in at Utah were all destined for great things before arriving in Salt Lake City.

[brianstl]

It's just interesting listening to him still talk about Van Horn, Miller and Bogut. These are players who had an enormous amount of God-given talent, went to a school that demanded very little of them academically and Majerus put the finishing touches on them and they became NBA-ready prospects at Utah.

Flash forward to 2011 - Majerus is getting kids that might have been great all-Metro or all-area players, but nowhere near the talent he had at Utah and he hasn't really shown what he can do with lesser talent. I'm not sure how many people assumed he could transform the human turnover Kyle Cassity into the second coming of Pete Marovich, but we also didn't think that players could regress under a coach like Rick Majerus.

Majerus talks about those Utah guys like he was some miracle worker. Those guys he brought in at Utah were all destined for great things before arriving in Salt Lake City.

Do you even watch any games?

Kyle Cassity led the team in minutes, had by far the best assist to turnover ratio on the team, and despite playing at least 200 more minutes than everyone else on the team outside of MM only finished fourth on the team in total turnovers.

[jimbofive]

CHICKENDICKS.

[jimbofive]

It's just interesting listening to him still talk about Van Horn, Miller and Bogut. These are players who had an enormous amount of God-given talent, went to a school that demanded very little of them academically and Majerus put the finishing touches on them and they became NBA-ready prospects at Utah.

Flash forward to 2011 - Majerus is getting kids that might have been great all-Metro or all-area players, but nowhere near the talent he had at Utah and he hasn't really shown what he can do with lesser talent. I'm not sure how many people assumed he could transform the human turnover Kyle Cassity into the second coming of Pete Marovich, but we also didn't think that players could regress under a coach like Rick Majerus.

Majerus talks about those Utah guys like he was some miracle worker. Those guys he brought in at Utah were all destined for great things before arriving in Salt Lake City.

Come on, dude. Needless, off-base shot at KC. He may not be a lot of things, but he's careful with the ball. 2.5 to 1 Ast/TO ratio last year, best on the team, I'm sure. And it's MARAVICH.

And I'd wager that aside from maybe CR, no one has regressed under RM. CE had a lot of ###### go wrong physically, Majerus can't help that.

Just not good observations here...