STLMPD Police Report

[billikenfan05]

I know, just a little playful banter with my buddy Rican.

Let's take out UGA this weekend!!

When you first got here you spelled billikens wrong. Go away troll.

[BillyBilly]

When you first got here you spelled billikens wrong. Go away troll.

Everyone types mistakes! If you can't tell I am a fan by now I don't know what I have to do.

I love H Waldman more than any of you.

H-BOMBS.

All over UGA this weekend!

[P.B.]

I'm not so sure that's all he did wrong. I think walking out and encouraging another guy to give it a go next showed some poor judgment on his part. If he hadn't done that, and just taken her home at that point, then none of them would have been in this situation. Instead he encouraged the next guy to go, which wound up being Smith.

Seems like Willie's story is mostly corroborated by the police report and it seems he really got a raw deal. Smith seems to have been the biggest violator in the whole incident.

I agree that based on that story Willie should not have been suspended. I would be ok with suspending Kwaimain the first ten games for 'conduct detrimental to the team' but a years suspension reduced to a semester does not fit. And to have Willie write an apology to the girl is asinine. I want Majerus' opinion but that might not come out unless we go 5-8 to start the year and he goes off

[billikenfan05]

I agree that based on that story Willie should not have been suspended. I would be ok with suspending Kwaimain the first ten games for 'conduct detrimental to the team' but a years suspension reduced to a semester does not fit. And to have Willie write an apology to the girl is asinine. I want Majerus' opinion but that might not come out unless we go 5-8 to start the year and he goes off

+1

[2010andBeyond]

This is exactly as I suspected. The only thing I see that could warrant a punishment is having sex in a dorm, but obvisously, who hasn't done that? Willie got screwed big time and his frustrations are understandable. What KM did was in bad taste, but nothing that could be considered a crime. The only person who may have even crossed a line was jon smith, but she could have said "no, one d per night is my rule" and walked out. SHE NEVER EVEN TRIED TO LEAVE UNTIL JJ DECIDED TO TRY AND GET IN ON IT. haha

I was really expecting the girl's story to be a lot more incriminating. She basically just said that she wished she wouldn't have been there. This is pathetic. What a dumb ######.

[billikenfan05]

Witness: "I am a social work major I already conducted an interview"

WTF??? I about died laughing reading this.

If I'm wrong correct me but The girls "interview" with the wannabe social work major doesn't match with her account of the night.

[JeffinMH]

I'm not so sure that's all he did wrong. I think walking out and encouraging another guy to give it a go next showed some poor judgment on his part. If he hadn't done that, and just taken her home at that point, then none of them would have been in this situation. Instead he encouraged the next guy to go, which wound up being Smith.

Seems like Willie's story is mostly corroborated by the police report and it seems he really got a raw deal. Smith seems to have been the biggest violator in the whole incident.

I agree. I believe the school did the right thing. People will certainly disagree but I think they got off easy. It is terrible to treat a woman and a fellow student the way they did. He would have been fine if he took her home right away. Instead they decided that they should take turns with her??!?!?!?!? Totally unethical, immoral, disrespectful, etc, etc, etc... Definitley an honor-code violation!

What were they thinking? Is it true she was drinking and they weren't? That just would make it even worse.

[RUBillsFan]

That's when she told police that Jordan and another player, believed to be Reed, stepped inside the bedroom. Jordan, the report says, tried to kiss her and asked for oral sex. The woman "verbally and emphatically told him 'no," and got up from the bed.

For me this part of the story is what contradicts that a sexual assualt rather than consentual activity took place. If it was assualt and without her consent why was she allowed to leave after saying "no" to sexual activity with JJ. If the players really wanted to "pull a train" it seems to me they would not have allowed her to leave. Seems to me she was free to leave or refuse at any time.

There are also several other items that seem strange based on her account or the police report.

one of the players admitted that he and his teammates discussed "pulling a train on" their accuser "without her knowledge or consent" -- suggesting that at least some of the players plotted to take turns having sex with the woman while walking home with her from the bar that night

This statement is confusing. Did the players discuss her knowledge and consent or did they discuss "pulling a train" without her being aware of the discussion. I'm not sure which the statement is implying. However, it seems that "pulling a train" with her knowledge would not be plausible.

The woman told police that she and a friend had attended an off-campus party around 11 p.m., where she drank "two alcoholic drinks consisting of vodka, Sprite and Gatorade," then headed to the Laclede Street Bar and Grill, drank two vodka-orange juice cocktails and got separated from her friend on the dance floor. When the bar closed at 3 a.m., she stepped out onto the sidewalk and recognized one of the basketball players.

So the girl had 4 drinks in 4+ hours leading up to the alledged assualt. Even if this girl is tiny, I doubt that is enough to impair her judgement enough that she cannot refuse sexual contact.

Jordan was the next to testify. Initially, the woman had accused him of taking part in the sexual assault but, based on the accounts of his teammates, police quickly concluded that she had confused Jordan with Smith and vice versa.

Asked later about the discrepancy, the woman correctly identified pictures of all four basketball players. When police told her that Smith admitted to having sex with her -- a direct contradiction of her version of events -- the woman told police that "she still had the vision of [Redacted] having sex with her but added that the room was dark and that both persons were significantly taller than her."

Jon Smith was what 6'5 and Justin Jordan was like 5'10. I'm sorry, but even if both are taller than you a 7 inch height difference sould be enough for you to be able to tell the difference between the two.

[2010andBeyond]

I agree. I believe the school did the right thing. People will certainly disagree but I think they got off easy. It is terrible to treat a woman and a fellow student the way they did. He would have been fine if he took her home right away. Instead they decided that they should take turns with her??!?!?!?!? Totally unethical, immoral, disrespectful, etc, etc, etc... Definitley an honor-code violation!

What were they thinking? Is it true she was drinking and they weren't? That just would make it even worse.

Dude, she could have left at any point. How can you say WR got off easy? According to this, he had little to nothing to do with the entire thing, other than be in the same apt. They may have violated your moral police statutes, but all signs point to the girl being an active participant.

[isotope]

Not exonerating the woman in the least (she was stupid!), but it is going to be hard for me to root for KM if/when he returns. I am glad that WR, JJ, and JS are gone. Oh yes, we might lose more games this year, but I would rather support a team I respect (albeit somewhat out of ignorance) than root for a team led by people who have behaved very improperly. To even consider taking advantage of a woman by having multiple men use her (which they did) is inexcusable in my opinion.

[P.B.]

Dude, she could have left at any point. How can you say WR got off easy? According to this, he had little to nothing to do with the entire thing, other than be in the same apt. They may have violated your moral police statutes, but all signs point to the girl being an active participant.

Willie didn't get off, Jon Smif and Kwamain did. Fact

[billikenfan05]

Willie didn't get off, Jon Smif and Kwamain did. Fact

BAHAHAHAH!

[For-DaLove]

Not exonerating the woman in the least (she was stupid!), but it is going to be hard for me to root for KM if/when he returns. I am glad that WR, JJ, and JS are gone. Oh yes, we might lose more games this year, but I would rather support a team I respect (albeit somewhat out of ignorance) than root for a team led by people who have behaved very improperly. To even consider taking advantage of a woman by having multiple men use her (which they did) is inexcusable in my opinion.

Take advantage? Only the best sluts will put the condom on for you.

[AlumniFan]

I have been an unabashed defender of this University through virtually EVERY single incident in the 15 plus years I have been commenting on this board and its predecessor. I was generally supportive of the University through this latest incident until I read the RFT transcript. There is no way I can defend the University in this incident. This woman made some very, very poor decisions not only that night, but subsequent to that night. What the guys did may not be consistent with what I would do, but to suggest in any way whatsoever that what they did was criminal is absolutely outrageous. If these were my sons, I would go after the University with every legal option available.

I felt bad for Willie as the facts came out; now, I am beyond stunned by what they have done to him. This should shock many of you because I have routinely been accused of being blindly loyal to the administration and being "holier than thou", but my conscience would really bother me if I supported the University on this one.

For those few supporting the actions of the University, I ask this: given the relatively limited amount of alcohol this young lady consumed per her own words (i.e. she was not terribly intoxicated), given her OWN TESTIMONY regarding her actions that night, how can you possibly say that she was not at least 50% responsible for this entire (and I mean entire, not just the events of that night) disaster? It is beyond logic. This is not one of those, "well, she wore a short skirt, so she asked for it" situations. She was texting the guy, she was coming on to him all the way back, she went into the bedroom, she got undressed, she undertook the necessary other actions to facilitate what happened, no one held her beyond her will, and she had every opportunity to leave. We all do things we regret, but we don't take the opportunity to ruin people's lives just to make ourselves feel better after the fact.

I almost wish I had never read that stupid transcript. My opinion of the school is totally altered now and that really pisses me off. This is a really bad day.

[joe_davola]

I have been an unabashed defender of this University through virtually EVERY single incident in the 15 plus years I have been commenting on this board and its predecessor. I was generally supportive of the University through this latest incident until I read the RFT transcript. There is no way I can defend the University in this incident. This woman made some very, very poor decisions not only that night, but subsequent to that night. What the guys did may not be consistent with what I would do, but to suggest in any way whatsoever that what they did was criminal is absolutely outrageous. If these were my sons, I would go after the University with every legal option available.

I felt bad for Willie as the facts came out; now, I am beyond stunned by what they have done to him. This should shock many of you because I have routinely been accused of being blindly loyal to the administration and being "holier than thou", but my conscience would really bother me if I supported the University on this one.

For those few supporting the actions of the University, I ask this: given the relatively limited amount of alcohol this young lady consumed per her own words (i.e. she was not terribly intoxicated), given her OWN TESTIMONY regarding her actions that night, how can you possibly say that she was not at least 50% responsible for this entire (and I mean entire, not just the events of that night) disaster? It is beyond logic. This is not one of those, "well, she wore a short skirt, so she asked for it" situations. She was texting the guy, she was coming on to him all the way back, she went into the bedroom, she got undressed, she undertook the necessary other actions to facilitate what happened, no one held her beyond her will, and she had every opportunity to leave. We all do things we regret, but we don't take the opportunity to ruin people's lives just to make ourselves feel better after the fact.

I almost wish I had never read that stupid transcript. My opinion of the school is totally altered now and that really pisses me off. This is a really bad day.

Agreed...and on top of that, the way the whole situation went down with the student board (allowing lawyers to be present for the 'victim' etc.) just adds fuel to the fire.

[For-DaLove]

I have been an unabashed defender of this University through virtually EVERY single incident in the 15 plus years I have been commenting on this board and its predecessor. I was generally supportive of the University through this latest incident until I read the RFT transcript. There is no way I can defend the University in this incident. This woman made some very, very poor decisions not only that night, but subsequent to that night. What the guys did may not be consistent with what I would do, but to suggest in any way whatsoever that what they did was criminal is absolutely outrageous. If these were my sons, I would go after the University with every legal option available.

I felt bad for Willie as the facts came out; now, I am beyond stunned by what they have done to him. This should shock many of you because I have routinely been accused of being blindly loyal to the administration and being "holier than thou", but my conscience would really bother me if I supported the University on this one.

For those few supporting the actions of the University, I ask this: given the relatively limited amount of alcohol this young lady consumed per her own words (i.e. she was not terribly intoxicated), given her OWN TESTIMONY regarding her actions that night, how can you possibly say that she was not at least 50% responsible for this entire (and I mean entire, not just the events of that night) disaster? It is beyond logic. This is not one of those, "well, she wore a short skirt, so she asked for it" situations. She was texting the guy, she was coming on to him all the way back, she went into the bedroom, she got undressed, she undertook the necessary other actions to facilitate what happened, no one held her beyond her will, and she had every opportunity to leave. We all do things we regret, but we don't take the opportunity to ruin people's lives just to make ourselves feel better after the fact.

I almost wish I had never read that stupid transcript. My opinion of the school is totally altered now and that really pisses me off. This is a really bad day.

Great post. Now people are beginning to understand while those who knew most of what happened that night didn't believe there would be any disciplinary action.

[slufan13]

As long as they kick every single person who has had sex in a dorm out, I'm fine with the decision.

on a more serious note, it's not just as simple as saying no. she could have been too scared to do anything, but it seems to me like she had every chance to leave if she wanted.

i guess slu didn't find this as sexual assault if you ask me. it goes back to i don't think they would ever be able to come back if it was sexual assault that they were accused for.

[froline]

I wonder if things would be different at a state school. I don't think they broke any laws and in a public school they would be in the clear. The fact that SLU is a catholic university makes me think they should be held to the values and morals of the Catholic faith. Maybe the school should have came out and said they did nothing legally wrong but were not acting in a way the school wants to be represented. They should also reprimand the female in the same manner. I think then WR and KM would have been able to accept their punishment and felt more comfortable returning.

[JMM28]

I have said it many times before...if you leave something up to a bunch of "academics" who have no idea of the real world, they are going to screw it up.

Multiply that by the jealousy of a high paid basketball coach and divide by the number of men on the judicial board, and this is what you get!

[TheA_Bomb]

I have been an unabashed defender of this University through virtually EVERY single incident in the 15 plus years I have been commenting on this board and its predecessor. I was generally supportive of the University through this latest incident until I read the RFT transcript. There is no way I can defend the University in this incident. This woman made some very, very poor decisions not only that night, but subsequent to that night. What the guys did may not be consistent with what I would do, but to suggest in any way whatsoever that what they did was criminal is absolutely outrageous. If these were my sons, I would go after the University with every legal option available.

I felt bad for Willie as the facts came out; now, I am beyond stunned by what they have done to him. This should shock many of you because I have routinely been accused of being blindly loyal to the administration and being "holier than thou", but my conscience would really bother me if I supported the University on this one.

For those few supporting the actions of the University, I ask this: given the relatively limited amount of alcohol this young lady consumed per her own words (i.e. she was not terribly intoxicated), given her OWN TESTIMONY regarding her actions that night, how can you possibly say that she was not at least 50% responsible for this entire (and I mean entire, not just the events of that night) disaster? It is beyond logic. This is not one of those, "well, she wore a short skirt, so she asked for it" situations. She was texting the guy, she was coming on to him all the way back, she went into the bedroom, she got undressed, she undertook the necessary other actions to facilitate what happened, no one held her beyond her will, and she had every opportunity to leave. We all do things we regret, but we don't take the opportunity to ruin people's lives just to make ourselves feel better after the fact.

I almost wish I had never read that stupid transcript. My opinion of the school is totally altered now and that really pisses me off. This is a really bad day.

You got it exactly right. The report is almost exactly what I thought it would be. To be honest I thought that the sex acts involved would be a bit more involved. Some will find their actions reprehensible and that is fine. However, no assault took place. Her statement doesn't even support that an assault took place. Even if she did think I'd rather be anywhere else than here that means nothing. She said no once then changed her mind and preceded. She did not rebuff their actions, attempt to leave, struggle or verbally tell them no. She aided the sex acts putting on condoms etc. She immediately feels guilty for her actions and instead of taking responsibility for being dirty she decides it isn't her fault she was raped.

I'm disappointed in KM for not telling the truth initially.

WR had it right the first time get a lawyer don't talk even if you are completely innocent as he was.

Does exhibiting poor judgement and having dirty sex necessitate altering the course of these young men's lives? I don't think so the penalty is too harsh especially for Reed who did nothing. KM may have warranted a punishment but this is too harsh. That's what you get in a one sided hearing staffed by upper-class white females. They identified with the "victim".

Pathetic on SLU's part.

[dlarry]

Not exonerating the woman in the least (she was stupid!), but it is going to be hard for me to root for KM if/when he returns. I am glad that WR, JJ, and JS are gone. Oh yes, we might lose more games this year, but I would rather support a team I respect (albeit somewhat out of ignorance) than root for a team led by people who have behaved very improperly. To even consider taking advantage of a woman by having multiple men use her (which they did) is inexcusable in my opinion.

I respect that.

But if this is truly the way you feel you need to stop supporting any sport above the high school level.

I can promise you this type of thinig happens with every pro sports team.

and Im pretty sure the same could be said of 99% of college football and basketball teams.

[dlarry]

Even if she did think I'd rather be anywhere else than here that means nothing.

Ive thougth that many of times when Ive been over served and ended up in a bed with a fatty.

[Bizziken]

I respect that.

But if this is truly the way you feel you need to stop supporting any sport above the high school level.

I can promise you this type of thinig happens with every pro sports team.

and Im pretty sure the same could be said of 99% of college football and basketball teams.

Agreed. I'm baffled that the 'moral police' are taking a stand against THIS circumstance...I guarantee that far more deplorable sexual transgressions happen EVERY DAY on college campuses, probably even SLU...

THIS ordeal, while not being morally state-of-the-art, does not demonstrate to me that these individuals are evil or deserve to be punished severely.

Did the players exercise bad judgment? Absolutely...

Were there bad decisions made on both sides? Of course...

[showthebill]

I CAN'T believe we just lost our entire season because this broad was embarrassed she consented to sex with two guys in one night.

[boudder]

Im pretty sure the same could be said of 99% of college football and basketball teams.