Cameron Biedscheid and Jordan Granger

[Billiken4life5]

Let me be clear --- just because a kid gets a few D1 offers (or so it is said) does not in my book make him a four- or five-star recruit. Who does stars? Rivals? If and only if Rivals listed a kid as such, would I add that to their resume. Now, there may be more lists --- a Rivals Four-Star, an ESPNU Top 100, a Vtime Bullsh*t Local D1 wannabee honor and so on. All are of course legit and get added. But even "can't miss" prospects do --- for various reasons. Grades. Clearinghouse. Donating their bodies as cadavers to a practicing law school grad working in juvee court, and so on.

kshoe is right when he says my belief that St. Louis is weak as a developmental basketball area. Even when we get four- and five-star recruits, and they do go elsewhere as so noted in this thread, they don't have John Wall-esque or Carmello-esque years. Hughes had one, but would hae have had the same at a BCS school where he wasn't the one and only? Jahidi White? Average. Loren Woods? Average. David Lee? Average in college, exploded in the pros. LaPhonso Ellis? Workmanlike. Jimmy McKinney? Average. Tyler Hansborough? Above average. Scott Suggs? Incomplete. John Brandenburg? Zero. Just getting mentioned with these accolades is one level of success, but you still have to take the next step and then the next.

Eventually, it will catch up to you. Case in point: the greatest basketbal player is SLU history went from BMOC to first round lottery pick to NBA journeyman.

"Tyler Hansborough? Above average"

I would have to say that the national player of the year is more than just above average. Though an argument can be made that Hansborough was from too far away (Poplar Bluff) to be clumped in with St. Louis.

[brianstl]

Let me be clear --- just because a kid gets a few D1 offers (or so it is said) does not in my book make him a four- or five-star recruit. Who does stars? Rivals? If and only if Rivals listed a kid as such, would I add that to their resume. Now, there may be more lists --- a Rivals Four-Star, an ESPNU Top 100, a Vtime Bullsh*t Local D1 wannabee honor and so on. All are of course legit and get added. But even "can't miss" prospects do --- for various reasons. Grades. Clearinghouse. Donating their bodies as cadavers to a practicing law school grad working in juvee court, and so on.

kshoe is right when he says my belief that St. Louis is weak as a developmental basketball area. Even when we get four- and five-star recruits, and they do go elsewhere as so noted in this thread, they don't have John Wall-esque or Carmello-esque years. Hughes had one, but would hae have had the same at a BCS school where he wasn't the one and only? Jahidi White? Average. Loren Woods? Average. David Lee? Average in college, exploded in the pros. LaPhonso Ellis? Workmanlike. Jimmy McKinney? Average. Tyler Hansborough? Above average. Scott Suggs? Incomplete. John Brandenburg? Zero. Just getting mentioned with these accolades is one level of success, but you still have to take the next step and then the next.

Eventually, it will catch up to you. Case in point: the greatest basketbal player is SLU history went from BMOC to first round lottery pick to NBA journeyman.

LaPhonso Ellis was a lot more than workmanlike at ND. He is the all-time shot blocker still at ND, third all-time in rebounding, and scored 1,500 points.

[billiken_roy]

obviously taj's standards are high. he is looking for the last name to be alcindor, robertson, chamberlain, johnson, bird or west.

[bauman]

No local 4* or 5* player will stay here when they can play in ACC, SEC, Big East, Big 12, etc.

Why not? Memphis is looking to land one of the best recruits in the country who happens to be from Memphis. X, Cincy and Louisville are all city schools who can land local recruits. We can get there too. Just takes some serious winning.

[RiseAndGrind]

And according to Scout.com Biedscheid committed to Notre Dame.

Sweet..

[BIG BILL FAN]

And according to Scout.com Biedscheid committed to Notre Dame.

Sweet..

http://stlhighschoolsports.com/sports/boys-basketball/ritters-biedscheid-commits-to-notre-dame/

[kcbilliken]

http://stlhighschoolsports.com/sports/boys-basketball/ritters-biedscheid-commits-to-notre-dame/

damn. hes still got almost 2 years left before he goes to college. plenty of things can change. like if notre dame has a down year and mike brey gets fired. as big as it is getting a verbal a kid committing as a first semester junior doesnt mean that much. if this was november next year id say he's definitely going to nd.

also not too worried, RM has his eyes on plenty of talent, especially across the sea

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

damn. hes still got almost 2 years left before he goes to college. plenty of things can change. like if notre dame has a down year and mike brey gets fired. as big as it is getting a verbal a kid committing as a first semester junior doesnt mean that much. if this was november next year id say he's definitely going to nd.

also not too worried, RM has his eyes on plenty of talent, especially across the sea

Backhand is depressed.

Probably the same way that Metz felt after ND getting spanked by both Michigan and Michigan St. Not to mention the George Steinbrenner '30 on 30' episode that aired this week.

[billiken_roy]

And according to Scout.com Biedscheid committed to Notre Dame.

Sweet..

what? you are happy we lost a big target to notre dame? nice billiken loyalty.

[billikenfan05]

what? you are happy we lost a big target to notre dame? nice billiken loyalty.

I believe he was being sarcastic.

[doowop]

And according to Scout.com Biedscheid committed to Notre Dame.

Sweet..

What happened to us doing so well in the recruiting of the 2012 class? Biedscheid was one our main targets. I hope we get one or two of our other targeted primary recruits.

[b.hayes]

I believe he was being sarcastic.

BRoy is smart enough to know that on his own. He must have just taken his curmudgeon pill today.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Local area 2012 class

Some names to keep in mind

6'7 forward Jordan Granger-McCluer North

6'7 guard/forward BJ McLaughlin- Haz Central

6'9 forward Colin Ferguson-Desoto

6'6 guard Cameron Biedscheid-Ritter

6'3 guard Paul McRoberts- Soldan

6'9 forward Darrell Johnson-Parkway North

6'0 guard Zach Ellis-Whitfield

6'3 guard Travon Williams-U. City

5'10 guard-Antonio Hopkins-Vashon

6'4 guard Keenan Lawson-East St. Louis

6'2 guard Jared White-Desoto

[Taj79]

Who watches PTI -- Pardon the Interruption? In the best Kornheiser gravel I say .....

"Welcome backs boys and girls. Okay, the game I always win ..... over and under. Reali. The first category please ....

Percentage of 11, count them, 11 St. Louis college hoops prospects listed by STLHoops Insider that actually mean more than squaw-****** at a mid-major, Division 1 college basketball program in the next four years?

Nine percent! I believe one of these prospects might mean something but not a single percenatge point more.

[SluSignGuy]

Who watches PTI -- Pardon the Interruption? In the best Kornheiser gravel I say .....

"Welcome backs boys and girls. Okay, the game I always win ..... over and under. Reali. The first category please ....

Percentage of 11, count them, 11 St. Louis college hoops prospects listed by STLHoops Insider that actually mean more than squaw-****** at a mid-major, Division 1 college basketball program in the next four years?

Nine percent! I believe one of these prospects might mean something but not a single percenatge point more.

Tony Kornheiser is an American Treasure....

[STL Hoops Insider]

Who watches PTI -- Pardon the Interruption? In the best Kornheiser gravel I say .....

"Welcome backs boys and girls. Okay, the game I always win ..... over and under. Reali. The first category please ....

Percentage of 11, count them, 11 St. Louis college hoops prospects listed by STLHoops Insider that actually mean more than squaw-****** at a mid-major, Division 1 college basketball program in the next four years?

Nine percent! I believe one of these prospects might mean something but not a single percenatge point more.

I did leave off 6'9 Ryan Rosburg from Marquette HS. He's got several D1 offers. But from the list Biedscheid is already headed to a high-major school, and Jordon Granger will be visiting Mizzou 2 weekends from now and will end up at a high-major school, so its at least 18 percent. And again my post says names to "keep in mind" not "players SLU should offer" etc.

[NH]

I did leave off 6'9 Ryan Rosburg from Marquette HS. He's got several D1 offers. But from the list Biedscheid is already headed to a high-major school, and Jordon Granger will be visiting Mizzou 2 weekends from now and will end up at a high-major school, so its at least 18 percent. And again my post says names to "keep in mind" not "players SLU should offer" etc.

McRoberts, Hopkins, Rosburg, Biedscheid, Granger will all go AT LEAST mid major.

Two of those guys have offers or are commited to BCS schools.

The 2013 class is better than the 2012 one as well. Don't sleep on St. Louis players.

[STL Hoops Insider]

I'm not quite sure 2013 is better just yet, but we'll see. NH have you seen Haz Central's BJ McLaughlin? That kid might be a major steal for somebody. Puts the ball on the floor extremely well for 6'7.

[marcthebillikenfan]

I'm not quite sure 2013 is better just yet, but we'll see. NH have you seen Haz Central's BJ McLaughlin? That kid might be a major steal for somebody. Puts the ball on the floor extremely well for 6'7.

McClauglin is 6'5 at Best.

[Bearvision]

Who watches PTI -- Pardon the Interruption? In the best Kornheiser gravel I say .....

"Welcome backs boys and girls. Okay, the game I always win ..... over and under. Reali. The first category please ....

Percentage of 11, count them, 11 St. Louis college hoops prospects listed by STLHoops Insider that actually mean more than squaw-****** at a mid-major, Division 1 college basketball program in the next four years?

Nine percent! I believe one of these prospects might mean something but not a single percenatge point more.

I'll give the guy credit though. He was touting McLemore a LONG time before the recruiting services talked about him. I've had my problems with a few of the kids Stl touted in the past, but he gets major props from me for talking up Mc, when some on here we were saying he'd go to Harris Stowe.

[dlarry]

LaPhonso Ellis was a lot more than workmanlike at ND. He is the all-time shot blocker still at ND, third all-time in rebounding, and scored 1,500 points.

Ellis was a hell of a player. But when he blew out his knee his quickness was gone and for the most part his career was over.

Without the knee injuries, and I think he also blew out his achilles, he could of had a good/great NBA career instead of the so so career he had.

My main problem with these rankings is that they seem to change with what colleges are intrested in the player.

If player "A" is being recruited by an OVC school he may be given 3 stars but if an ACC school sees him and gives him an offer that ranking may go up to 4 or 5 stars.

Its impossible for the scouts to see all the players. Im sure they do a good job but many times they have to rely on what college coaches are saying more than what they have seen with their own eyes.

[Taj79]

Let me say again, for the record, that I don't have a lot of faith that these so-called "four- and five-star" recruits from St. Louis are worth much. I have said this before and it has been pointed on on numerous occasions that that is my stance. We shall see.

To Bearvision ... a long time ago I had my run-ins with the original incarnation of Vtime, wherein he said "offer everybody." It is my belief that they current version still throws a lot oF mud up on the wall, so to speak, hoping something sticks somewhere. Is this his early calls on McLemore? I don't know. But my key phrase is "mean more than 00 (squaw-******) ar a mid-Major program." Because these ratings are purely subjective, so too might the results of a collegiate career be. Right now, is Scott Suggs more than squaw-******? I say "hell no." Now, he has two years to correct that but does a four- or five-star player need that long in today's watered-down college game to deliver with such a rating?

To NH ... "going" BCS or even "committing" to BCS or mid-majors means nothing in my subjective ratings. You list four for 36% of these St. Louis players having major impacts at these schools? I am not so optimnistic and history of st. Louis players seems to back up my pessimistic outlook. Dwayne Polk. Joel Shelton. Okay, maybe these weren't four and five stars back then but still, when the STL Post-Dispatch POY sucks as bad as the majority have, well, that's history.

Whatever Bradley Beal, Cameron Beischeid, Ben McLemore and Jordan Granger do has a chance to affect long-term and long counted for results. I just don't believe in the St. Louis taelnt pool. That's why i don't really lose a lot of slepp over missing on these guys as we seem to do.

In their behalf, they are doing exactly what I would do if I were them.

[Clock_Tower]

Let me say again, for the record, that I don't have a lot of faith that these so-called "four- and five-star" recruits from St. Louis are worth much. I have said this before and it has been pointed on on numerous occasions that that is my stance. We shall see.

To Bearvision ... a long time ago I had my run-ins with the original incarnation of Vtime, wherein he said "offer everybody." It is my belief that they current version still throws a lot oF mud up on the wall, so to speak, hoping something sticks somewhere. Is this his early calls on McLemore? I don't know. But my key phrase is "mean more than 00 (squaw-******) ar a mid-Major program." Because these ratings are purely subjective, so too might the results of a collegiate career be. Right now, is Scott Suggs more than squaw-******? I say "hell no." Now, he has two years to correct that but does a four- or five-star player need that long in today's watered-down college game to deliver with such a rating?

To NH ... "going" BCS or even "committing" to BCS or mid-majors means nothing in my subjective ratings. You list four for 36% of these St. Louis players having major impacts at these schools? I am not so optimnistic and history of st. Louis players seems to back up my pessimistic outlook. Dwayne Polk. Joel Shelton. Okay, maybe these weren't four and five stars back then but still, when the STL Post-Dispatch POY sucks as bad as the majority have, well, that's history.

Whatever Bradley Beal, Cameron Beischeid, Ben McLemore and Jordan Granger do has a chance to affect long-term and long counted for results. I just don't believe in the St. Louis taelnt pool. That's why i don't really lose a lot of slepp over missing on these guys as we seem to do.

In their behalf, they are doing exactly what I would do if I were them.

Why do the names of Leon Powell and Nick Kern come to mind? POY guys like Dwayne Polk and Luke Meyer also came to SLU but you would not realize how good of high school players they actually were based upon their college performance.

Sure, St. Louis has had some really good players come thru. Sure, more good players from the Lou will come the ranks. Being a smaller market than Chicago, NY, etc., our local kids have less competition. Every year, we produce good D1 players but guys like Tyler Hansbrough and Larry Hughes. The odds that St. Louis is producing 4 such guys -- all in the same class -- are not very good. Only time will tell.