We are making history!

[slufanskip]

I know we don't want to hear who may still leave, but I'd be shocked if JJ comes back. The reality of the situation has to be painfully clear to him.

With WR, RL, CE, BC, CR (who btw had his best game Wed. He was fantastic and relegated JS to the bench)and JS all getting minutes at the 4 and 5 and some at the 3. Probably at least 20 minutes a game will have 3 of those 6 players on the floor at one time.

Even if we only go 3 bigs 1/2 the time that leaves 100 minutes for guards. KM will get 30 and Cassity will get 25 as a minnimum whether some like it or not. McCall will get 20 minutes a game very quickly and CS will get 20 give or take. We now have a slashing 3 in DE also to get some minutes. How many minutes can JJ get. The thing is he's going into his sophmore year, does he want to spend his college basketball career as a guard who gets 5 possibly 10 minutes a game? Will we continue to sign even more players potentially better than him. The kid is a good player, he can score and there are many, many schools at the D1 level where he could be a main player and a big time scoring threat. I just don't think he can potentially be that at SLU. In years past, yes ... not anymore, and that's a good thing.

[bauman]

The other things to keep in mind about next year's line up is our depth and flexibility.

As we stood this year--the coaches regulary switched guys in and out of the lineup--especially our bigs. With the addition of MM, DE and RL we now have many, many more line up / match up options as well as the ability to only run guys 20-25 minutes a game consistantly. Depending on many things we could have some serious match nightmares for opposing teams. IF Cody continues to work on his strength and post game--that would require the other team to have 3 legit bigs on the floor at a time and if that is the case both Cody and Rob can/should light it up from "way down under." Also, depending upon DE's development--he could be a true 3 that has kind of been missing. He and Cody may end up splitting time. The again Cody may split time at both the 3 and the 4. MM may be the sharp shooter we have all coveted for so long and he may see a lot of time as a true 2, but can probably be a 2 also. Heck CS may find his shot and be the 40% 3 pt machine we all hoped he would be, his D came a long way this year and he is now very good at that end. Plus, CS showed true grit on several occasions and sprinkled in the ability to take it to the hole. The same can be said for KC--a true competitor and our best "lock-down" defender. Plus, he has been our best assist man. He can be a 1, 2, or 3. JJ is scoring machine--he came a long way on the other end and hopefully he fully recovers and comes back beter than ever. He is best suited as a 2, but can fill in as a 1 also.

We may run 3 or even 4 guard sets and conversely we may run 3 or even 4 big man sets. RM will truly have some major flexibility--assuming a lot of these things fall into place, but RL should be able to play a true big poisition--we all know that WR is going to dominate the lane next year, CR showed down the stretch that is going to be a force to reckoned with in the paint next year. How fun would this lineup be: WR, CR, RL, CE and take your pick on the guard--heck let cody bring it up and put JS in the game too. Then Cody can just shoot the ball from just inside half court and let the play above the rim take place.

It is definitely going to be fun and I can't wait.

Agree with you on most of your post, but JJ can not play the 1 unless he gets much better with the ball. That could happen but as of now he is not a capable 1 and won't have to be next year with both KM & MM able to handle all 40 minutes there.

[bsheldon]

Agree with you on most of your post, but JJ can not play the 1 unless he gets much better with the ball. That could happen but as of now he is not a capable 1 and won't have to be next year with both KM & MM able to handle all 40 minutes there.

Fair enough, I simply said that because he did fill in time to time this year, but mainly when the other team was not applying preassure. KC usually got the ball in those cases when KM was not on the floor--not KC's true position either.

With our motion high pick offense--once the ball is in play in the half court there really doesn't seem to be a ton of difference in what is demanded of the 1, 2, and 3 players. The 4 and 5 rotate up and down and do the picking.

Again, our flexibilty and depth is going to be fun to watch.

[Billikan]

I know we don't want to hear who may still leave, but I'd be shocked if JJ comes back. The reality of the situation has to be painfully clear to him.

With WR, RL, CE, BC, CR (who btw had his best game Wed. He was fantastic and relegated JS to the bench)and JS all getting minutes at the 4 and 5 and some at the 3. Probably at least 20 minutes a game will have 3 of those 6 players on the floor at one time.

Even if we only go 3 bigs 1/2 the time that leaves 100 minutes for guards. KM will get 30 and Cassity will get 25 as a minnimum whether some like it or not. McCall will get 20 minutes a game very quickly and CS will get 20 give or take. We now have a slashing 3 in DE also to get some minutes. How many minutes can JJ get. The thing is he's going into his sophmore year, does he want to spend his college basketball career as a guard who gets 5 possibly 10 minutes a game? Will we continue to sign even more players potentially better than him. The kid is a good player, he can score and there are many, many schools at the D1 level where he could be a main player and a big time scoring threat. I just don't think he can potentially be that at SLU. In years past, yes ... not anymore, and that's a good thing.

I think you are right in your analysis of the potential available minutes being reduced and it will be very interesting to see who steps up the most in the off season to "seize the day" and force the coach to give them minutes. JJ will be under a lot of pressure to play better defense and improve his ballhandling. On the other hand, up until now it seems like he has had a great attitude and he is one tough determined little guy when he gets on the court so if he can improve he might get a few minutes, particularly if we get injuries or foul trouble. At times, I felt better with him shooting an open 3 than anyone on the team. We went through spells where we seemed to have trouble even hitting the rim!!! MM should help immediately and I saw some flashes from CS late that would give me real hope that once he gets stronger he could be a real pure shooter. With Ellis and Loe in good shape and ready to bomb open shots and even Evans can shoot the 3, and Femi hit a few until he was hurt, and of course KM-- and a stronger KC we should have a myriad of options. It will be wonderful to have a team with real quality players at all positions and quality players off the bench. Have we ever been able to say that? Even Larry's team had its soft spots. On the other hand, this team does not have a Larry!

[bauman]

I know we don't want to hear who may still leave, but I'd be shocked if JJ comes back. The reality of the situation has to be painfully clear to him.

With WR, RL, CE, BC, CR (who btw had his best game Wed. He was fantastic and relegated JS to the bench)and JS all getting minutes at the 4 and 5 and some at the 3. Probably at least 20 minutes a game will have 3 of those 6 players on the floor at one time.

Even if we only go 3 bigs 1/2 the time that leaves 100 minutes for guards. KM will get 30 and Cassity will get 25 as a minnimum whether some like it or not. McCall will get 20 minutes a game very quickly and CS will get 20 give or take. We now have a slashing 3 in DE also to get some minutes. How many minutes can JJ get. The thing is he's going into his sophmore year, does he want to spend his college basketball career as a guard who gets 5 possibly 10 minutes a game? Will we continue to sign even more players potentially better than him. The kid is a good player, he can score and there are many, many schools at the D1 level where he could be a main player and a big time scoring threat. I just don't think he can potentially be that at SLU. In years past, yes ... not anymore, and that's a good thing.

You are absolutely right. If you just do the math like you did, not many minutes left for JJ and it won't get any better the following year with everyone back. Regarding the same situation, only with the bigs, I could see JS either redshirting to get MUCH stronger and developing an outside shot, OR leaving due to lack of PT. Give WR 25 min, RL 25 min, CE 25, BC 10-15, CR 10-15 and DE 10-15 then add in another 10 minutes per game for KC and CS splitting some minutes at the 3, AND that leaves no time for Mr Smith unless he makes some marked improvement over the off-season.

(Edit: I just noticed that I didn't even figure FJ into the equation)

All of the above means we will have the best depth we have EVER had. What a great job recruiting RM and his staff have done!

[bauman]

Majerus said last night that Remekun wouldn't redshirt next season, though of course its possible the coach could change his mind later.

Don't be surprised if Willie and Rob are almost the same height next season or if Rob is listed at 6-9 or 6-10.

Loe will likely play the four next to Willie. You will either have Loe and Ellis both competing for playing time at that spot or see Ellis move to the three. Majerus has said that Ellis needs to become a small forward to become a better player.

Long-time Billiken fans, when is the last time we have had a skilled, outside shooting "3" who is 6'8." Can you say NEVER?

Next two years should be very exciting times. Get your tickets now or you won't be able to get them.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Long-time Billiken fans, when is the last time we have had a skilled, outside shooting "3" who is 6'8." Can you say NEVER?

Next two years should be very exciting times. Get your tickets now or you won't be able to get them.

There was no 3 point rule at the time, but would the answer be Harry Rogers, 6'7"?

[bauman]

There was no 3 point rule at the time, but would the answer be Harry Rogers, 6'7"?

I didn't think we ever had one but you might be right-except when we had HR we didn't have the same level of other bigs as we do now. I know they didn't refer to positions by numbers back when HR played, but I would have thought he would have been a "4" given today's position ids. He surely had "3" skills. He was the type of player we faced often in CUSA and couldn't handle-seems like Mem. So Ms and/or UAB always had thin, athletic, jump-out-of-the-building 6'8" forwards.

[ACE]

I think you are right in your analysis of the potential available minutes being reduced and it will be very interesting to see who steps up the most in the off season to "seize the day" and force the coach to give them minutes. JJ will be under a lot of pressure to play better defense and improve his ballhandling. On the other hand, up until now it seems like he has had a great attitude and he is one tough determined little guy when he gets on the court so if he can improve he might get a few minutes, particularly if we get injuries or foul trouble. At times, I felt better with him shooting an open 3 than anyone on the team. We went through spells where we seemed to have trouble even hitting the rim!!! MM should help immediately and I saw some flashes from CS late that would give me real hope that once he gets stronger he could be a real pure shooter. With Ellis and Loe in good shape and ready to bomb open shots and even Evans can shoot the 3, and Femi hit a few until he was hurt, and of course KM-- and a stronger KC we should have a myriad of options. It will be wonderful to have a team with real quality players at all positions and quality players off the bench. Have we ever been able to say that? Even Larry's team had its soft spots. On the other hand, this team does not have a Larry!

I agree. I don't want to write JJ off so quickly. There are flaws in other parts of his game, but the kid scored nearly as much as Kyle and Christian in far fewer minutes. He often provided a little scoring spark off the bench and was probably our most consistent outside shooter. Look how quickly our guard depth became depleted this year after a few injuries. If JJ is fine with his role, we can still use him. If RM wants to play up-tempo, while KM or MM are on the bench, JJ is the guy.

[slufanskip]

I agree. I don't want to write JJ off so quickly. There are flaws in other parts of his game, but the kid scored nearly as much as Kyle and Christian in far fewer minutes. He often provided a little scoring spark off the bench and was probably our most consistent outside shooter. Look how quickly our guard depth became depleted this year after a few injuries. If JJ is fine with his role, we can still use him. If RM wants to play up-tempo, while KM or MM are on the bench, JJ is the guy.

I'm not thinking as if I'm SLU, I'm thinking as if I'm JJ. In reality, how many minutes are there for guards who are 6' or less?

[bsheldon]

I'm not thinking as if I'm SLU, I'm thinking as if I'm JJ. In reality, how many minutes are there for guards who are 6' or less?

Well, actually a ton, if your name rhymes with Dwamain Fitchell. But beyond that...?

[moytoy12]

Agree with you on most of your post, but JJ can not play the 1 unless he gets much better with the ball. That could happen but as of now he is not a capable 1 and won't have to be next year with both KM & MM able to handle all 40 minutes there.

I don't disagree that JJ needs to get better with the ball, but let's get some perspective.

JJ: 43 turnovers in 600 minutes

KM: 86 turnovers in 1148 minutes.

They had approximately the same ratio.

I also thought that KM was much looser with the ball than he should have been.

[brianstl]

Well, actually a ton, if your name rhymes with Dwamain Fitchell. But beyond that...?

Mike McCall

[brianstl]

Jordan was the best 3pt shooter on the team and his minutes started going up again at the end of the year. There is definitely a a pretty good size role on this team for him if he wants it.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Jordan was the best 3pt shooter on the team and his minutes started going up again at the end of the year. There is definitely a a pretty good size role on this team for him if he wants it.

Agreed- at times Justin Jordan was SLU's best outside shooter. He added some spark on offense off the bench in some games and hit some very big 3's. I would hope he stays at SLU. SLU still has to score points.

Here's hoping Femi John stays too- SLU could use him to guard bigger guards.

[JohnnyJumpUp]

Agreed- at times Justin Jordan was SLU's best outside shooter. He added some spark on offense off the bench in some games and hit some very big 3's. I would hope he stays at SLU. SLU still has to score points.

Here's hoping Femi John stays too- SLU could use him to guard bigger guards.

Jordan was the best outside shooter on the team if you go by 3pt%. I hope and expect to see JJ and FJ in Billiken Blue next season.

[billikenbill]

Agreed- at times Justin Jordan was SLU's best outside shooter. He added some spark on offense off the bench in some games and hit some very big 3's. I would hope he stays at SLU. SLU still has to score points.

Here's hoping Femi John stays too- SLU could use him to guard bigger guards.

With Femi having taken a redshirt year, and having to bounce back from knee surgery, I can't see him transferring to a D1 school. He could of course drop down to a lower level and not lose another year of eligibility. The logical candidates to leave are JS and JJ, although redshirting Smith next year would help balance out the classes, and open up some time for him later in his career.

Would hate to see JJ go, but at 5'9 he's too short for the two, and not enough of a handler for the one. Seemed like he was really coming on prior to the injury though. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[ACE]

Well, actually a ton, if your name rhymes with Dwamain Fitchell. But beyond that...?

Actually quite a few. Devon Downey from South Carolina and Jerome Randle from Cal, who is a heck of a player. I am not so worried about the size of our guards, I think quickness and skill are more important. We're not asking them to play power forward. Besides, Kyle and Christian give us size in the backcourt if RM and staff want to go that route.

[slufanskip]

Actually quite a few. Devon Downey from South Carolina and Jerome Randle from Cal, who is a heck of a player. I am not so worried about the size of our guards, I think quickness and skill are more important. We're not asking them to play power forward. Besides, Kyle and Christian give us size in the backcourt if RM and staff want to go that route.

How many other sub 6' guards play alongside Downey and Randle and what % of the minutes in a game do you suppose they are on the floor together? How many minutes do you expect he'll play?

You can of course be short and be a good D1 guard, generally those guys though are pg's. The thing is we will have 3 of 13 scholarship spots given to 6' or smaller guards. Can you really play all 40 minutes of a game with 2 guards of that size on the floor at all times and be a top 25-30 team? And if so, where do the minutes come from for KC, CS, FJ, and DE? Are we going to go with 3 guards all year and those 4 split the other 40 minutes at the guard?

It's not about whether JJ's a good player or not, it's about how he fits in here

[ACE]

How many other sub 6' guards play alongside Downey and Randle and what % of the minutes in a game do you suppose they are on the floor together? How many minutes do you expect he'll play?

You can of course be short and be a good D1 guard, generally those guys though are pg's. The thing is we will have 3 of 13 scholarship spots given to 6' or smaller guards. Can you really play all 40 minutes of a game with 2 guards of that size on the floor at all times and be a top 25-30 team? And if so, where do the minutes come from for KC, CS, FJ, and DE? Are we going to go with 3 guards all year and those 4 split the other 40 minutes at the guard?

It's not about whether JJ's a good player or not, it's about how he fits in here

At Kansas State, Pullen is listed at 6-0 and Clemente listed at 6-1. Something tells me if they played for RM, they would be listed below 6-foot. Mitchell was listed at 6-0 when he signed and I think I have seen McCall listed at 6-1. If JJ is fine being our 5th guard, great. This year showed us that you need five guards. Look at what happened when the injuries hit. We've had some decent under 6 foot guards come off the bench in the past - Fergerson, Macauley and Turner. Carlos Macauley was a guy who played a lot as a freshman, then played little as a soph and junior when Waldman came in, then after some graduations, Macauley got more minutes again as a senior. If Jordan is willing to do what Macauley did, there is definitely a place for him on this team.

[slufanskip]

At Kansas State, Pullen is listed at 6-0 and Clemente listed at 6-1. Something tells me if they played for RM, they would be listed below 6-foot. Mitchell was listed at 6-0 when he signed and I think I have seen McCall listed at 6-1. If JJ is fine being our 5th guard, great. This year showed us that you need five guards. Look at what happened when the injuries hit. We've had some decent under 6 foot guards come off the bench in the past - Fergerson, Macauley and Turner. Carlos Macauley was a guy who played a lot as a freshman, then played little as a soph and junior when Waldman came in, then after some graduations, Macauley got more minutes again as a senior. If Jordan is willing to do what Macauley did, there is definitely a place for him on this team.

How many of those were the third 6' or smaller guard?

We won't have 120 minutes to split among 4 guards, we'll have about 100. CE will play some 3. Lets say CE gets 15 minutes at the 3, that leaves 105. KM gets 30, leaving 75. KC gets 25 (and he will) that leaves 50. CS and MM get 18 each (they'll provbably get more, but for the sake of argument, we'll call it 18)

So now we have 14 minutes left to divide between these players

1. A 6'5" very athletic slashing freshman guard that we don't have anyone else on the roster like.

2. A 6'3" physical guard who potentially brings a defensive presence no one else on the roster brings

3. A 5'9" guard who can shoot but is basically just a smaller not as good version of 2 other players on the roster.

How do you divide the minutes? Would JJ actually be the 5th guard if you were the coach? He wouldn't be if I was.

and if you were JJ who could be a double digit scorer at a different school playing 25-30 minutes a game .... why would you stay here? Do you think we won't continue to recruit guards that will play over JJ?

Do you suppose we'll play 40 minutes a game with 2 6' or smaller guards? Let's say we do, 80 of our 200 minutes go to KM, MM, and JJ, how do you split the 40 minutes at the 3, 4, 5.

Let's start with the 3 ... we get 40 minutes to split between KC, CS, FJ, and DE. How does that work? That also means no time for CE at the 3.

No we get to the 4 and the 5. We have 80 minutes to split between WR, RL, CE, BC, and JS. Again, how does that work?

THe reality is we won't play 80 minutes between KM, MM, and JJ. CE will get some time at the 3. KC, and CS will get some time at the 2 and some time at the 3.

It's just simple math. There has to be an odd man out. We aren't going to go 13 deep, or 12, or 11, or probably even 10. The problem for JJ is that KM is just a year ahead of him and MM is a year behind him ... add to that we'll continue to recruit.

I'm not saying JJ isn't good. What I'm saying is he's to good to ride the pine and get mop up minutes for 2 years in hopes of getting 15 minutes a game as a Sr if we don't recruit someone else better. JJ was a scorer, it's what he does best. I can't imagine he wants to stop now.

[doowop]

I think you are right in your analysis of the potential available minutes being reduced and it will be very interesting to see who steps up the most in the off season to "seize the day" and force the coach to give them minutes. JJ will be under a lot of pressure to play better defense and improve his ballhandling. On the other hand, up until now it seems like he has had a great attitude and he is one tough determined little guy when he gets on the court so if he can improve he might get a few minutes, particularly if we get injuries or foul trouble. At times, I felt better with him shooting an open 3 than anyone on the team. We went through spells where we seemed to have trouble even hitting the rim!!! MM should help immediately and I saw some flashes from CS late that would give me real hope that once he gets stronger he could be a real pure shooter. With Ellis and Loe in good shape and ready to bomb open shots and even Evans can shoot the 3, and Femi hit a few until he was hurt, and of course KM-- and a stronger KC we should have a myriad of options. It will be wonderful to have a team with real quality players at all positions and quality players off the bench. Have we ever been able to say that? Even Larry's team had its soft spots. On the other hand, this team does not have a Larry!

You speak about bombing threes. SLU needs someone to help WR underneath. With the size SLU will have, a lot of points should come inside. We saw what happened to CE when his shot left him.

[ACE]

How many of those were the third 6' or smaller guard?

We won't have 120 minutes to split among 4 guards, we'll have about 100. CE will play some 3. Lets say CE gets 15 minutes at the 3, that leaves 105. KM gets 30, leaving 75. KC gets 25 (and he will) that leaves 50. CS and MM get 18 each (they'll provbably get more, but for the sake of argument, we'll call it 18)

So now we have 14 minutes left to divide between these players

1. A 6'5" very athletic slashing freshman guard that we don't have anyone else on the roster like.

2. A 6'3" physical guard who potentially brings a defensive presence no one else on the roster brings

3. A 5'9" guard who can shoot but is basically just a smaller not as good version of 2 other players on the roster.

How do you divide the minutes? Would JJ actually be the 5th guard if you were the coach? He wouldn't be if I was.

and if you were JJ who could be a double digit scorer at a different school playing 25-30 minutes a game .... why would you stay here? Do you think we won't continue to recruit guards that will play over JJ?

Do you suppose we'll play 40 minutes a game with 2 6' or smaller guards? Let's say we do, 80 of our 200 minutes go to KM, MM, and JJ, how do you split the 40 minutes at the 3, 4, 5.

Let's start with the 3 ... we get 40 minutes to split between KC, CS, FJ, and DE. How does that work? That also means no time for CE at the 3.

No we get to the 4 and the 5. We have 80 minutes to split between WR, RL, CE, BC, and JS. Again, how does that work?

THe reality is we won't play 80 minutes between KM, MM, and JJ. CE will get some time at the 3. KC, and CS will get some time at the 2 and some time at the 3.

It's just simple math. There has to be an odd man out. We aren't going to go 13 deep, or 12, or 11, or probably even 10. The problem for JJ is that KM is just a year ahead of him and MM is a year behind him ... add to that we'll continue to recruit.

I'm not saying JJ isn't good. What I'm saying is he's to good to ride the pine and get mop up minutes for 2 years in hopes of getting 15 minutes a game as a Sr if we don't recruit someone else better. JJ was a scorer, it's what he does best. I can't imagine he wants to stop now.

In his latest blog - Timmerman says McCall is 6-1 http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzone/bill...cruiting-class/

I'm pretty sure Claggett was listed at 6-1 and he played on the same team with both Macauley and Turner, so that is three there right around the 6-foot or a little below range. While H was the starter, Clag did play alongside CM and CT for stretches.

I am not sure I follow you with those 3 smaller guard getting 80 minutes. Cassity and Salecich will also fit in ahead of JJ, so we will not be playing two smaller guards too much.

I see JJ a little bit like Redford from Xavier. He's listed at 6-0, but he's not much bigger than JJ. He comes in for a few minutes a game and tries to provide a spark by hitting a few threes. Xavier also gives good minutes to two other guards who are right around 6-foot - Holloway and Lyons. Again, you put those three guards on a Majerus roster and they would be a couple inches shorter.

[doowop]

How many other sub 6' guards play alongside Downey and Randle and what % of the minutes in a game do you suppose they are on the floor together? How many minutes do you expect he'll play?

You can of course be short and be a good D1 guard, generally those guys though are pg's. The thing is we will have 3 of 13 scholarship spots given to 6' or smaller guards. Can you really play all 40 minutes of a game with 2 guards of that size on the floor at all times and be a top 25-30 team? And if so, where do the minutes come from for KC, CS, FJ, and DE? Are we going to go with 3 guards all year and those 4 split the other 40 minutes at the guard?

It's not about whether JJ's a good player or not, it's about how he fits in here

We played 40 minutes a game with bigger guards CS and KC and did not come near being a top 25-30 team.

[bsheldon]

Actually quite a few. Devon Downey from South Carolina and Jerome Randle from Cal, who is a heck of a player. I am not so worried about the size of our guards, I think quickness and skill are more important. We're not asking them to play power forward. Besides, Kyle and Christian give us size in the backcourt if RM and staff want to go that route.

I was replying as if he meant only on our team--also taking into account that MM is only 6'0" also. KM will get his minutes--probably around 28-32 a game. CS, KC, MM, & JJ will all be splitting up the remaining 8-12 minutes of KM's time and a full 40 of the 2 position. Plus you have the 3 position thrown in which KC and CS may both see time at off and on. At the 3 we will have CE for sure, hopefully DE is good enough to garner a big chunk of time right away, and JS--who also hopefully will improve over the offseason. If he hits the weight room he can become a real goo player.

There are several good small guards out there for sure and I wouldn't hesitate to put JJ in that category. Obviously some that have been mentioned are exceptional--both of the knucklheads at KST and Downey for sure. Heck OKSt plays two of them at the same time. JJ can play at this level for sure. He is a scorer first and foremost. If he works on the rest of his game he can be more than just a role player of minor contributor. As has been said many times--he outscores just about everyone on the team in a points per minute basis. Plus his D is VASTLY better now than it was at the beginning of the year. The last couple of games he was beyond scrappy and downright tenacious. I for one hope he stays a Billiken for 3 more years.