Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said: Unfortunately, I think that a merger wouldn't solve this. City's are ranked using their crime statistics regardless of what county they are in. A merger would only put the City of St. Louis into St. Louis County. It wouldn't eliminate its status as a municipality. Much like Kansas City is in Jackson County, St. Louis City would be in St. Louis County, but it's borders as a city would still exist as would the same crime rates. I've always wondered how municipal crime rates would be diluted with county crime stats barring a complete annexation of the county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, willie said: But I don't care about their rights. I care about what is good for the region,thus if we need to go to the state vote, so be it. Other than self determination and freedom to associate, what other rights are you willing to sacrifice for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Other than self determination and freedom to associate, what other rights are you willing to sacrifice for this? Whatever it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 hours ago, cheeseman said: I am not making a statement here other than perhaps you should read the plan before start spouting off. The plan does not make the City of StL the nexus of the govt. The County still is the unifying community group. The City simply becomes part of the County just as Ballwin, Chesterfield, and Bridgeton. There is more involved but you can read the plan and find those matters out. I have heard this "power grab" statement before and I am not sure where the power grab is - there will still be one man one vote in the election of every official. Now I know some have had problems with this wanting to be a State wide vote but perhaps you don't know that the original separation vote was State wide and it failed. It was over turned by the Missouri Supreme Court. Like I said I am not wanting to make this political but I do think we all have an obligation to at least speak factually. "The metropolitan city would have one mayor, one prosecuting attorney, one assessor and 33 council members. Its legislative and executive seat would be in downtown St. Louis, with other offices spread across the region." This is just one "fact" from the Post Dispatch's coverage of this plan. If that does not describe making the "City of StL the nexus of the govt" I don't know what to tell you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, willie said: Whatever it takes. Wow, just wow.....I suppose the St. Louis police could kill all of the mayors of all the municipalities in St. Louis County. That would do it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Billiken Rich said: Wow, just wow.....I suppose the St. Louis police could kill all of the mayors of all the municipalities in St. Louis County. That would do it..... Now you are being creative. JMM28 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, willie said: Now you are being creative. Sorry for exaggerating but rhetoric like "whatever it takes" is pretty extreme in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: "The metropolitan city would have one mayor, one prosecuting attorney, one assessor and 33 council members. Its legislative and executive seat would be in downtown St. Louis, with other offices spread across the region." This is just one "fact" from the Post Dispatch's coverage of this plan. If that does not describe making the "City of StL the nexus of the govt" I don't know what to tell you.... I'm not sure I understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Sorry for exaggerating but rhetoric like "whatever it takes" is pretty extreme in my opinion. Look all of this has to be legal but I believe the greater good is more important then the job of the mayor of hanley hills. dlarry likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: "The metropolitan city would have one mayor, one prosecuting attorney, one assessor and 33 council members. Its legislative and executive seat would be in downtown St. Louis, with other offices spread across the region." This is just one "fact" from the Post Dispatch's coverage of this plan. If that does not describe making the "City of StL the nexus of the govt" I don't know what to tell you.... The officials would be elected county wide so where the office is does not give that specific location anymore power. If anything, the City would have less influence since they only make up about 1/3 of the total population thus they would not be the nexus of power just a geographic location. Zink likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Box and Won said: I'm not sure I understand this. I don't think it's that difficult. The executive and legislative seat of power would be in downtown St. Louis, making that the nexus of power...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Box and Won said: I'm going to read the full report before I form an opinion on the plan. Commie! Fake news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, cheeseman said: The officials would be elected county wide so where the office is does give that specific location anymore power. If anything, the City would have less influence since they only make up about 1/3 of the total population thus they would not be the nexus of power just a geographic location. Washington DC is just a physical location too then....not a nexus of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 didnt louisville just recently do something similar to this? how is that working out? i dont know just wondering for comparison sakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, billiken_roy said: didnt louisville just recently do something similar to this? how is that working out? i dont know just wondering for comparison sakes. Probably 10 years ago. It has been great as has Nashville and Indianapolis. All of these cities are passing us bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, Billiken Rich said: Washington DC is just a physical location too then....not a nexus of power. You are completely missing the point - even in DC the elected officials are elected from around the country not just from DC. As I have tried to explain - the geographic location of the county seat does not mean that location has control of the county. Do you think the city of Clayton makes all the decisions for StL County - of course not in reality but perhaps in your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, billiken_roy said: didnt louisville just recently do something similar to this? how is that working out? i dont know just wondering for comparison sakes. Never underestimate the ability of St Louis to screw up even a great plan ( not that Im saying this is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: I don't think it's that difficult. The executive and legislative seat of power would be in downtown St. Louis, making that the nexus of power...... It's gotta be based somewhere. I don't see what difference it makes. Also, I would be interested to see how the 33-person council breaks down and what purposes are served by the other offices that would be located throughout the region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I bet the City is just preparing the tanks to roll westward as we speak. Premier Krewson will soon turn the rivers red with the blood of the infidels. I don't get why any good conservative would be against this. It would dilute the power of a democratic city. It would reduce the size of government. It would be good for the entire area from a development, tax, business friendly, and many other standpoints. What is the drawback? Besides not running into a dozen mayors of 8,000 populace "cities" on your way to buy a pack of smokes? cheeseman likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 -yeah, let's just put more people in the equation so we can look the other way on crime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Billiken Rich said: I don't think it's that difficult. The executive and legislative seat of power would be in downtown St. Louis, making that the nexus of power...... I guess if you're talking about where the government business physically take place you are correct about "nexus of power", but I don't think most people have that same definition. Most people would consider "nexus of power" to mean who holds the most political power regardless of where government business takes place. Example: Is Jefferson City the "nexus of power" in the state of Missouri? I don't think it is tough to argue that the municipalities of St. Louis and Kansas City each wield way more power politically over the state than the actual municipality of Jefferson City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, cheeseman said: You are completely missing the point - even in DC the elected officials are elected from around the country not just from DC. As I have tried to explain - the geographic location of the county seat does not mean that location has control of the county. Do you think the city of Clayton makes all the decisions for StL County - of course not in reality but perhaps in your mind. No but there is more to it than just a physical location and you know it. No one in Fenton, or Chesterfield, or Hanley Hills, or Florissant or Valley Park would ever vote to be forced to go hit in hand to the super mayor in the City as opposed to the local mayor who coached their kid's soccer team. It is immoral in my opinion to force them to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, Cowboy said: -yeah, let's just put more people in the equation so we can look the other way on crime Every city has hot spots when it comes to crime. We would be no different. The problem is to others outside of our area we all get tared by the same brush. My son-in-law who is from WI and now lives in Chicago asked me early on if StL has 300K people how do you support 3 pro teams? He was surprised to learn that the region has 7 times that population. It is such a dumb situation that others simply can not imagine why it exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, JMM28 said: I bet the City is just preparing the tanks to roll westward as we speak. Premier Krewson will soon turn the rivers red with the blood of the infidels. I don't get why any good conservative would be against this. It would dilute the power of a democratic city. It would reduce the size of government. It would be good for the entire area from a development, tax, business friendly, and many other standpoints. What is the drawback? Besides not running into a dozen mayors of 8,000 populace "cities" on your way to buy a pack of smokes? Centralized government is bad by definition if you have more faith in the power of smaller disconnected groups. Ultimately it's a religious argument. Who can argue with a man's religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, JMM28 said: I bet the City is just preparing the tanks to roll westward as we speak. Premier Krewson will soon turn the rivers red with the blood of the infidels. I don't get why any good conservative would be against this. It would dilute the power of a democratic city. It would reduce the size of government. It would be good for the entire area from a development, tax, business friendly, and many other standpoints. What is the drawback? Besides not running into a dozen mayors of 8,000 populace "cities" on your way to buy a pack of smokes? Premier Krewson is not a bad person from my dealings with her. She would also never be the super mayor. The power of the county would shift irrevocably left if the post's reporting of this plan is correct. This is not a good thing in my opinion. Those dozen mayors you deride, were elected by the people locally. A group City dwellers fromm accross the state shouldn't be allowed to overturn their wishes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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