OT: Midtown Development

[WestCoastBilliken]

According to NextSTL, Ikea will be moving next to SLU on Forest Park and Vandy.

Big news for the area.

http://nextstl.com/central-corridor/ikea-notes

[White Pelican]

According to NextSTL, Ikea will be moving next to SLU on Forest Park and Vandy.

Big news for the area.

http://nextstl.com/central-corridor/ikea-notes

Yeah, a friend has been texting me about this. She's very excited, me not so much. I told her I'll believe it when I see it. IF an IKEA ever comes here, I'd expect it to be in Chesterfield or the like.

[DirtyRican]

Yes and no. The Grand Center and CWE MetroLink stops really aren't all that convenient. The Grand Center stop seems more important as a connection spot for bus lines, and the CWE stop basically just serves BJC. Whereas MetroLink is geared toward commuters, the streetcar line is supposed to serve a different ridership. I'm not all that familiar with the thinking behind the streetcar line, but that's my guess.

There's also a proposed line that would extend north from downtown - up 14th Street to Crown Candy.

This is nice, aren't we already one of the fattest cities in America? Now we can get a streetcar to drop people off to eat bacon and milkshakes? All for it!

[WestCoastBilliken]

Yeah, a friend has been texting me about this. She's very excited, me not so much. I told her I'll believe it when I see it. IF an IKEA ever comes here, I'd expect it to be in Chesterfield or the like.

Its exciting news, as I thought Ikea was done with St Louis. Though, I won't believe its real until ground breaks.

Ikea never wanted to go to Chesterfield. Midtown is a great location, its central for St Louis and Illinois, easy ingress and egress with the Metrolink/64 Freeway / Forest Park. Ikea originally wanted to move to Brentwood off Hanley across from the Mcdonalds. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but some of the homeowners got greedy and wanted a substantial amount more from Ikea and so Ikea walked on the deal.

CWE is booming -- Cortex is developing and adding 1400 jobs there, Whole Foods deveopment, Barnes Jewish is doing a billion dollar renovation, tons of multi family development going on in The Grove.

[bonwich]

Ikea never wanted to go to Chesterfield. Midtown is a great location, its central for St Louis and Illinois, easy ingress and egress with the Metrolink/64 Freeway / Forest Park. Ikea originally wanted to move to Brentwood off Hanley across from the Mcdonalds. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but some of the homeowners got greedy and wanted a substantial amount more from Ikea and so Ikea walked on the deal.

I'll correct you. The so-called "greedy" homeowners have had their homes essentially held hostage for more than a decade as a series of development schemes -- which involved buying out and or "condemning" an entire, largely occupied lower middle class neighborhood -- failed. One of the development plans, centered on a Menards, is moving forward. (No doubt to the great benefit of the area, which already has a Lowe's and a Home Depot across the street from each other.) And Ikea may or may not have ever truly been interested -- it's been named as a potential tenant in roughly a dozen plans all over the area in the past 15 years. (I guess the folks at Northwest Plaza are going to be pissed at Midtown.)

I also believe the municipality in question is Maplewood, not Brentwood.

[WestCoastBilliken]

I'll correct you. The so-called "greedy" homeowners have had their homes essentially held hostage for more than a decade as a series of development schemes -- which involved buying out and or "condemning" an entire, largely occupied lower middle class neighborhood -- failed. One of the development plans, centered on a Menards, is moving forward. (No doubt to the great benefit of the area, which already has a Lowe's and a Home Depot across the street from each other.) And Ikea may or may not have ever truly been interested -- it's been named as a potential tenant in roughly a dozen plans all over the area in the past 15 years. (I guess the folks at Northwest Plaza are going to be pissed at Midtown.)

I also believe the municipality in question is Maplewood, not Brentwood.

Thanks, I didn't mean Greedy in any other way then I heard said few homeowners were willing to sell, but kept upping the price until Ikea eventually walked on the deal.

[bomble]

According to NextSTL, Ikea will be moving next to SLU on Forest Park and Vandy.

Big news for the area.

http://nextstl.com/central-corridor/ikea-notes

Really? Damn. I wish I could have snacked on Swedish horse meatballs and lingonberries during my days at SLU.

[White Pelican]

I'll correct you. The so-called "greedy" homeowners have had their homes essentially held hostage for more than a decade as a series of development schemes -- which involved buying out and or "condemning" an entire, largely occupied lower middle class neighborhood -- failed. One of the development plans, centered on a Menards, is moving forward. (No doubt to the great benefit of the area, which already has a Lowe's and a Home Depot across the street from each other.) And Ikea may or may not have ever truly been interested -- it's been named as a potential tenant in roughly a dozen plans all over the area in the past 15 years. (I guess the folks at Northwest Plaza are going to be pissed at Midtown.)

I also believe the municipality in question is Maplewood, not Brentwood.

I believe the Hadley Township area is in Richmond Heights. Maplewood has the Lowes, Brentwood has the Home Depot and Rich. Hts. would then have a Menards. Something for everyone. That's assuming my geography is correct.

[Box and Won]

It will be interesting to see if this will ever come to fruition. Over the years there have been vague rumors of a Target going in at the old Federal Mogul plant on Forest Park at Spring. If Ikea were to sign a deal down the street, perhaps the Target rumors will heat up again.

[West Pine Jim]

I believe the Hadley Township area is in Richmond Heights. Maplewood has the Lowes, Brentwood has the Home Depot and Rich. Hts. would then have a Menards. Something for everyone. That's assuming my geography is correct.

Your geography is correct, sir.

[BillikenLaw]

I believe the Hadley Township area is in Richmond Heights. Maplewood has the Lowes, Brentwood has the Home Depot and Rich. Hts. would then have a Menards. Something for everyone. That's assuming my geography is correct.

Only in St. Louis can we justify having three of (what is essentially) the same store within minutes of each other so that each provincial municipality can be served individually.

[Box and Won]

Only in St. Louis can we justify having three of (what is essentially) the same store within minutes of each other so that each provincial municipality can be served individually.

It's not uncommon for Lowe's to build stores in close proximity to Home Depots. It wouldn't surprise me if Menard's does the same thing.

I do agree that our ridiculous number of municipalities is a problem, however.

[MusicCityBilliken]

It's not uncommon for Lowe's to build stores in close proximity to Home Depots.

I never understood this. The ones here Georgia where I live, they are across the street, in NC, they are next door.

Same with Walgreens and CVS

[ARon]

There is nothing really wrong with having competitors locate near each other. The problem is when a developer gets millions in tax dollars/tax abatement to build a new big box so an existing store can move a mile or so down the road.

[brianstl]

It's not uncommon for Lowe's to build stores in close proximity to Home Depots. It wouldn't surprise me if Menard's does the same thing.

I do agree that our ridiculous number of municipalities is a problem, however.

With them all hurting their local school districts and local property owners as they give away tax money.

[SShoe]

It will be interesting to see if this will ever come to fruition. Over the years there have been vague rumors of a Target going in at the old Federal Mogul plant on Forest Park at Spring. If Ikea were to sign a deal down the street, perhaps the Target rumors will heat up again.

Because Ikea would essentially be part of the Cortex redevelopment plan and its TIF, this has more legs than the Target development ever did. That being said, don't be surprised to see additional major retail development spurred by Ikea. By the way, that Federal Mogul site is supposedly all kinds of contaminated.

[Billiken Rich]

I never understood this. The ones here Georgia where I live, they are across the street, in NC, they are next door.

Same with Walgreens and CVS

The thing is that choice is a great thing. Competition is a good thing. When it's 5:45 pm on a Sunday evening and that chunk of old chome plated waste line disintigrates in your hand as you try to reconect the sink trap you want a big box hardware store as close as possible. Mom and pop, take Sunday off, sorts of places just suck no matter how much some urban dwellers would like to turn back time.......

[brianstl]

The thing is that choice is a great thing. Competition is a good thing. When it's 5:45 pm on a Sunday evening and that chunk of old chome plated waste line disintigrates in your hand as you try to reconect the sink trap you want a big box hardware store as close as possible. Mom and pop, take Sunday off, sorts of places just suck no matter how much some urban dwellers would like to turn back time.......

I don't have a problem with them. I actually shop the big box hardware stores. I do think it is stupid on the part of local governments to give away tax dollars to them. If their business model is that good they wouldn't need them.

[MusicCityBilliken]

The thing is that choice is a great thing. Competition is a good thing. When it's 5:45 pm on a Sunday evening and that chunk of old chome plated waste line disintigrates in your hand as you try to reconect the sink trap you want a big box hardware store as close as possible. Mom and pop, take Sunday off, sorts of places just suck no matter how much some urban dwellers would like to turn back time.......

My gripe is not with the stores, its when you don't live close to these clusters.

Have a story, hate MickeyD's and most fast food joints. They seem to be everywhere and always in a cluster. I was driving on 78 from Birmingham to Memphis, getting really hungry and would stopped at any greasy spoon, For hours it was nothing, nada.

[Billiken Rich]

I don't have a problem with them. I actually shop the big box hardware stores. I do think it is stupid on the part of local governments to give away tax dollars to them. If their business model is that good they wouldn't need them.

I agree with you there but the jobs are also a good thing and until everybody swears off tax credits it's a GD arms race. Cant' really blame the businesses for selling to the highest bidder.

[Billiken Rich]

My gripe is not with the stores, its when you don't live close to these clusters.

Have a story, hate MickeyD's and most fast food joints. They seem to be everywhere and always in a cluster. I was driving on 78 from Birmingham to Memphis, getting really hungry and would stopped at any greasy spoon, For hours it seemed nothing, nada.

Move out of the stix pal.......

[Bobby Metzinger]

I never understood this. The ones here Georgia where I live, they are across the street, in NC, they are next door.

Same with Walgreens and CVS

I refuse to go to Lowes because of Jimmie Johnson and the 48 car.

Also, Menards is better.

[WestCoastBilliken]

With them all hurting their local school districts and local property owners as they give away tax money.

And what money are they "giving away"?

Bringing in a couple hundred jobs, new development in a lacking area, creating an environment with foot and car traffic allowing other businesses to open and develop nearby, all for 10 years of tax abatement, when the alternative is empty, dilapidated and run down real estate?

I call that a win.

[Billiken Rich]

I refuse to go to Lowes because of Jimmie Johnson and the 48 car.

Also, Menards is better.

I always think of prison instead of hardware......

[bonwich]

And what money are they "giving away"?

Bringing in a couple hundred jobs, new development in a lacking area, creating an environment with foot and car traffic allowing other businesses to open and develop nearby, all for 10 years of tax abatement, when the alternative is empty, dilapidated and run down real estate?

I call that a win.

There are two fully developed shopping centers, several hotels and a MetroLink stop within 1/4 mile of said "dilapidated and run-down real estate." (And perhaps $200M in development less than a mile away.) The land is very close to Highway 40 and within a small radius of a huge customer base.

The issue here, as it has been for decades in St. Louis, is all the mousefart municipalities giving away the store (literally) to get their share of retail tax base. That base never rises (note the overall growth rate for St. Louis City and County in the past 30-40 years); and virtually every academic or civic study in that time period shows that retail contributes nothing to real job growth.

BTW, you wanna see dilapidated and run-down real estate, take a drive out Manchester west of 270 (and note the number of empty big-box stores that are less than 30 years old).