ARon Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 1:48 PM, cgeldmacher said: I just don't think that's accurate. Just because this commission says it will happen this way, doesn't mean it will. The merger will not create big Mega City like someone suggested. The City of St. Louis's borders will still exist. The police departments being combined will not change what is the City of St. Louis any more than Chicago trying to claim the crime statistics of Oakbrook. When the articles about crime statistics are written, the authors don't use metropolitan areas and they don't use entire counties. They use city borders, like Chicago, Memphis, Indianapolis. The idea that merging the City and County will drop our reported crime statistics is as naive as thinking that Detroit should be able to start considering the entirety of Wayne County, Michigan for its crime statistics. Detroit doesn't get to include Dearborn, Michigan in its stats just like St. Louis won't get to count Chesterfield in its stats. The writers of these articles choose not to include entire counties in their numbers for reason. They're not going to be tricked into doing it differently. I think you have this wrong. This would have been true for previous unification efforts but this one is indeed structured differently. Under BT’s proposal, not only will the county lines be re-drawn, but the nature of every municipality within it be redefined. They would become new entities called municipal districts, an entity the state would not recognize as a municipality as we think of them today. This includes the City of St. Louis. So Chesterfield for example would not be treated as a city like it is now, but closer to area like Affton is right now. It would have no population to be counted distinctly as everyone would be included in the City’s (Metro-City) count. There have been some who have suggested the Census Bureau will need to weigh in on how they will handle this to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, ARon said: I think you have this wrong. This would have been true for previous unification efforts but this one is indeed structured differently. Under BT’s proposal, not only will the county lines be re-drawn, but the nature of every municipality within it be redefined. They would become new entities called municipal districts, an entity the state would not recognize as a municipality as we think of them today. This includes the City of St. Louis. So Chesterfield for example would not be treated as a city like it is now, but closer to area like Affton is right now. It would have no population to be counted distinctly as everyone would be included in the City’s (Metro-City) count. There have been some who have suggested the Census Bureau will need to weigh in on how they will handle this to be sure. exactly right...…… some of those making fun of my "super mayor" jibe need to actually read the damn better together proposal...…….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 1:52 PM, cgeldmacher said: Also, if what you are saying is true about this Super Mayor nonsense, then we would be unlike any other city in the country. Can you imagine Chicago having Super Mayor over all of Cook County? We'd go from being ridiculous one way to being more ridiculous the other. The Mayor of New York is ultimately the chief executive over five counties. Slu let the dogs out? likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 17 hours ago, ARon said: I think you have this wrong. This would have been true for previous unification efforts but this one is indeed structured differently. Under BT’s proposal, not only will the county lines be re-drawn, but the nature of every municipality within it be redefined. They would become new entities called municipal districts, an entity the state would not recognize as a municipality as we think of them today. This includes the City of St. Louis. So Chesterfield for example would not be treated as a city like it is now, but closer to area like Affton is right now. It would have no population to be counted distinctly as everyone would be included in the City’s (Metro-City) count. There have been some who have suggested the Census Bureau will need to weigh in on how they will handle this to be sure. The problems is that someone writing an article about crime statistics for Yahoo or USA Today doesn't have to use that criteria. They make judgement calls all over the country about what borders to use. A "journalist," I hesitate to call the people that write these articles journalists, could just say that counting all of St. Louis County is no different than counting all of Jackson County, Missouri or Cook County, Illinois and decide that's not what they should use. Then they just go back to using the statistics for the municipal district of St. Louis. The flaw in your logic is assuming that the Better Together board and its ideas have any sway over someone writing an article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: The problems is that someone writing an article about crime statistics for Yahoo or USA Today doesn't have to use that criteria. They make judgement calls all over the country about what borders to use. A "journalist," I hesitate to call the people that write these articles journalists, could just say that counting all of St. Louis County is no different than counting all of Jackson County, Missouri or Cook County, Illinois and decide that's not what they should use. Then they just go back to using the statistics for the municipal district of St. Louis. The flaw in your logic is assuming that the Better Together board and its ideas have any sway over someone writing an article. When they write the articles the just copy and paste the information in the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. The FBI would consider the combined city and county as one city. The FBI doesn’t compile crime information for municipal districts. Slu let the dogs out? likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 10:15 AM, JMM28 said: https://www.abell.org/sites/default/files/publications/cd-louisvillemerger1013.pdf Just found this on the Louisville merger. Interesting read. Not sure of any biases/similarities https://tinyurl.com/y9ezrxm7 Just found this article on the Indy merger. Shows some expectations vs. results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said: https://tinyurl.com/y9ezrxm7 Just found this article on the Indy merger. Shows some expectations vs. results. It is hard to tell anything without seeing the actual audit. The consolidation could have actually saved the predicted amount or more if the numbers are not adjusted for inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, brianstl said: When they write the articles the just copy and paste the information in the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. The FBI would consider the combined city and county as one city. The FBI doesn’t compile crime information for municipal districts. Are we positive the FBI would report the whole region or divide it up somehow? You might be right, but this commission saying its going to have a certain effect and not being right is a very St. Louis thing to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said: Are we positive the FBI would report the whole region or divide it up somehow? You might be right, but this commission saying its going to have a certain effect and not being right is a very St. Louis thing to happen. The won't split it up. Local law enforcement agencies send it to the FBI and then the FBI reports what the numbers are for the whole area served by that local law enforcement agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: Are we positive the FBI would report the whole region or divide it up somehow? You might be right, but this commission saying its going to have a certain effect and not being right is a very St. Louis thing to happen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Crime_Reports Third paragraph down: "The FBI does not collect the data itself. Rather, law enforcement agencies across the United States provide the data to the FBI, which then compiles the Reports." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, brianstl said: The won't split it up. Local law enforcement agencies send it to the FBI and then the FBI reports what the numbers are for the whole area served by that local law enforcement agency. If the merger goes through, and there are other concerns other than just this, then I hope you and this commission are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said: If the merger goes through, and there are other concerns other than just this, then I hope you and this commission are right. I agree there are concerns that need to be addressed with the plan. I am just afraid that both sides will be less than honest with the numbers they bring out. JohnnyJumpUp likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slu let the dogs out? Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Nice article in Forbes on the New Angad Arts Hotel in Grand Center which opened recently: https://www.forbes.com/sites/katiebell/2019/01/31/meet-me-in-st-louis-at-the-stylish-new-angad-arts-hotel/#7cb9a86a42a5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clocktoweraccords2004 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 At this point why hasn’t Chaifetz bought Humps and just call it “Chaifetz pub” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said: At this point why hasn’t Chaifetz bought Humps and just call it “Chaifetz pub” Heard recently that SLU owns it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said: At this point why hasn’t Chaifetz bought Humps and just call it “Chaifetz pub” that could get real confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: Heard recently that SLU owns it Maybe open it under a new name, Pestello's Pub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said: Maybe open it under a new name, Pestello's Pub Idk, Title IX pub has a good ring to it, plus its already a household name for many st louisan's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 hours ago, wgstl said: Idk, Title IX pub has a good ring to it, plus its already a household name for many st louisan's. Don't try to have Ladies Night there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 23 minutes ago, almaman said: Don't try to have Ladies Night there. Just bring a stack of consent forms.....you'll be fine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said: Just bring a stack of consent forms.....you'll be fine.... Not if they have been drinking. That voids everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almaman Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 33 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Not if they have been drinking. That voids everything. The Catch 22 of modern mating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoon-Balls Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 6 hours ago, billikenfan05 said: Heard recently that SLU owns it Disappointing if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, Spoon-Balls said: Disappointing if true. City website still shows it owned by V&B properties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 SIAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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