Jump to content

Illinois Prep Bulls-eye - Matt Roth


Recommended Posts

Guest BillikenReport

>Nate, do you think John would be a good get? Is he more of a

>2 or a 3?

Femi John is a shooting guard.

He's a guy who can catch and shoot on the wing, drive to the basket or pull-up and shoot the mid-range jumper. He's a good athlete and he's got a good body (he doesn't need to add weight)

I think John will be a nice player in a couple years, when he gets more consistency on his jumper. Now he's more of a slasher-type scorer who can run and jump and also score in transition.

I don't see John as a guy who will come in and contribute right away, mainly because he'll be fighting for playing time with Liddell, Lisch, Relphorde, Maguire, Eckerle and Mitchell in a crowded shooting guard spot.

Matt Roth is a different player. Roth is a pure shooter. The Billikens want Roth to come in and shoot it from all over the place. That's not John's game — though I think he could do some of that down the line.

- Nate

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

I wouldn't call a 6"4-6"5 SG a tweener. To me, a tweener is somebody who is undersized at their position. These guys would have plenty of height to play the perimieter. I'd add Maurice Jeffers as a successful 6'4 guy. AM is 6'5...that's pretty good size for a guard.

At this point, based soley on video clips and internet articles, I think I'd take Roth...which is a different postion than I held a few weeks ago. I'm so used to not having a lot of athletes that can create on our team, so FJ seemed like the better guy. However, if RM is going to step up recruiting and get us some athletic guys (i.e. KM, JP, maybe Suggs), we will need the guy who will drain the 3. That guys seems to be Roth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if i had to choose between john and roth, i'd take john simply because of his athleticism he has far more upside than the best "around the world" player in the midwest. if liddell could learn to shoot in one summer of hard work, whatever shooting shortcomings john has (which are less than what tommie had coming into slu) can be corrected as well if john is dedicated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Henry, I will admit it - I want Matt to be a Billiken. I want him to far exceed all expectations I currently hold for him. I also want people to temper their expectations from what the normal expectations for a first team Illinois all stater, and the third best player in the state, and the advertised best sharpshooter would be in a normal year. Please don't try to put words in my mouth.

Recognize that Matt is an Illinois first team all stater as a two star player, a situation similar to Dustin Maguire's, and not far removed from Drew Diener's - and Matt definitely is not the next John Scheyer, a normal Illinois SG repping on first team.

We will get along a lot better if you quit fractalling your factuals; there is a vast gulf between a first team all state SG who goes on to start at Duke as a freshman, and a first team all state SG who will fight for minutes his freshman year at SLU.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roy, it seems like we have all pretty much decided that FJ would play the 2---he is not a 1 and is probably smaller than desirable for a 3 (hence my reference to him being a 'tweener). If he is, in fact, a SG only, and he is not an especially strong shooter at this point I struggle with why he is a priority to get. I know we are in a new coaching regime now, but it seems like most average-above average high school shooters do NOT improve their shooting ability in college e.g. DM, DP, LM & DB of our current squad. TL's improvement is unusual and is a real credit for his work etnic and Brad's teaching ability.

If we are recruiting for a 2/SG, I'd prefer someone who is already a great shooter over a slasher who we think can improve his shooting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't Virgil Cobbin 6-4? It's interesting that you choose to break down players by the inch, rather than position. I believe Darren Clark was 6-4, but I guess he doesn't qualify as being a real contributor to Billiken success. And H Waldman was 6-4, wasn't he? He was a point guard. Was Highmark 6-5?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bauman, from what i have read, roth is indeed an excellent shooter. however i havent heard anything but shooting to describe him. i.e. he isnt going to create his own shot. what he gets off in high school vs 5'9" shooting guards that guard him, wont happen in the a-10 vs 6'4" sg's. he has to have some athleticism to be able to carry that superb skill to the next level and continue to be effective.

from what i have heard, john's shooting is not that bad. he doesnt shoot as much simply because he is strong enough and athletic enough to many times blow by his defender. why the hell should he settle for a 20 footer if he can get to the rim?

is he a better shooter than roth? by all accounts, no. but in every other aspect he is the superior player plus not as bad of a shooter as most are making it out to be.

i'd take john.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My point wasn't to quibble about 1", but rather to look at that approximate height. Six-four is generally bigger than the vast majority of PGs and smaller than the vast majority of 3s(PF). What I was attempting to say was that you ned to bring something special to the table to excel at that height, like MD, and to add an inch TL & SH.

I don't believe H was 6'4", more like 6'2", but let's assume he was 6'4"-he would be making my point as he brought lots more to the table-great shooter, passer & leader. I believe SH was always listed as 6'5", although he may have been 6'4"--again that makes my point-SH was an outstanding shooter. Re VC, i think you can say exactly what I just said about SH. Again DC makes my case-he wasn't skilled enough to play the 1, or big enough to play the 3 therefore he had to be a 2 and he wasn't good enough to do it.

As I've said elsewhere, if FJ comes to SLU I hope I am wrong about him and I probably am since most of you disagree with me about getting him. I just would prefer JP and SS if possible and combine those 2 with MR and AM this year and it seems to me that we are full up with slashers at the expense of good 3-pt shooters especially when KL & TL leave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bauman, one thing i think is under estimated a lot when looking at the high school kids is that the great athlete in high school doesnt show his shot as much because he doesnt have to.

the pure shooter many times is the kid like diener that never had the god given ability to dunk over centers and beat track stars on crossovers. so they show the shot in high school more and get labeled such.

my point is that i would expect someone of relephorde, mitchell(s), suggs, perry, john, to be a better shooter than what folks are thinking now.

plus with the added size, athleticism and strength, you have players that wont be a defensive liability against the bigger stronger athletic guards that we have seen at xu or gwu for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

correct me if I'm wrong, but someone posted his stats at 28% from the 3. If that is correct ... I wouldn't call him a good shooter.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are making it sound easier to improve one's shooting than it really is. The vast majority of kids that are athletic and not good shooters coming out of HS don't ever become good shooters. Roth is what he is a big time shooter. We will have 2 6'10 to 7' big men, plus MR and AM who are more slasher type players. I want someone who can keep the D honest. I'd take Roth and for me it is an easy choice. Not saying I don't want Femi ... but at this point regardless of names, I'd rather have the big time shooter.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol...I am not looking to get along nor to have a disagreement. I am amused, however, at the lengths you go (e.g. Claggett and Turner) to disparage the ability and potential of Roth. No one has ever said on this board that he is the best player in Illinois. Unlike you, however, I am very excited by the talents he currently possess. Also, unlike you, I refuse to by into the nonsense that his future and potential are limited. I don't know how good he will be but I sure hope I find out while he is wearing Billiken blue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

while sheltie might rub some here the wrong way and he might not describe every situation politically correct, i trust his eye for talent and skills of players he has seen. he isnt wrong much that i can remember. my fear from reading sheltie is that roth is more drew diener than kevin lisch. if you are telling me is the more athletic drake diener, then i might be more interested.

as bauman pointed out in another thread, it is a lot of fun to be able to actually talk about recruits and their attributes. teh biggest gripe i had with soderberg was the CIA atmosphere of who they were approaching.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i only read the roth stuff the first time, but going back i saw where anthony beane has taken an asst job with illinois state.

it now appears that only grunkenmeyer and soderberg are unemployed from the soderberg era.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> correct me if I'm wrong, but someone posted his stats at

>28% from the 3. If that is correct ... I wouldn't call him a

>good shooter.

>

>

> Official Billikens.com sponsor of H

>Waldman

>

>Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would

>have helped club.

The way he shoots it jumping so high and shooting so high above his head like Rasheed Wallace, I think its hard for him to shoot a stand still 3, I think he has to be running into the shot or he wont get the necessary lift to keep his 3 point shot from going short. In the midrange game he is a VERY good shooter and has a nearly unblockable release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Femi is a good shooter, just from midrange and not from 3. Knocking down the midrange shots that Luke was taking last year is just as important as being able to knock down 3's. Femi is very good in the midrange. Even Nate Latsch has said that his pull-up jumper is special . In fact, he said it even before I did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A great 3 point shooter will keep the D more honest (and less likely to clog up the half court offense) than an equally great mid-range shooter. If the D is sagging because there is no 3 point threat, then the mid-range shooter will be less likely to drive and/or pull up for the midrange shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ace, if you closely followed the board when this was brought up over a year ago, VTime did out himself as ProBlack, who definitely had a history on various local sports sites. Ask Nate about it.

VTime has either learned how to better mask some of his feelings, or hopefully matured a little in his viewpoints.

As far as recruiting, getting Mitchell gave RM the flexibility to make multiple guard offers and bring pressure for an early decision. Mitchell is the key guard to get, and we got him. Roth will be the next critical get if there are any plans to play the twin towers for long periods, as space may be limited for drives in the lane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sounds to me like he has bad form which in most cases will limit his potential to be a great shooter if not corrected. I'm amazed youth and HS coaches don't work more on correcting shooting flaws.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Drew's problem was as much his skill level as it was his desire. Notice some of his best games were against other Deiners.

Official Billikens.com sponsor of H Waldman

Official Sponser of the Stemmler and Ahearn could and would have helped club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...