Maybe no one cares but...

[Taj79]

... to make someone a Billiken? I take it that most seem to be centered on the fact that if a guy goes to University X and that is his only school, no matter the number of years he plays, he is always an "X-er," correct? Graduation notwithstanding plus he or she cannot go somewhere else and finish ala Ricky Frazier, Ricky Cranford, Jason Edwin, Julian Winfield, etc.

Larry Hughes is a Billiken. Anthony Jones. Ramon Trice. Monroe Douglas. Chip Entwhistle. Tyrone Caswell. Evan Pedersen. Jamal Johnson. Brian Smith. Erwin Claggett. Lew McKinney. Willie Becton. Lamont Turner. Kevin Williams. Mark Rohde. How about Mark Alcorn?

Seems to me that there should be more requirements for getting into such a club. Are Obi and Horace Billikens forever if they don't ever reemerge somewhere else? Seems to me they should .... you can't just limit it to the guy playing for the NBA ring. Seems prejudicial in some ways.

I'm done with apologies to kshoe. I don't consider Larry any more the Billiken than John Seyfert or Floyd McClain.

[slufanskip]

I would say of course Larry is a Bill and one I loved watching, but due to the fact he only played one year I didn't have the chance to "get to know" Larry as much as many others. For example my 2 favorite Bills of all time Jeff Harris and Marque Perry.

John Seyfort rarely played. Larry led the Bills to the 2nd round of the NCAA tourney. There is a huge difference.

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[billiken_roy]

seyfert and mclain both left the billikens to play for different college teams. hughes only college team was saint louis university.

[Taj79]

.... but neither of you listed criteria. I'd like to hear it as I respect both thought patterns.

I thought McClain bombed out along the injury route. Yes, Seifert did go Big Sky and return home. Where did McClain end up? Pretty sad though, I seem to recall he was listed as a Romar Top 100 recruit and we never saw him play.

What about Brian Smith? Ryan Grant? Tony Manual? Mark Alcorn?

[billiken_roy]

someone posted a story last year that showed mcclain playing for an naia team i believe.

imo taj, as long as their college career, be it one season or four, ended as a billiken then they were billikens. if they transferred to another school and ended their career elsewhere, then they are not billikens or their loyalty wouldnt have allowed them to leave.

[slufanskip]

I don't have any absolute criteria, but imo leading the Bills to one of their best (at least their deepest in the NCAA tourney) in almost 50 years ... absolutely make him a Bill. Including the tourney he probably played over 1000 minutes that year. How many did Seyfort or McClain play? Larry moved up to the next level, Seyfort and McClain transfered.

I'm not interested in going over a list of players that wore Billiken Blue for a year or less to determine if I think they qualify as a Bill or not, unless there is another one playing in the NBA finals.

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[Taj79]

nm

[Taj79]

... but based on the short time I watched last night's game, dribbling over the half court line, then passing to James or someone else, then cutting over and standing by the sidelines, isn't exactly "playing in the NBA Finals" but that's semantics.

Last night, 20 minutes, another 0-fer from the field, two rebounds, two assists, one steal, two turnovers and a foul ....

[Tonka]

Taj, why the dislike of Hughes? So, you don't consider him a Billiken or hold no warm feelings for him. That is fine. He starts for a team that is in the NBA finals. It's hard to not respect that. Hughes had 2 bad nights and guess what they lost twice. The pregame guys who watch more of the NBA than you and I all said that the only way the Cavs have a chance is if LeBron and Larry Hughes both have big games. The fact they mention Hughes in that way says a lot. Larry is also playing hurt.

I, like others, don't have an absolute set criteria why I like certain Billikens. Some of my favorite players weren't huge contributers and certainly didn't play after college.

Larry is a local kid and arguably the best high school basketball player to come out of St. Louis. He was arguably the best freshman in the country while at SLU. He took us to the NCAA. He had some of the most memorable moves in Billiken history. He didn't cause any problems on or off the court. He gave the Billikens some national attention. He was a top 10 draft pick in the NBA.

I would think there are certainly more reasons to like the guy as opposed to not liking him. But, I understand it's subjective and you have your reasons.

[billiken_roy]

i have had more casual fans this last couple of weeks tearing into me about hughes that it is amazing. the haters just seem to think that hughes should be scoring 30 every nite. of course no one wants to consider that he is playing with the foot injury that pretty much retired mark mcgwire. i cant imagine playing with that torn tendon. let alone dominating as some seem to expect.

if i was hughes, i think i would walk away for the rest of the season instead of trying to help the team with the needed minutes as he has done. apparently he cant appease anyone as he is playing now. why make the effort?

[slufanskip]

based upon the very short time I watched Erwin Claggett in the NBA finals last night ... Oh #####, never mind he's not playing. Larry is the only ex Bill that is

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[Taj79]

,,,, Tonka, just trying to get my arms around the "former Billiken" thing. Is he a former Billiken? Answer is yes, absolutely. Roy notes that he went nowhere else so that's a good thing and keeps SLU as his sole connection. Where I think my dilemma stems from is the fact that we have never had and are unlikely to see, a talent like his at SLU again. I am hoping Majerus proves me wrong but it is that lack of a knowledge base that adds to my dilemma on how to accept Larry. He is certainly more Billiken than others and I do admit to checking out how he's doing but that is it. Do I root for him? Nope. Didn't even do that when he was here in the DC area and on TV almost every night. But its over.

It would be hard for me to define my top ten Billikens of all time list (post 1975) but off the top, I'd have Waldman, Bonner, Douglas, Gray, Kelvin Henderson, David Burns, Jeff Harris, and probably Claggett, Highmark and either Kevin Williams or Jimmy Glass on it. to this day, I still believe Waldman was the greatest creator I've ever seen in Billiken Blue.