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schasz, you do know that marquette has the 6th highest basketball budget in all of division one?

http://www.midmajority.com/schools/MARQ

i would bet a lot that if cheryl levick and brad soderberg had the 6th highest basketball budget in all of division one, we would all be whistling a different tune.

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>schasz, you do know that marquette has the 6th highest

>basketball budget in all of division one?

>

>http://www.midmajority.com/schools/MARQ

>

>i would bet a lot that if cheryl levick and brad soderberg

>had the 6th highest basketball budget in all of division

>one, we would all be whistling a different tune.

Marquette didn't have any such budget as recently as a few years ago.

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and a few years ago (pre the final four run) the marquette and slu programs were almost identical imo.

2001 slu rpi 116 ave attendance 12k

marquette rpi 113 attendance 11k

2000 slu rpi 33 ave attendance 13k

marquette rpi 67 attendance 10k

1999 slu rpi 87 attendance 15k

marquette rpi 129 attendance 12k

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I'll stick to what I said before about MU being a team that SLU should aspire to be...does not mean we are there yet. Besides budget they have a better history than SLU. I want SLU to aspire for bigger and better...I'm not satisfied with mediocrity. If that means also putting more money in the budget to get the freakin job done then so be it.

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Good point...some seem to be hung up the budget and we may need as you say some success first. Once we are in the new Arena I would think that the success of the basketball program should be very important to the SLU hierarchy.

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i just provided the stats that show they were almost identical.

crean got lucky or was smart enough to get a player that far exceeded what everyone expected of him out of high school and carried the team to a final four.

marquette has now widened the gap in the programs due to SUBSTANTIAL increases in the budget to give the program the facilities (the marquette practice facility and athletic dept offices is one of the best in the country), and staff (marquette has almost 50 athletic dept employees compared to 27 for slu), and ponied up to keep the coaching staff intact instead of starting over with a new coaching staff when the bcs schools came calling. all thanks to the funds to succeed.

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>i just provided the stats that show they were almost

>identical.

>

>crean got lucky or was smart enough to get a player that far

>exceeded what everyone expected of him out of high school

>and carried the team to a final four.

>

>marquette has now widened the gap in the programs due to

>SUBSTANTIAL increases in the budget to give the program the

>facilities (the marquette practice facility and athletic

>dept offices is one of the best in the country), and staff

>(marquette has almost 50 athletic dept employees compared to

>27 for slu), and ponied up to keep the coaching staff intact

>instead of starting over with a new coaching staff when the

>bcs schools came calling. all thanks to the funds to

>succeed.

4 NCAA's in last 6 years...would have been 5 had Diener not gotten hurt one year.

Was Crean also "lucky" to have two other NBA players on that Final Four team, one of which didn't even start?...and two other bigs, one of whom would have been in the NBA had it not been for a broken leg, and one of whom is among the best NBDL players. They were hardly a one man team. Was he lucky enough to get the other players too? Was he lucky enough to tirelessly promote their program without the budget to recruits, to fans, in an NBA town that also has another D-1 team a few miles away(UWM) that has been successful during the same period? All of this in a metro area smaller than STL. And don't forget the Badgers and the success they have had about 80 miles to their West.

and Wade? Brad is supposed to get credit in your opinion for player development, but Crean isn't supposed to get credit for taking a raw kid and helping turn him into one of the best players in college basketball at the time...who has gone on to become one of the best NBA players?

You are starting to sound like Metz.

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i guess you missed the the "or was smart enough" in my post.

that's ok courtside your comprehension has always been lacking.

and you were the one that said that marquette's funding a few years ago was almost the same as slu's. i pointed out that a few years ago productionwise the schools were almost identical. then marquette hit gold with wade and the final four (i would think the marquette pay day from that was indeed substantial) and then the budget for marquette took off and the program then was indeed able to sustain the success that has eluded slu.

now if marquette had done the 5 out of 6 with a 96 ranked budget, then you got an argument that it is all crean.

btw, i think crean has done a splendid job. but the success of marquette is not all his for the taking. if he leaves for kentucky tomorrow, i would not expect marquette to come crashing down.

however, if few leaves for kentucky tomorrow, i am not sure that the same can be said for gonzaga.

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>i guess you missed the the "or was smart enough" in my post.

>

>that's ok courtside your comprehension has always been

>lacking.

>

>and you were the one that said that marquette's funding a

>few years ago was almost the same as slu's. i pointed out

>that a few years ago productionwise the schools were almost

>identical. then marquette hit gold with wade and the final

>four (i would think the marquette pay day from that was

>indeed substantial) and then the budget for marquette took

>off and the program then was indeed able to sustain the

>success that has eluded slu.

>

>

>now if marquette had done the 5 out of 6 with a 96 ranked

>budget, then you got an argument that it is all crean.

>

>btw, i think crean has done a splendid job. but the success

>of marquette is not all his for the taking. if he leaves

>for kentucky tomorrow, i would not expect marquette to come

>crashing down.

>

>however, if few leaves for kentucky tomorrow, i am not sure

>that the same can be said for gonzaga.

When you recruit multiple NBA players in different classes prior to the budget increase...that is different. You act as if Wade played 1 on 5 ball.

Marquette was able to land several players that helped them succeed without facilities and budgets.

Do you really believe you are comparing apples to apples in attendance figures when the metro are is smaller there than St.Louis, ...when there has been a very successful D-1 program within miles of Marquette...(UWM)...an NBA team in town...and a successful team 80 miles West in Madison.....?

SLU is the only show in town.

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sports dollars are limited. and while milwaukee does have the bucks, they dont have the blues and the rams and anyone driving west on highway 70 on game days will see plenty of those damn tiger tails as well.

slu is not the only show in town.

as to the 1 on 5 assertion. i think wade was definitely the difference maker. give us wade and let marquette take marque, do you think marquette still goes to the final four? do you think the comparative records would still be the same?

while marque was a hell of a player, he was obviously not duane wade. the only billiken that compares in my lifetime is hughes. i would have loved to have seen where the slu program might have went had larry stayed until his junior year. my guess is our current coach would be jay spoonhour and we would have never heard of romar and soderberg.

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>schasz, you do know that marquette has the 6th highest

>basketball budget in all of division one?

>

>http://www.midmajority.com/schools/MARQ

>

>i would bet a lot that if cheryl levick and brad soderberg

>had the 6th highest basketball budget in all of division

>one, we would all be whistling a different tune.

Don't get too caught up in third party reports of internal expense accounting. Every organization takes a different philosophy regarding how expenses are allocated and treated, so you aren't comparing apples to apples. I would bet that Marquette's big expenses are almost entirely due to two things: (1) The million dollar salary of Tom Crean, and the (2) the depreciation expense of their brand new practice facility.

It will be at least one more season before we have a head coach who is worth over $1 million, but the arena expense will hit our budget very soon and our numbers will look a lot different. These numbers don't tell you whether coaching staffs are being nickled and dimed over snacks and cell phone bills.

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Should we compare attendance and success of Wisconsin v Mizzou in basketball? That would get ugly.

SLU is the only Division 1 men's hoops team in St. Louis, period. Marquette is not in their market...a smaller market...and that UWM hoops team has had success under Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl.

NBA is basketball.....basketball fans....you are now reaching and comparing that to anything you can...ok let's play that game...which is in no way shape or form relevant to hoops fans and dollars.

You do realize that the Green Bay Packers played half of their games in Milwaukee until not that long ago...you also realize that they have games designated Milwaukee season ticket holders and Green Bay season ticket holders...it is 1.5 hrs from Milwaukee...it's the state's team.

Also during the winter, professional indoor soccer dollars, minor league hockey dollars in downtown Milwaukee....and the defending national champion Wisconsin Badger hockey team dollars, and Badgers outdraw Mizzou in hoops.

Sports not in winter, Brewers, U of Wisconsin football which draws a lot more fans than Mizzou.

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>>schasz, you do know that marquette has the 6th highest

>>basketball budget in all of division one?

>>

>>http://www.midmajority.com/schools/MARQ

>>

>>i would bet a lot that if cheryl levick and brad soderberg

>>had the 6th highest basketball budget in all of division

>>one, we would all be whistling a different tune.

>

>Don't get too caught up in third party reports of internal

>expense accounting. Every organization takes a different

>philosophy regarding how expenses are allocated and treated,

>so you aren't comparing apples to apples. I would bet that

>Marquette's big expenses are almost entirely due to two

>things: (1) The million dollar salary of Tom Crean, and the

>(2) the depreciation expense of their brand new practice

>facility.

>

>It will be at least one more season before we have a head

>coach who is worth over $1 million, but the arena expense

>will hit our budget very soon and our numbers will look a

>lot different. These numbers don't tell you whether

>coaching staffs are being nickled and dimed over snacks and

>cell phone bills.

Yet another quality post...and crean's salary is under than, but closer to $2 million

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david, as i provided to courtside in another post, explain the sheer number of employee differences between slu and marquette. almost 2-1. marquette's site doesnt give individual bio's of the athletic dept, but i bet if we looked at experience for the staff overall it would be a significant difference as well.

and yes we dont know whether marquette's staff is being nickeled and dimed, however we have heard plenty of stories of slu's being ruled with a tight fist. any reason to believe that marquette's staff is expense harnessed to slu's extent?

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P.S. I have not reviewed Marquette's athletic department roster, but I wouldn't be surprised to see SLU's roster grow simply due to administration duties related to the new facility. Even if the management and ticketing is outsourced, there will be additional burdens on the department.

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david, wouldnt you agree that an athletic dept that was twice the size of ours without football in their portfolio of sports is going to be significantly higher to fund?

wouldnt you also agree that an athletic dept that was twice the size also be more inclined to be more efficient in running a day to day successful organizaion?

when personell has to wear multiple hats and share employees between departments, all too often crisis management rules the day instead of actually planning and execution that moves an organization in the right direction.

as to reliance on the numbers, i cant see how the trend of the numbers reported cant be significant.

you have made the debt service notation numerous times now. what about the cost slu has for renting and servicing scott trade? to be honest i am guessing our "monthly payment" is going to go down financing this arena compared to renting scottrade. now marquette does have the double whammy though of paying for the elaborate practice facility and renting the bradley center. so there indeed should be cost associated with that comparatively. the question i guess is how does the lease on the bradley center plus the payback on the practice facility compare to scott trade and the future chaifetz.

i also agree that the coaches comparative salaries will be higher at marquette. but that is a part of my point. what if we had ponied up whatever it took to keep romar like marquette did when illinois came calling on crean? instead we let romar walk and started over. it is all relative.

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