Question

[moytoy12]

"Brad didn't even go to the state championship game to watch a kid he offered a scholarship to play for a state title."

I don't know if these are the types of things that really persuade kids (i would bet it would help), but these are the anecdotal things that sour me on Brad's recruiting. This is not an abstract thought experiment about Brad's budget, but rather a real description of what is going on or not going on.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Now that is a legitimate issue re SLU recruiting. History has proven that SLU wins when the good locals stay at home. SLU needs to do a better job of defending and mining its own turf.

[slufanskip]

List in order the top 10 recruits out of Stl over the last 3 years and who got them. Just curious who got the best of the Lou. I'd say SLU got 1 and 2.

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[courtside]

>Not that many on this board probably care, but here are the

>attendance figures from 2006 at Stanford's new, state of the

>art, 50,000 seat football stadium:

>

>9/16/06 Navy 44,022

>9/23/06 Washington State 37,498

>10/14/06 Arizona 39,317

>11/4/06 USC 49,371 (as mentioned previously,

>many of them USC fans)

>11/18/06 Oregon State 38,502

>

>And all of them were losses for Stanford.

>

>What do you have against the WCC? SLU as an institution is

>a little bigger, but more like the WCC schools than like the

>Pac-10. The WCC is actually a very fine conference.

>

>Are you trying to say that SLU should be held to the same

>athletic standards as Stanford?

>

>Finally, before signing off on this, I'm not going to let

>you make some blanket premise that SLU does not have a

>commitment to a winning basketball program, and then try to

>spin something else from there. It's like an expert

>opinion. The first place to attack it is the base. In this

>case, your base premise is fundamentally flawed, as shown by

>the evidence, Exhibit A being the building of a new $80M on

>campus arena.

Your figures for Stanford are not PAID attendance of tickets SOLD. Stanford averaged 42,000 butts in the seats this year in a year they fired their coach for years of struggle.

I don't have anything against the WCC. On the contrary you like the WCC and do not like the Pac 10 and posted as such. Should I go back to it. I have nothing against either one, nor for.

Your premise is that a new Arena(scaled down and several years delayed) equals University commitment to winning in basketball. I don't agree with that premise.

SLU has a problem with its President, and a problem with its coach when it comes to having a competitive men's basketball program.

[3star_recruit]

OJ, Brad was in Atlantic City coaching a game at the time.

[Orange Julius]

No he wasn't because they had already lost and were home long before tip off. I saw Earl Austin at the game.

[3star_recruit]

My bad.

[cheeseman]

OJ - was an assistant coach at the game? My guess is that Brad was out of town recruiting other players that he does not get a chance to easily see - only a guess though. I do know that it is hard to be in two places at once - I know I tried it and it does not work.

Roy, no arguement that our spending and RPI mirror each other but that assumes that all you do is what the avg. person would do - it is not too much to ask a coach to be above avg.

[Orange Julius]

If you must know Brad went home.

[billiken_roy]

if i was slu, that maintenance would be done by the company i hired to run the place and it would be included in their fee. slu collects net. cash flow. no checks written by slu.

[billiken_roy]

julius, you are aware that falker is the only st louis player on siu roster? your post insinuates it is full of st louis players. both tatum and shaw are within a few hours but both come from homes that are closer to other schools than slu.

[billiken_roy]

on the surface that sounds lazy. however, let's keep in mind that coaches are limited to the number of "recruiting days" they can have plus, if brad was watching 3 rivers play, i would argue i would rather have him there right now.

[Bay Area Billiken]

If I was so against the Pac-10, do you think I would let my 17 year old high school Senior apply to 2 of the Pac-10 schools and only one WCC school? He has applied to 11 schools and been accepted at SLU, Fordham, and Santa Clara so far.

Putting that aside, you have to understand that I am surrounded by Pac-10 people, especially Cal and UCLA alumni, professionally and socially. The bantering is fun, both ways. Many of the Cal Old Blues have amazingly become very interested in the SLU Billikens. One of the biggest Golden Bear fans of them all objected to me the last time Cal played SLU in St. Louis (SLU won 88-66) that the Billikens were shooting 3 pointers with that huge lead. Of course, SLU got a very good taste of California cuisine the next year in the rematch at Haas Pavilion, a true den of iniquity, with yours truly and many family and friends in attendance.

But when push comes to shove, I would ultimately hope that Cal succeeds. However, Cal being Cal, I'm still waiting for Cal to win the big one. Cal has not been to the Rose Bowl in my lifetime.

[Bay Area Billiken]

Courtside,

You know about soccer.

My son and I were at the SLU at Stanford playoff soccer game several years ago, the debacle in which the SLU goalie somehow miskicked a goal kick right to a Stanford player, who promptly shot it right back into the net to give Stanford the win.

As we were sitting there in the stands, the prototypical Stanford couple, call them Buffy and Jody, were sitting right behind us. Buffy was examining the SLU roster in the program. She exclaimed to Jody, "They don't have any players from California!"

I felt compelled to turn around and respond, "You don't have any players from Missouri!"

At least then, Stanford's soccer field was substandard, with clumps of grass interspersed with dirt. It was the only stadium I have ever seen in which a huge tree literally rises right in the middle, bisecting the two parts of the grandstand. Save the Tree!

[Orange Julius]

They are St. Louis Eagles players. They wanted to play for SLU.

[billiken_roy]

whoa whoa whoa whoa

if matt shaw wanted to play for slu, slu offered him a scholarship before he committed to play for siu. that is total b.s.

i agree that matt shaw should have been recruited harder sooner, but the fact is he was recruited, he was offered and he was offered before he accepted a scholarship from a coach that ultimately lied to him about how much he loved him and would take care of him and later desserted him. if matt shaw wanted to be a billiken he could have been a billiken.

[slu72]

Skip, we all know the job with TL and KL was great....the follow up a disaster.

[Orange Julius]

First of all none of the assitant coach's were at the game unless you want to count Earl Austin Jr.

Matt told me he wanted to come to SLU. That was were he wanted to go and it was made known to Brad, I told him. Brad said he needed to watch him some more. Eventually other schools came on the scene Southern Illinois and Stanford. The last school to offer him was SLU, by then other schools had offered him and wanted him the SLU luster was gone. Just like Torres Roundtree wanting to come to SLU and I mean bad, but for some reason the Bills needed to evaluate him. As a matter of fact someone close to Jesse Perry said that he didn't think SLU wanted Jesse all that much that they just offered him in hopes of landing other talent. SLU has a problem of making kids feel wanted and not that they are someone the Bills are just settling for.

[billiken_roy]

orange, i like your insights, however this post is crazy.

first, you said shaw wanted to come, but then you admit that he really didnt want to come because siu and stanford offered.

again, think about what you wrote. if he hadnt accepted a scholarship offer elsewhere when slu offered, he should have accepted if that is where he really wanted to come. the fact is, he believed painter's b.s. about being his father away from home and how much he loved him and would be there for him. and grabbed that. painter was gone in less than a year.

if shaw wanted to come he still had the ability to accept slu.

as to roundtree, that whole thing still boggles me. it isnt ncaa legal for lowery to initiate contact with him personally or by telephone, it isnt ncaa legal for lowery to bring him to siu for an official visit. it is still 8 months from the first possible date that roundtree can officially accept a scholarship. why roundtree would verbally accept now makes absolutely no sense. especially if what you are saying is true and he really wanted to come to slu.

why not wait until coach soderberg can officially approach him and have him for a visit and then decide? i mean that is where he really wants to be, why not wait for that legal time to see what he says? instead he verbals 8 months before signing date. 5 months before he can take an official visit. 3 months before a college coach can make an official approach to talk to him.

that just doesnt make sense if he really wants to be somewhere else. i think he really wants to be in carbondale.

[Clock_Tower]

Excellent post.

[courtside]

I completely understand Orange's posts....Shaw wanted to go to SLU. SLU didn't offer him as early as other schools. SLU offers him later...and at the point, SLU had gone from the place he wanted to go, to just another school in the mix. And weighing his options, chose somewhere else. Not too difficult to understand. Had SLU been more interested earlier, perhaps they land him. That's dropping the ball in recruiting.

[moytoy12]

Again Roy, I read this post (well, part of it) to imply that Lowery did something inapposite to NCAA rules.

these are 17-18 year old kids, it certainly makes sense to me that they change their minds. Especially when slu offers so late in the process (assuming that to be true and i have no reason to doubt it) or when one team in competition with SLU for recruits is having a top 10 season...kids are going to change their minds.

Just because a kid says he really wants to come to SLU doesn't mean that same kid will feel the same throughout the process.

If what OJ is posting over the last couple of days is true, Sodie is really dropping the ball in recruiting.

[jjray]

>>SLU has a problem of making kids feel wanted and not that they are someone the Bills are just settling for.<<

It is interesting to hear these comments from OJ. He's close to a large pool of D-1 recruits. If the players who we ultimately offer feel like SLU really doesn't want them, then that is a huge problem regardless of whether or not it is true. Matt Shaw would have given our team a substantial upgrade at PF over the last two seasons. UB hesitated on offering, I imagine, due to Matt's height. The kid felt unwanted and went to SIU. If we continue to repeat mistakes like that, our program has zero chance of turning the corner. The 2006-2007 Billikens did not live up to expectations based the failure of complementary players to go along with the big three.

[billiken_roy]

no dropping the ball would be not offering at all. slu offered in early summer before he had announced any commit at an unofficial visit to slu. the next week he announced for father painter.

[billiken_roy]

that is you reading that. my point is that orange implies slu should have done more in both cases to capitalize on an apparent want of a player and i am saying until those timemarks come up they could not.

the kid, who orange claims wanted to come to slu not siu, apparently made all the advance initial contacts which is perfectly legal, to make his commit for siu instead of slu. imo that illustrates the question, "how can it be said he would have rather have went to slu?"

if he would have rather have went to slu he would have made the advancements to slu not siu as slu couldnt make the telephone or personal contacts. the player had to initiate those contacts. wouldnt he have initiated those contacts to slu if orange julius was correct?