Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Cincinnati went to Milwaukee and beat Marquette 85-73. My condolences, Billiken Law. Perhaps Marquette isn't as good as many thought, and perhaps they miss Wade and Jackson more than some people hoped. I said I was encouraged after SLU played Marquette so close in Bradley, but now that I've seen that Marquette can get beat by double digits against one of the teams in the very top tier of the conference and that SLU could beat Southern Miss (whom I may still be underestimating) by just one at home, I resume my cautious approach to this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebraska_Bob Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Just read that K-State gave Kansas a battle in Lawrence and lost by six. So maybe that will make you feel a little better about things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I could see Cincy running through the conference 16-0. Their depth and balance allows them to play a pressure D no team can hang with. SLU will be in trouble against them only going 7 deep. You really need 10 against that team. Cincy is the real deal and with all of the motivation they had going into last night (2-5 in the last 7 against MU, MU took the title from them last year) MU ran into an absolute buzzsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I believe Cincy plays Louisville in freedom hall next week. I'll put my 2 dracmas on the Cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 We beat USM by one, we lose to 'Zona by 2. Do I think USM is just "3 pts" worse than Arizona....hell no. I think we have a tendency to play to our level of competition. We keep things close and most of the time it is decided in the final 2 minutes. Cincinatti is a great team, but I don't think they are unbeatable. We stick to our game plan, and I feel we can compete with anybody in the conference. I'm not sure if we'll beat Cincy, but it's far from a given loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 If there is one game remaining on our schedule that I don't think we can win its that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 L-ville doesn't have the beef inside to handle Cincy. L-ville will need a HUGE game from their guards to handle the B-Cats. However, if there is a conference team that is best suited to handle the Cincy press it's L-ville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 And who thought we beat Louisville last year ... the games have to be played ... if we can control the tempo and protect the ball so we stop their points off turnovers we have a chance. The game needs to be played in the 50's or low 60's if they get quick easy baskets ... it is in the 70's or more ... we lose. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 i agree nashville. our style we let lesser teams stick around, but conversly will keep us in the game with far better teams. one thing old spoon used to preach is stick around till the end and who knows what might happen. what crean arrogantly did last night was stupid. to think he had the athletic talent to play cincy more or less straight up was eiher just that, stupid, or else arrogant. he should have seen after saturday, that his talent isnt that good. to be honest, marquette is no deeper than we are in "real talent". it is just that crean plays his 10 players, brad has chosen to play 7. i have never been a big believer in the players getting tired and not being able to play 35 minutes stuff. my gosh, these are young men in the prime of their lives. they dont get tired. let the best play. now injuries and fouls are a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I disagree on the tired aspect. I think the best example is Drejaj. In the games I saw this year, a lot of his shots in the second half start to fall short. Those guys are getting tired out there, whether or not they are in the prime of their lives. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrivener Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 ...SignGuy knows a thing or two about whether current college students -- "in the prime of their lives" -- get tired from time to time. Last Saturday night, he didn't look like he was relishing that 8 a.m. flight back to D.C. at all! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I'm going to agree with Roy ... they can go 35 minutes a game. I think the problem will be as the Conference season winds down so will the players. Right now though 35 minutes should not be a problem Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 I'm more on Steve's side of this argument. Yes, the guys are in the prime of their lives and in tip-top condition, and they CAN play 35 minutes per game. However, while they can still run without sucking wind after 35 minutes of play with 2:00 left in the game, their legs are tired and free throws and jumpshots wind up short. Erwin Claggett is (and always will be) one of my very favorite Billikens, but if you paid attention, you'll notice that towards the end of games, especially late in the season, his jumper stopped falling. There's a reason that Clagg was a shell of his midseason self during the 1995 NCAA Tournament. He was worn down by that point of the season. The same thing happened to Marque Perry at the end of last season. Claggett had Scott Highmark to pick him up, but Perry didn't have anyone. There's a reasonable chance that Reggie Bryant will wear down by the end of this season, too; hopefully, Josh Fisher, Chris Sloan, and Izik Ohanon will be there to pick him up (or, preferably, shoulder more of the load during the season so that Reg will be fresher during the postseason). One or two stretches of rest three to five minutes in duration during the second half of games could go a long way towards allowing a player to have fresher legs at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 what crean arrogantly did last night was stupid. to think >he had the athletic talent to play cincy more or less >straight up was eiher just that, stupid, or else arrogant. >he should have seen after saturday, that his talent isnt >that good. Yeah, Crean is stupid. I mean, he's only been in the coaching profession 15+ years, he only has a conference title and Final Four appearance. What would he know about coaching, especially against superior competition? Fact is foul trouble early to Sanders really hurt MU, as well as UNFORCED errors. And your statement regarding his talent not being "that good" does that mean SLU's isn't "that good" either, since MU did lead the entire second half and won the game? Are USM and SLU even? Is SMS 'that' superior to SLU in terms of talent? How about ignoring the Marquette-envy and taking the chip off your shoulder and admitting that Marquette just got beat by a better, deeper, bigger and stronger team, one of the 2 best teams in the conference (with L-ville)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBand Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Nice Claggett reference. I remember a game where he played the full time possible and dribbled the ball off his foot 'cause he was so gassed. I agree that these kids have more energy just being the age that they are. BUT, if you have the chance to have a "fresher" player on the court to counter the opponents "fresher" player, thats got to be the way you go. Perhaps the full 40 is too much for Dreaj, but Fish seems to thrive in those types of games. It seems that you just have to know your players and what they can and cannot handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 billiken law said, "And your statement regarding his talent not being "that good" does that mean SLU's isn't "that good" either, since MU did lead the entire second half and won the game? Are USM and SLU even? Is SMS 'that' superior to SLU in terms of talent?" i am an enough of a realist to know that slu doesnt have the talent that the bearcats have and if they try to play them straight up like marquette did, the billikens willl lose. my guess is that coach soderberg will not play into mr huggins hands and even then the odds are they too will fall, especially considering the game is at the horrible shoemaker center. as to the crean comment i made, i know he isnt stupid, so which one of the multiple choice answers does that leave? while i recognize that crean has done a marvelous job turning the program at marquette, that doesnt mean i have to like the guy. there is a reason the attitude of the program from the top to the bottom fan has turned obnoxious and it all starts right there with mr crean. good for the warrior fans, but that doesnt win them or crean friends outside of milwaukee. as to sms, that team is indeed better than most give it credit for. the problems sms have are a terrrible conference that doesnt allow their rpi and reputation to grow with it, and a coach that seems intent on becoming the next off the court spoon rather than consistently doing his job. personally like spoon, hinson has shown he has a good mind for the game and knows how to prepare what he has to compete. right now, sms might be the best team in the state of missouri. one thing is for sure, cant argue with any claims they might have. they beat us and missouri sure cant stake any claims the way they have performed this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 plus there has to be able substitutes. example, if a tired josh fisher is still more effective than a fresh phillip hunt, you let josh play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I watched the game. Marquette came out with a lot of zone 2-3, 1-3-1 as I thought they would. Marquette does not have a ball handler to bring it up other than Diener. I have not seen Cincy play that hard for 40 minutes, ever under huggins. They have depth, and at least two shooters. Will Cincy play that hard all of the time? If so they will stay where they are...we will see. The times Marquette had a chance to turn the corner, Cincy answered every time with deep 3....something on Steve Logan could do recently. Nice Robert Whaley sighting, falling into Marquette bench then shoving the strength coach as he was being helped up. Huggy was huggy. Marquette looked like a team that lost two conference first-teamers at two positions... Cincy is very tough, now that they have shooters. Marquette is on the fence of being solid top 3 league team or falling back to pack....obviously Cincy is better this yr and Marquette not as good...we all knew that before the season...we will see where they go from here. Question: How well would a SLU game be supported if played at SMS against an out of state team? Would people go 2-3 hours away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I don't know if you are trying to make a point ... but it is not relevent to the MU situation ... it is not even relevent if MU fans will drive to Green Bay to see them play. The point is that is not at the home of Southern Miss ... where all other CUSA teams who are scheduled away must play them. As far as SLU is concerned ... I don't think many would as proven by the SMS game. I would have but I work Saturdays so it is impossible for me. Now if we were coming off a final 4 season and 10-2 or something then I bet we would have a lot of fans make the trip. I'm sure MU will have plenty of fans there. At least more than Southern Miss did. Todays Post had an article that said that James Green thanked Brad for making a stand against the game. What a joke ... if he had any B@11$ he would not have signed off on the game and made his own stand. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 courtside said, " have not seen Cincy play that hard for 40 minutes, ever under huggins." van excel's final four team was one of the hardest working relentless teams i have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 from what i understand, green had zero input and was extremely angry when told the deal was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Roy ... I don't remember where ... but I have read numerous times that Green was unhappy but did sign off on the change. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Also ... I really like it that Brad has the courage to step up and speak his mind on this issue. He has been the most vocal among CUSA coaches. Just another reason why we have a great coach. Official Billikens.com sponsor of H. Waldman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I don't happen to think Crean is stupid...he is one of the bright young coaches on the college basketball scene. His team isn't as good as last year and anyone thinking that they would be this year had silly expectations after losing Wade to the NBA...by the way I think that he is having a nice rookie season in the NBA. However, this USM to Green Bay thing that transpired...it freakin stinks, and I don't really care how many MU Fans drive to Green Bay. The Commish of CUSA should have had the Kahonies to put a stop to this, but he showed his true colors. I'm happy that we are leaving this garage league. The 2005 season cannot come soon enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Skip...I was asking if SLU fans would go, to get an answer...not making any other point. Also Skip...as far as Soderberg goes...he is a Wisconsin guy...and Marquette and Wisconsin hate each other...so speaking out against it wasn't that much of a stretch. and Roy...obviously Cinci's final four team was hardworking....I never thought Van Excel or some others played hard all of the time though. at times yeah... Marquette could have used Rob Jackson for inside scoring and boards...not just Wade. I think Lousiville can beat Cincy....but Cincy has a better club this year. Louisville has to choot it well to stay in it. nothing inside and that won't get it done this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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