Pistol

Comparing the WPG with the Old Red Gym is just not right. Every building is different. Both are old gyms; one is a significantly larger facility with plenty of usable space and is on the National Register of Historical Places (since 1993); the other can claim none of that. I'm going to assume you've walked around the WPG enough to know what it's like in there. Now look at this: http://www.jgwaarchitects.com/portfolio/ad...nsin-armory.htm http://hum.lss.wisc.edu/uwhist/redgym.html It's not even close. Even if by some miracle SLU is able to convert the WPG into something like that, it would not even deserve the title "poor man's version" of the Old Red Gym. When you look at the list of all the departments housed in the ORG, those groups at SLU would have to move from significantly larger spaces in DuBourg Hall and the Busch Student Center into smaller, older spaces in the WPG. The ORG was originally built in 1894 for a number of uses; the WPG went up 26 years later pretty much just as a gym and the basic offices that go with it. I would also be surprised if SLU has the same amount of people who love the WPG as Madison had for the Old Red Gym, and therefore I would assume that there will be a lot less interest and money people are willing to devote to restoring it properly for other use. I emphasize "properly" because as it stands now, there are no other reasonable uses except as a horribly dated athletic facility.

I'm also not a fan of that rule. Plus, I don't understand why WIU and other schools ever refuse to let a kid out of his LOI if he makes it 100% clear that he wants to play elsewhere. I understand talking with him and trying to get him to stick with it, but everyone loses when they don't release him.

That seems more likely to me than just gutting the inside per Nark's suggestion, but even that would be a challenge. The walls, floors, stairs, etc.- everything in there is very, very thick old brick, stone, or concrete. Some of those walls are like a bomb shelter. I would also suspect most of them are load-bearing and that it would be nearly impossible to change the layout at all. I'm guessing they'll either keep it pretty close to what it is now or raze it completely. I hope they just demolish it to keep the campus modern. If I were a prospective student or parent interested in a particular department of the school and that department was using an 80+ year old former gym for offices, I might have some second thoughts.

Kris Humphries was the recruit that overshadowed Clarke at Hopkins HS. He originally signed with Duke and then changed his mind because he wanted to stay closer to home. Duke let him out of his letter of intent and he signed with Minnesota and wasn't forced to sit out or lose any eligibility.

I knew Pius had some issues but libraries are the toughest buildings to change/renovate/expand/move. In a dream world, they would tear it down and rebuild a good one where it stands. That is near impossible, though. I don't understand how WPG could serve as an extra library space, either. I always hated Pius- very ugly and hard to navigate. Then again, I didn't even use it until the end of my sophomore year and probably went there about 5 or 6 times ever. There are always a few empty beds on campus, but that is more a function of mid-semester changes than lack of demand. If they tore down WPG and built student housing, they could fill it. I worked for the housing department for two years. Unless something dramatic has changed since 2005, the housing department would absolutely love more rooms. They want to bring a lot of those off-campus students onto campus. The main issue I have (and this is coming from a person Box and Won would call a "building hugger") is that WPG is essentially a big empty room surrounded by horribly undersized rooms. What use could any department possibly have for a former gym, and an ancient one at that? The offices around the gym are too small, the ceilings are too low, the hallways are too narrow, the cost to maintain the place is too high. It would be short-sighted to try to reuse it now. Tear it down now before some other department starts depending on it.

Some joker apparently took the domain name www.chaifetzarena.com, so the official site is www.thechaifetzarena.com. I've been to the official site before, but never paid attention to this difference. Timmerman mentioned it in his blog recently, I thought it was interesting. The anonymous individual also took the .net and .org versions. The site is nothing but a blue page with the three site names listed. He or she probably thought that jumping on them early would force SLU to buy them. I assume this was also Steve's original intent with this site (just kidding, Steve). Anyway, looks like SLU isn't taking the bait. Also from a comment from Timmerman when I asked what they planned to do with West Pine Gym in that post last week: "It's hard for me to believe that you could successfully (or economically) renovate West Pine Gym, even if you gutted the interior and rebuilt it to install offices and classrooms. And as it currently exists, it would make lousy office space for any program moving in, and you'd still have a large gymnasium space in the middle. It's prime campus real estate, fairly centrally located, near the law and business schools and the library. I know there are plans for some departments to use that space, but I would think it would have to be in a new building. (I also have to admit I'm not sure as I write this if there are any historic building designations that would hinder what they call adaptive re-use.) As for the seismology equipment, I assume it can be moved and relocated, but that was behind a locked door that I couldn't get to."

I wasn't talking about us, I was talking about Missouri State. I absolutely think we have a shot to compete for 4-star players and I think that's what we're working toward.

I agree with you on the first 3 sentences. I look at our 3-star laden incoming class, and Mizzou has one as well. Classes like those won't show up in the top 10 nationally, but a few in a row build strong programs. The guys going to SIU, though- were they really all 3-star guys? There were a few probably, but most of them flew further under the radar or were late bloomers. I think he's starting to bring in higher and higher touted players, I just think the program in the past decade has thrived on guys who didn't get the attention of bigger programs, Scout, or Rivals.

One thing I forgot to remark on was your comment about A10 refs- true, we do get hosed by them. But we also get absolutely pounded by Valley refs whenever we venture into Springfield or Carbondale. We get the "you ain't from 'round here, are ya?" treatment big time. It probably wouldn't be so bad from them if we were actually part of that conference, but as it stands now they are merciless to us big city folk.

Who is going to be able to get the players that would take MSU to the next level? Even if Knight were there, he wouldn't suddenly be getting 4- and 5-star recruits to go to Springfield. Same with the Spoons. It would take one of the biggest name coaches in the country to get those kids to go there over major programs. And even then, I would suspect it would take less-than-legal recruiting to get that caliber of player. The most successful teams in the Valley (SIUC, Creighton) have done it with Valley-type players. Even the Valley's NBA talent- Kyle Korver is a gym rat from Pella, Iowa and Patrick O'Bryant, a very late bloomer out of Blaine High School in Oskaloosa, Iowa- would be considered Valley-type players as recruits; the Valley programs don't compete with high major programs for talent.

There are a few exceptions to this, notably Justin Johnson, Horace Dixon, and Dustin Maguire. I don't think any of them have the level of talent needed to succeed in CUSA or the A10. They were primarily back-up plans anyway, though (back to my previous post). You could make the argument for Obi as well, but he was getting some high major interest before he blew out his knee. Brad saw him as an injury risk with a potential big upside if he could return to form. Had he not been hurt, he might have wound up with some Big 12 offers. The knee injury was killer and he never worked his way out of it; work ethic became his problem after that (vanishing from campus, skipping class, skipping rehab).

I don't think his problem was in detection; I think it was in his hesitation. He knew who the players were and what they could do. He took too long and missed his chances. This is something he's had a lot of time to reflect on now and it is an easy fix compared to just not being able to assess talent.

I also think it's a long shot that they even interview him, but I do think he'd be good there. At SLU, there was pressure to land a higher-caliber kind of player. Not to continue to beat a dead horse, but this is why he'd pass on a kid like Ahearn for a kid like Clarke. Clarke had definite upside and didn't pan out. He showed flashes in high school and practice and even in a couple games (at Georgia Tech, for example) that he had some serious ability. He just never got his mind right, never matured, never fit in, and never worked hard to step up his game. Ahearn was more of a sure thing, but you knew where his limits where. What he achieved at MSU was about the cap of what he could do- best case scenario. He may not have gotten the free reign he had at MSU had he come to SLU because he was smallish, not particularly tough, and had a ton of work to do on defense (never was a great defender, even as a senior). That may have held him back a lot especially as a freshman because those are Brad's hot buttons. We might not have seen Ahearn develop the same way, who knows. He would have been good, no doubt, but I would guess his numbers would have been different. Point is, Brad beat himself at recruiting. He wanted the top level of recruits, missed on them, and waited too long or passed on a lot of the reasonable under-the-radar kids or late bloomers that would have accepted a SLU offer. At a school like MSU, he's not in a conference like CUSA where Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, and Marquette were getting top-notch talent. There isn't the expectation in the Valley that they'll get better than 3-star talent. They know they have to find the hidden gems and develop programs to surprise the big boys when they get the chance. SLU has constantly been stuck in the in-between place, not able to run with the big dogs yet but not interested in getting stuck in mid-major hell. Brad never found a way to recruit from that spot and build the program out of it. I think he's a good coach who could find more success recruiting the Valley. I think the small-town kids who wind up at Valley schools would be easier to sell on a system. I think he made some mistakes at SLU but doesn't have too much pride to learn from them. I think he has a very Midwestern personality that would help him fit in well in the cities that make up the Valley. The only problem I see is that he looks like a SLU reject to Valley fans and that just won't do for them.

Dude, I posed this question in the "Hinson Fired" thread- way to steal my thunder. Seriously, though, I agree with you that this makes some sense - he's a pretty good fit on paper and comes loaded with a bonus recruit who would be a great player in the Valley. The only problem is it seems that the decisions at MSU right now are coming from big-money outside pressure and I don't know if they'd settle for a guy we let go. Even if it were another Valley school (except SIUC), this would be a lot more likely. I still don't think it's out of the question and a lot of the names being tossed around for this job so far are reaches (it would take ridiculous bucks to get a "name" coach down to Springfield), so they're going to have to interview the next tier of guys who have some solid D1 experience elsewhere and have either been let go by a bigger program or are looking to jump from a smaller one. The 'too close to home' factor for the Bears faithful is the only thing that could keep this from being a potentially good situation for both sides. I think Brad would have a lot more success recruiting his type of guys in the Valley and could stay at one of those schools for a long time and build a strong program.

I'm normally with you, but not on this one. I'll take whoever comes out of the A10- so basically Xavier and hopefully one or two others. I've always stuck with the "once you lose, root for the conference" philosophy. And the last conference I want to see succeed is the Valley. If Drake made a run, we'd hear some more annoying noise out of the group that thinks the Valley would have been a better move for SLU than the A10 (it kills me that they actually still exist).

I agree on 1, 4, and 5, but... 2. The "surrounding 6 state area" argument is kind of cheap. Naturally, kids who live in the cities that MVC schools are in are going to know more about them than small private schools on the east coast. I guarantee no kid in New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Virginia, North Carolina, etc. knows or cares about Valley schools except what they might catch on ESPN this time of year. St. Louis kids don't exactly clamor to wind up in Springfield, Peoria, Carbondale, Evansville, Wichita, Bloomington-Normal, Des Moines, Cedar Falls, Terre Haute, or Omaha (the best of the bunch). I'm from St. Louis and applied to multiple A10 schools (SLU was still in CUSA) and never even considered for one second any school in the Valley. Then again, my test scores weren't in the bottom 20%, either. 3. So you're arguing for Springfield, MO (!) over St. Louis in terms of surrounding areas- wow. There is very little to do in Springfield itself, and the surrounding areas are questionable at best. Say what you will about the Ozarks, but it's still more redneck-infested than a NASCAR event- not the people I want to spend my free time with if I'm a college student. What else is within a short drive of Springfield other than small dime-a-dozen southern Missouri towns? Oh yeah, Branson- "Las Vegas if it were run by Ned Flanders." That wouldn't even be fun for me after I turned 80 and dimentia had kicked in with full force. It's even less fun for a college kid. St. Louis isn't New York City, but it's one of the largest 20 metropolitan areas in the US with all the cultural attractions you'd expect and more free public attractions than any other American city outside of D.C. And it's a beer town. St. Louis 1, Springfield 0.

I also want to be on the opposite side of the brackets as X. For all their depth, they are starting to show signs of wear- last week's GW game showed that. Lavender's ankle is the huge question mark there, and who knows, they might want to rest him and not play at full speed in AC. They still want to at least win a couple games there to make it to the finals and give them a shot at a #2 seed in the Tournament, so the finals is where I'd want to see them- no sooner.

True, but the talent level in the Valley isn't as high as in the A10 or former CUSA (pre-2005 realignment), so the caliber player required to win there won't be as high. He can win with scrappy, hard-working, system players, and he also comes pre-loaded with Kramer, who would be a great player in the Valley.

Great question, philliken. It makes me think of all the bands I've gotten into. Some of them have caught on and become big, some have faded into obscurity, and most just keep cranking along doing the same thing they always have as long as they can sustain it. When I see a little band I love start getting more attention, that's a great feeling because something I enjoy is becoming more accessible and more people are getting the message. However, the baggage that comes with it can be annoying; they were a blast to see a couple years ago when it cost $10 to see them in a small venue with nothing but true fans, but now I have to pay 4 times as much to see them in an assigned seat next to marginal music fans with some expendable income and are there for the scene/beer/because their significant other made them go. It's also tough on the musicians to balance art, expectations, and major label requirements, so a decline in quality is almost inevitable due to the pressures. (There are exceptions, and for two great songs about this problem, albeit on a smaller scalle, I recommend The White Stripes' "Little Room" and Elliott Smith's "Rose Parade.") Point is, when something gets big, there are bound to be idiots who jump on board and make it tougher to be a fan. But now you can buy the merchandise more places now, the venues are getting bigger, there's more media attention and exposure, and less effort goes into following something you like. This is generally irks me with pop culture (back to the music reference), but in sports it's generally a good thing. Since 2000, no city has had more annoying fans than Boston (curse them all) once their team owners decided to build strong franchises with hard work, personnel, and mountains upon mountains of cold hard cash. As much as I hate Boston fans in every sport , it's hard to argue that the teams haven't been great. And most of the fans have blossomed from out of nowhere since 2000. I see no problem with our ranks of strong Billiken fans being filled in with marginal bandwagon fans. Let's face it, in sports, you need butts to fill in the seats, buy stuff, and make noise. I would love for the Bills to have had more fans, whether passionate or not, just show up to games. Scottrade's atmosphere felt like that of 6 A.M. mass sometimes. It also would help get us on TV more locally and, if we were able to sustain a good run for a few seasons, more national TV as well. It would make SLU merchandise easier to find (finally) in St. Louis and maybe- gasp!- outside of St. Louis on shelves, too. How often do you see people in other cities with SLU gear, especially SLU athletic gear? Pretty much never. To top that off, it would force SLU's athletic department to get it in gear internally. No more dog and pony show productions for Division I basketball games, no more sponsors dropping, no more second-rate people in the offices, and no more having their hands tied by a stingy administration (they won't stop a cash cow). I've been a Cardinals fan my entire life, even working at Busch as an usher for 3 years. The Cardinals are lucky to be so ingrained in the culture regionally that there are so many passionate, knowledgable fans. There are also more than enough complete moron fans. But they buy tickets, they pay for cable, they buy jerseys, and they buy tons and tons of beer- they support the salaries as much as the smart ones do. They make the most successful mid-market team in the history of baseball possible. I would absolutely love to have SLU basketball become part of the local culture in an important way, and I'll take the bad with the good to make that possible. So I say bring it on.

Where do I get that impression? Well, the long, in-depth articles written about his complex character in Sports Illustrated and the Riverfront Times. What I gathered from those is that Majerus is one of the brilliant X's and O's coaches of all time, fiercely independent, devoted to his mother's care, a workaholic, nurturing to his players off the court and outrageously profane in practice and games, meticulous with basketball and sloppy at home, a meandering storyteller, alternately charming and baffling in interviews, somewhat lonely, a teacher who craves practice and game preparation, an individual whose interests go beyond basketball (movies, books, politics, etc.), a guy who is impossible to deal with but who some former players have made the godfather of their children, and so on. How is this not a complex figure? He might be the most complex figure in coaching today. Please prove to me that he is a one-dimensional guy- I'm curious.

If the Knight thing falls through and the Spoons aren't in, what about the tandem of Brad and Kramer Soderberg?

The 20-point game at GW. I knew coming in that he was a mixed bag, somewhat unpredictable behind a microphone, and a pretty complex personality overall, so the unusual commentary, publicly calling out players, anecdotes, stream of consciousness manner of speaking- that stuff didn't surprise me as much. But the loss where we scored 20 points- I never thought I'd see that in college basketball, let alone by SLU.

To start a poll, click "New Topic" and then right under "Topic Description" you'll see a "Poll Options" link where you can manage poll settings.

They had a 22 last year and didn't get in. It was the highest RPI-ranked team ever to miss the Tournament. The hyper-inflated RPI ranking was a result of Elgin and the Valley figuring out the system. Their schedule had no RPI-killers on it, but the committee saw through it and realized that Missouri State didn't really play anybody, either. Their biggest non-conference game was Arkansas, which they lost.

That couldn't be more true. And hopefully Conklin's the guy. But we have no one right now who would have made that clown pay. Both Soderberg and Majerus seemed to have that complaint about this roster, that the guys are too nice.