Taj79

See, now you've got one sentence that is fact and a second that is an opinion. There are differences. And I know you don't care but I actually agree with both ... disagreeing with facts is futile but opinions vary. Two facts from the game that are interesting ... while the Rainbows did lose, they lost in Las Vegas. Losing by six in the Thomas and Mack Center seems respectable. Second fact was that Sensley was 0-for-11 from the field and scored no ... that's right ... NO points. I think that is amazing for all the NBA potential that has surrounded this kid since he was a high schooler. And last time I checked, UNLV was not known for its stellar defense. What do you make of that???? Going to Hawaii has to be tough on the kids. I mean, you are in paradise but you are still there to work. I been on the UH campus and while its arena is not like the Maui Invitational one .... 1,000 yards from the blue Pacific Ocean .... it does sit across the interstate from Waikiki at the Pali foothills. You cannot help but be a tourist in those situations. Add in the air travel and wonder of it all and I would suspect that getting up to play can be tough. I wonder what a Greek kid thinks of all that? Of course, I also hear the reverse is true for when Hawaii comes to the mainland ... that the air travel and all that really waxes them out. For all they win on Oahu, they tend to lose on the mainland. Stealing a win would be nice.

Your facts are so right on the mark! What the hell was I thinking? Please forgive me ...... by the way, CL made me write that so thank god for her one more time, will ya'? No tangible proof + name calling = facts. Somehow, somewhere, I missed that quantum theory. Obviously my IQ is not at the same level as yours. I'm not worthy, what canI say. Must be the diverticulitus kicking in again.

... I was out of school and I think it was near Grawer's first year or so .... I remember the spunky point guard on that team ... Kevin Williams. I was excited because of the news of us getting a seven-footer and I ran into Williams somewhere. When I asked him about it, he said it was true. I was giddy. Then I asked Williams if he was any good. Kevin's answer "He runs the floor really, relaly well." Translated, I later found that out to me he really sucked. I don't know if it was Havanna but I do know he was from Illinois. So that would be all about right.

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. All we have is your typed words, which say this: "Jill got the last laugh." -- You have photogrpahic evidence on this I assume. "She's (Jill) making over six figures." -- Pay stub please. "She (Jill) got a large buyout from her contract at SLU." -- again documentation but I don't think this blemish on her record is making her happy all that much if she wants to coach again. Of course, most all coaches can look forward to getting fired. "The only reason she was there so long is that her and Lori were real tight." -- fact, opinion, or anatomical probe? (My bad, couldn't resist!) Thank god CL put a stop to that." -- Given Jill's record, which spoke for itself, coupled with the fact that usually new ADs engage in some form of house cleaning, the shoe dropping doesn't seem like a far-fetched idea. But fact, thanking god has very little to do with fact. More faith, but not fact. "Jill reported to her (Lori) on all of the program issues." -- So you have two blind captains steering the ship? I can see that in her role as senior associate AD and the fact that she and Jill were same sex but seeing Trich's response and knowing his experience in the Department and with the school, just because you say so doesn't make it a fact. But as noted by Trich, nothing on her bio says a thing about women's basketball. Doing this gratis, I presume? "Jill did have a falling out with Lori because ... Jill was on the committee ...Lori wanted job ... that pretty much ended the relationship." -- Interpretation. There is nothing factual about any of this because its pure speculation unless affirmed and there is no way to affirm it. Then you ask if you were hard or unfair to Jill. Frankly, I don't really care one way or the other but there's no substantiation of what you call "facts" other than what's floating around in your imagination as far as I can tell. You have no sources. No credible affiliations. No known identification. Hard or fair? You were neither ... you're a rumnor-monger hiding in cyberspace. Didn't mommy ever tell you "if you can't say something nice say nothing at all?" Sure, I believe you. You've sold me.

two words ... David King.

...Tom. You even sign your posts and you and I know each other from tournament time. Besides, I thought your comments were fair and rationale .. had to be credible if you're willing to post and sign your name to stand behind it. Slulaw83 has no profile. OrlandoStewart has no profile. Billsboys has no profile. And who can tell if billikenman's name is real or not. It's like VTIME saying on his profile that he's Leon Powell. Its just as irresponsible as the torn ACL posts made below on Tommie. I apologize if I ever gave you the impression I was bashing you.

... really got some axes to grind to engage in character assasination heretofore never seen on the Billiken Board. Good thing there are no consequences to face with aliases to hide behind. I suspect that mine will be the next character ship cast upon the rocks.

.. I assume you are speaking of the 2004 Dwayne Polk year, right? What about last year? I'm thinking Matt Lawrence for one.

The (Baltimore) Sun came out with its preseason college basketball issue today. Some notes ... Humor was evident in the section as in big, 84-point type, the front cover reads "Don't Open This Section." The reason: becasue inside contents are revealed in the subhead reading: "Why? Becaue Duke, the team everyone loves to hate, is the preseason No. 1." I can guess that in our circles, Mizzou/SLU might rival this but in Terp country, no one rankles the faithful around here like the Dookies. Forget "Duck Fuke." The crowds here actually chant the real saying almost the whole game long. Which is obviously way over the top for the obvious reasons. Sign Kid wil like this: while they can't be consdiered "local" and thereby take advantage of the local bias, the Sun does have the GeeDub Colonials listed at number 16 in their Sweet Sixteen picks. The write up thee is "Pops Mensah-Bonsu and the Colonials topped a weak Atlantic 10 last season; now both are stronger." Old Friends Department: Loiusville is ranked at number 7 in that Sweet Sixtenn; Memphis at #14. The short blurb on Memphis says "The Tigers should run wild inside a depleted Conference USA." The Rich Get Richer: Of the Sweet Sixteen, three are from the ACC (Duke, BC & Wake); four are Big Easts (UofL, Uconn, Nova and WVa); and two conferences (Big 11 and Big 12) get two each. Where Have You Gone, Joe DiMaggio: Conspicuous by their absence in this Sweet Sixteen: Kansas, Illinois, Washington, Carolina, Bama, Wisconsin and the Twerps (given who wrote it). Sexy Team Pick on the East Coast: Georgetown. Looks liek the III is carryingon quite well in his dad's footsteps. Really Old Friends: B-roy's buddy, Pat Kennedy, is still at Towson and they are using last year's "Pat's Cat's" theme for the Towson Tigers. Of interresting note, and I did not know this or forgot, the write up on Towson has this blurb: "Even if 6'9" center Dennard Abraham, a highly touted junior college prospect out of South Plains College in Texas, makes an impact in the post ... the Tigers have a lot of growing to do in a tough league." #1) So that's where Mr. Abraham ended up. #2) How does Fat Pat continue to do this? #3) Towson over SLU seems rather stupid. #4) And when did the Colonial Athletic Association become a "tough" league? I guess it is when Fat Pat is herding your Cats. Say What: UofL comes in at No. 7. Their write-up has this little tidbit: "Taquan Dean, a more reliable shooter than JJ Redick ...." Since when? I am guessing that is based on some sort of shooting percentage but BETTER than JJ Redick? And I don't even like JJ Redick, but come on! On the Billiken horizon: Gonzaga (#6), Iowa (#13) and GeeDub (#16). Eastern Bias: Naw .... I don't wnat to believe that but of the 16 teams ranked in this one, only five are from west of the Mississippi.

The notes from Vtime and bono are certainly appreciated. If anyone could fill in the blanks .... namely who were the other four all-metro players on Polk's POY year (2004) and Shipley's POY year (2005) it would be greatly appreciated.

... is there a site to go to that not only lists the POY but maybe the all-metro team as well? I think there is a thread above or below that kind of goes where I was heading with this ... the list of the D1 players currently out of the St. Louis metro area. I think if you look at that list and compare it to the last four or five all metro teams for cross referencing, you might get a good view or grade as to the quality of college ballplayers coming out of the St. Louis area. Of the last five or so listed by Vee, Lee and Miles would be the ones later listed as continuing that success. Both are in the pros. Same goes for Hughes. But the others? McKinney hasn't done squat in my book. The jury is way out on Polk. Burke's a zero and is now taking a year off after an odius JUCO journey and Shipley's talent got him to Austin Peay. He's only a freshman but Go Peay?!?! That's the best a metro POY can do???? I guess there are those that would say the same about SLU and Polk. Jon Harris did nada while at Marquette and Shelton was a bust at SEMO as I recall. Any wonder why the metor St. Louis area isn't top 20 material. Even if you do get the "best" player in the area, that alone doesn't guarantee much. Now I'm not saying I don't want him but I am saying that getting him may not matter as much as some of us think.

... what is the SLU connection on the Lithuanian?

Vtime has given me 00 through 05 (when I add McKinney's name next to Lee's for that one year - mucho thanks V). Can you add to that from 00 back to Hughes with Harris or even backwards to 1990? Is thee a spot in the P-D that has this listing?

Aren't thongs acceptable in some places? Okay, okay .. granted as formal wear at a party is probably not acceptable. As the final outerwear garment of choice at any time in Milwaukee .. well, not my cup of tea either. Hazing? I don't beleive so ... only if say, the freshman or first year members of the team had to wear them. But if they all did? Where's the hazing in that? Nude beaches are acceptable in some spots of the world. As Americans, we require clothing. Nothing is prettier than a pair of old German wrinkled "snausages" flapping in the breeze down around the knees of a "beauty" walking Palm Beach in Aruba. To steal from a jon Bovi song ..."Been thre, done that, I ain't looking back ..." If it was hazing, fine, they need their butts kicked and the punishment meets the crime. If it was a "Musketeers Moment" .. all for one one for all .... its just another example of an institution coming down on some free spirits, which has been and will go on forever. I mean, it is "Marquette" lacrosse, is it not? Dumb college guys. Thanks gawd I is a grad-oo-ett!!!

Can anyone tell me where to get a listing of the past recipients of the St. Louis High School Male Basketball Player of the Year? I owuld like the list to at least start with Hughes (who I am assuming won the award in ... what? .... 1996?) but wouldn't mind going back to even the early 90's where Claggs and Hmark were at least considered, if not the actual winners. Is Lisch the 2005 winner? Was Polk the 2004 winner? Wasn't McKinney a past winner? I seem to recall Joel Shelton as well. Who can help out here?

Grimes played two minutes in the loss to Sam-I-Am State. Being a sophomore, I guess that could be interpreted as meaning there is room for improvement. But last time I checked, he is Mizzou's biggest player. Given that Young is only 6'7" I would suspect he is playing more as an F in his F-C listing. And Young only played 21 minutes shooting 1 for 5 and scoring 2 points. He did lead them with 7 rebounds so that's a positive but finished with 4 fouls so I'm suspecting he was in trouble. Without firsthand knowledge, I'm assuming Quinny went small given the opposition. I don't want to take guys because of past press clippings so I would think th jury is out on this guy. One season plus one game does not a recommendation make but right now, I'd rather create our own "lemon" and be surprised as to taking someone else's. Of course, Grimes could go nuts and I'd think differently later and look like my usual foolish self so who knows at this point. Any transfer that comes in has to sit a year and I would offer that we need immediate on court help in the 4-5 area. Any JUCO that comes in usually take a year to acclimate. A freshman could end up like JJ. But I am more inclined to suffer our own failures than take some others.

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SHORT VERSION: I agree with you, kshoe. LONGER VERSION .... and think you've hit the nail pretty well on the head. But let me ask you this, short of predictions like "I think we'll do better this year than last (based on the fact that it can't really get much worse)" what good are predictions? That might be a rhetoical question without a real good answer but you have to admit that those predictions have raised some interesting debate. My point posted many threads ago originally was that I think it is extremely hard to say what's going to happen and when. Yet I think that most involved in the annual prediction contest were sincere in their posts. I would never have predicted Claggs's junior year based on their sophomore year other than an incremental increase. I believe that if I were a coach, I would be looking at it in a different light. With a lesser team, maybe the Fang Mitchell approach of getting the crap beat out of us, not winning a single game pre-conference, making enough money to support the entire school's athletic program, and then hopefully cruising through that conference and gettting the automatic bid would be the way to go. Of course, those conference sometimes have upsets and its all your eggs in one basket. SLU is not one of those schools. We've won what, one conference tourney and automatic bid in our entire history? So we do stand a chance of winning enough games so that the tourney automatic is not our only hope. So you have to win non-conference games in those situations to improve your chances. Frankly, right now, I don't see us getting ot the NCAAs short of winning in Cincy come March. I don't think we will know enough about this team until January, maybe even later. And that might get short circuited on injuries, especially since we have one now with Meyer. What do you think happens to the whole house of cards should that big pillar in the middle break a leg or something? I remember having us winning the league based on the enrollments of Manuel, Tadysak and Ivester. these are the Billikens .. I've learned to scale back.

By the way, you want in for the AC, you are always welcome. Just stay in touch. I'll be with b-roy .. I'm the good-looking one, which is an easy clue.

B-Law .... when we go to the end-of-season tournament, we are always struck by the "lovely apperance" of the Marquette cheerleaders and dance team. I was wondering if this might the reason that the thongs are worn by the men at this institution of higher education????? I mean, if its a hairy arse, I guess it doesn't really matter does it?

... I'll give it to you and agree that we learned the running style is here to stay for the "foreseeable future (inasmuch as one can draw the conclusion from two exhibition games). But I will say that Brad is nothing if not a creature of habit. I predict that the plug-it-out style will quickly return should we find the winning difficult to achieve early on. Second point: "EARTH TO DUSTIN." One shooter does not a complete team make. And to place such a burden on a freshman would not be completely kosher in my book. What this advocates is a wait-until-next-year kind of thought and I'm not ready to do that. With the addition of Kevin Lisch and the continued (supposed) maturation of Anthony Drejaj and the (see other thread) breakout year for Dwayne Polk, I am inclined to not wait for next year and bank all those outside firepower traits onto another incoming freshman. Can Danny Brown shoot? Luke Meyer? Perimeter vs. Post defense. You're 6'10" and 7 feet. The tallest guy you're playing is 6'6". Is the picture we're seeing slanted? I would think so. And the numbers you attribute to Bryce Husak are now also slanted because at first, I was impressed. Bryce totaled 3 blocks and 7 rebounds for the game. If he had the numbers you state (which I believe to be true) and in the spurt you describe (3 - 4 minutes) then the rest of his 11 to 12 minutes he must've been sleepwalking and of no use whatsoever. Not a good warm and fuzzy as far as I'm concerned. Liddell and Lisch are freshmen. I for one have been saying that all along and been somewhat castigated for it. Yes, they are freshmen. Which means one should expect inconsistencies. I know that ... but others seem to believe that they are the second comings of guys like Hughes and Highmark. I think I can accept closer to Highmark than Hughes ... but let's remember it took Highmark around two years to really hit his stride. Hughes was an aberration for this program and we'll never see another like him in my lifetime. Potential is there. Frankly, we live on potential. So nothing new there. But i for one am getting tired of all the "potential." Fish or cut bait. Attendance. I believe attendance is where it is and where it will always be, fan-base speaking. We always have those locked in season ticket holders ... what ... 7 to 8 thousand strong? The increase will indeed come if and when we start winning because IMO St. Louis, outside of the baseball Cardinals, is one of the best examples of fair-weather fan bases anywhere. If the Blues win, they'll go there. If we win, they'll join us to dispose of their entertainment dollar. But I just don't foresee ever having 20K+ in the house consistently ever again .... the Bonnies, the Explorers, the Spiders?!? Sure, for Memphis, UC, UofL at times ... but not now. That's why I still support a 12K to 13K on-campus arena for this team. Danny Brown, track star. You yourself pointed out the key to all this ...the good finish. You can beat your man all night and if you miss the layups at the end ... so what. We once had an intramural team that was all cross country team members. They ran the opposition into the ground each game. They never won a game because you still had to put the ball through the hoop. I respect effort, and every once in awhile, effort will beat talent (see: Chaminade versus Ralph Sampson/Virginia). But in the long run, talent wins out 90 to 95% of the time. To streak down the floor on an offensive run, you need either good defense causing steals or rebounds leading to outlet passes. You yourself said the perimeter defense did not look good and I am concerned about Ian going it alone on the defensive boards. Danny Brown, or anyone else for that matter, could streak away to their hearts content. It won't matter much without the rock and the ability to finish. There is another thread in here that describes Eastern Illinois as "perilous." On 10/10, kshoe took me to task on my prediction saying that there were "four cupcakes on the schedule this year." If I identify those four cupcakes as Eastern, Jackson, Kennesaw and Chicago, it seems somewhat unbelievable, to me, that Eastern is indeed "perilous." But that is one subjective thread against another. Still such a connotation to me is an indication of the uncertainty that surrounds this season. Is it negative? Sure ... at its base is a 9 and 21 season. No one wants to go through that again (although it was more the rule in my early years assocaited with the program). Maybe what we learned is that the car is shiney and looks pretty in the sunlight. As to just what happens when the key is turned .... well, that I don't know. And the interest on this boards is "in the weeds" with the details as far as I can tell. In that respect, I still say we've learned nothing of value. Let's tip off!

I understand, as the good doctor has pointed out, that it is impossible to go into any situation, do something, and not learn. But the reason I started this thread is because someone, somewhere, in one of the prediction threads (I believe) made reference to maybe waiting until AFTER the exhibition games to make these preseason prognostications on the upcoming year and the potential record. So, in that context, I asked what have we learned and in the long run, I am stating that we learned nothing that would in any way-shape-or-form give us any truer of an indication of where this team is at this point in time versus what we knew on October 30. There are so many variables that enter each and every game that any prediction would seem to be quite futile. Yet we persist. To me its still in the "hell if I know" category. With that said, let the games begin!

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