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We had the 13th best team in the country on the ropes with 6 seconds left despite turning the ball over, getting destroyed on back screens and of course, missing free throws. I hope the guys understand how close they are to greatness. Don't run away from the pain of this loss. Embrace it and get better.

Gut-wrenching. Heartbreaker. Crushing. We "should've" won. All ring true; & I don't have all morning to read through the rants and learned observations, but I've read enough to get a feel for the pulse of this board. But surprisingly 90% of what I have read, is focused on the wrenched guts, so here's some good news: Whatever don't kill ya, can make you stronger... --Perkins: he is showing up big-time in huge games, the way he has been showing up most of the time in practices. This kid is making waves and looked great doing it. How about some love for a true scorer, microwave style? --Collins: true freshman, gutsy performance, even in OT running out of gas, sinking 2 FT's to put us ahead with 6 seconds. --Bell: mountain man hanging in there against an NBA lottery pick, solid performance and the sky is the limit. --Fred Thatch: how we undersell his contributions; could check Crutcher and/or another 3-pt. shooter. --amazingly, AGAIN: bench running a bit thin. Broken record over the entire Ford era -- & it shows at the end, and in OT. a bit gassed. But how about the HEARTS of champions??? I'm very proud of this team and I think if most people on here were honest, they did not think we would be this good this quickly. --amazingly, tying score in regulation, down 5. Goodwin scores! WOW. too bad he fouled out, but he is a champion. Has with 17 boards and very tough defense: the new normal, we are so used to this that nobody even mentions it anymore. Beast. --FT shooting: duh. But analytics only get you so far and all FT's are situational, and despite missing 17, we were in position to ****** a win. --Now as for Coach Ford: it is surprising how pissy/ even hateful some of the comments have been on here about his "performance" or lack of "adjustments." I say bravo, amazing crowd, strong performance, well done good and faithful coach and staff. Can't wait because the future's so bright I need shades. That is all...

I don’t f’ing get it. I don’t think Ford is Majerus in the bench, but it isn’t like we lost by 20 to Fordham. We lost by two in OT to one of the top 10 programs in the country without Thatch and Jimerson. This isn’t the game to rag on Ford.

This. Or hell, even Iso Hargrove against Obi. Have Hargrove just drive to dunk every time. Might make it to the rim and finish. Might get fouled, put Obi out of the game and actually make the freebies. Might get called for a charge or turn it over. French is a better garbage man than a back to the basket post man and I mean that as a compliment. Just wanted to see some different looks. Everyone knew the ball was going to French and to just hack the bejeezus out of him. French can be on the court all game rim protecting on D and cleaning up the junk on the offensive boards. The best way to combat our atrocious FT shooting is to minimize the chances of our worst shooters having to take those shots.

Teams can point to games throughout the schedule that are important games, but wins over Auburn and Dayton would have us ranked and clearly in the discussion for the tournament with a decent seed. When you lose by 6 and 2 to two teams that have been talked about as potential elite 8 or even final 4 teams and you clearly could have won the games If you were even just DECENT at one of the most elementary aspects of the game it’s very frustrating.

The thread is titled FREE THROWS. The topic had been beaten to death by 11 posts since it was started. That being said, as a fan since the late 80’s , and having witnessed the issues of bad free throw shooting the past couple of years I am sure it’s been discussed over and over again. There is always going to be a handful of plays made or not made in any game that can make a difference, but for all of the things we did or didn’t do, the fact is we didn’t go 7-17 at the line. We went 20-37 and missed 17 (not counting the front end of 1&1’s we could have had a opportunity to make). In a thread titled FREE THROWS, we now know that missed free throws aren’t supposed to be discussed.

Without Ford we’d have Brett Jolly recruits... take the good with the bad

Everyone will say we lost because of the FTs. But we also lost because, up double digits, we allowed them to hit 6 consecutive mostly unchallenged threes. Ford’s teams don’t deny the three shot well. It has been a problem of his since before he came to SLU and it crushed us tonight.

Just told you, I've never once blamed Ford. Not that he hasn't had questionable games, but to give them that run in the second by just not even trying to get a hand in their face on iso threes is unacceptable. FTs didn't help, but Ford rolled the dice on that one and lost big. And trying to take a 33% and 50% FT shooter to the rack every time in OT with whistle-happy refs when Perkins is the only guy consistently getting buckets is a bad call, too. Perkins should have had 30 and we should have had the W.

don't disagree with you. i'm good. it was a great game and bills proved they're legit. the only games i can't handle are when the refs COMPLETELY job us, or we give up. refs were pretty fair last night, and we certainly didn't give up. so i'm happy.

yeah, there were at least one or two times that toppin was just spinning around in the backcourt, trying to set whatever kind of screen he could, certainly not set, or even a walking screen. but nothing for me to get in a tizzy about. i yelled at the refs very little last night. thought they were mostly a non-factor, as they should be.

I’m a very optimistic person. I kept being positive we’d win last night all week... but deep down didn’t everyone really feel it was more likely we’d lose that game? that game was amazing. We did a lot of things fantastically well. We had a handful of things that we did poorly. Every game there is give and take and there is always something that could be improved. it was a great game. for those complaining, get real. Your expectations are too high. It is not ever going to happen that every category will be flawless. ... maybe if we were a top 20 team- but then how much did Dayton struggle with us all night? no player is best at all categories... accept the flaws and support the boys in their strengths so they can have the confidence to always be improving. love my Billikens. Hell of a fight last night.

I think it's time to step back and put this game in perspective. If we have Jimerson we win. If we have a healthy Thatch, we win. We played 3 freshman for significant minutes and played a highly rated team even for regulation and overtime. If that last low percentage 3 misses, this board would be celebrating. Yuri plays like a veteran, though he has some freshman moments. Hargrove and Bell play like freshman, they have some great moments and other times when they look lost or lack confidence. Sadly we lost Jimerson who was also playing like a veteran and stretched the floor which really helped our inside game. On the bright side, Our freshmen hit some high pressure FTs down the stretch. Hopefully Hargrove and Bell will continue to improve. We played like a tournament team last night, even though we didn't get the W. Our next challenge is to play like a tournament team against non-tournament teams.

Im going to go through this tomorrow and I better not see any trashing of Ford. Game was fun. We played good. Fuoker hit a big shot. You move on.

I couldn't believe we were up 8 at half with 3-12 FT shooting and all the missed bunnies. A credit to our tenacity and defense, and Ford getting them up for the game. But we were up 13 midway through the second half. Ended up down as much as 5. We knew they would make a big run, but I expect that to contain a few broken plays, bad calls, etc. It was almost exclusively the result of 6 straight three pointers. I'd just much rather take our chances putting them on the line or making them make plays within 25 feet. It takes a complete game from a coach to take down a team like Dayton. I applaud our team's effort, especially down two major players. Maybe our guys were gassed in the second, but I blame that run on Ford. Should have been an 18-6 or 20-6 run. But it was 24-6. Pissed it away. As for my sky is falling outlook on the rest of the season - do I think we'll have a good conference season? Yes? Do I think we'll beat Dayton with A-10 refs to win the auto-bid? No. Do I think the committee will give an at-large bid to a 26-9 team whose signature win is an away game at Richmond? No. I just watched a team very favorably in the at-large conversation get that taken away by a probably avoidable 24-6 run in the second half. I'm frustrated. I don't see the lack of 3 pt shooting, FT shooting, bench depth and experience holding up enough to get us into the tourney. And this should have been a tourney year. It can still happen. But I'm not counting on it. I'll enjoy the Ws and not take the Ls too hard. Like I said. Surprise me, Billies. Show me.

Ffs why did we not attack obi when he had 4 fouls for 7 minutes

Dayton came into the game ranked #1 in the country in assists per game. (2nd in adusted offense efficiency) SLU's defense was able to cut that in half. Very impressive. SLU also dominated the glass for much of the game. Offensively despite missing many FT's, SLU made many more than Dayton due to getting there more often. There were several good things. The room for improvement: The obvious FT's Two made 3's all game by SLU including one accidentally off of the glass. Three still counts more than two. Dayton made 9, including 6 for 6 at one point late that were not as well contested. They were eventually going to make some. Bunnies. At one point SLU was 11 for 22 in 5 foot or less shots, trouble finishing near the rim. Ford repeatedly, smartly went to Perkins to expose the mismatch but he stuck with Goodwin and French as options A & B in late game situations. Would have liked to have seen a dribble drive late by JG to the left instead of fall back jumper, but he did just that on right side to force OT. Little things late can make a difference. Hargrove not doubling in bounds full court, Jacobs final play D, no full court pressure by coach after having success with it. But the opportunity missed to expand the lead was earlier. 17 turnovers is still too many even considering OT. Have to value the basketball. Too many poor interior passes by guards not put in a good position to catch and do something with it. Still lost by just two in OT to a top flight team. Pretty good. 12 point lead, a little bit of a pattern later in some games. SLU can defend, can rebound, and do some other things. But it's tough when you make few 3's and half of FT's. Smaller margin for error over 45 minutes.

SLU was supposed to lose by 5-10 points. Ford and the the entire team exceeded expectations against the the #2 team in the nation according to barttovik.com (or if you prefer the #5 [prior to the game] according to kenpom.com). I give Ford credit for how well we did.

I’ve accepted we’re historically bad at free throws and that’s why I’m not complaining. You are. Ford is down 2 of his best 4 wings for the season (presumably, incl. a pretty good perimeter defender). Sorry his coaching allowed Dayton to go on a run from deep. They’re pretty good. Did his coaching not put us in front to begin with? It’s tiring.

Complaining about Ford the second we lose is pathetic

I’m so glad you pointed this out! I had totally missed that we struggled from the line but now that you mention it we could have been much better

It seemed to me (but I wasn't able to watch) that Bell kind of wore on Toppin in the first half, but then he hardly got time after halftime, and Toppin stayed fresh. That was costly. Bell has shown that he can be trusted!

This is hardest playing Billiken team I've ever seen. It's why they're up right now. It's also why their shots are so scattershot right now. Hopefully they settle down at the half and give themselves a chance to hit the rim outside of five feet. I know he's a mild-mannered dude but now is not the time for Jacobs to hide on offense. We need for him to look to score. Bully ball. Let's go.

Little early for this routine thx

evergreen meme

Roy, I’m dressed as pure as Madonna in the “Like a Virgin” video.

Puke cleanup in progress in student section. Passed out dude on stretcher. Go bills!!!

What do we say? Sometimes it’s hard being a Billiken fan. We are always with them....the MBM’s, our little fraternity of Billiken crazies. mhg

Quality Is Job 1, I’m not sure how to take that exactly, lol... I will just say that as someone who enjoys reading the thoughts of the posters on this forum. and not really ever posting anything—-when I finally decided to chime in on a thread titled Free Throws I decided to comment about said subject. Immediately after making my first post it was met with “new posters bringing up old topics” and “beating a dead horse” comments. Forgive me for not knowing the unwritten rule of not commenting on the subject that the thread was about. Yeah, I can be a little bit of a smart:$$. I don’t know who these posters are or even which ones I agree with or not—-but for the record I am just a fan making comments about some of the most horrendous free throw shooting I have ever seen.

I believe there should be a new forum where people bring up topics and nobody should comment. It should just be a simple title, like a headline, no body, no other text...just a simple one line thought with no discussion. It would be riveting!

People are saying the bench is thin but is it actually as thin as the complaints would indicate? French, Goodwin, Bell, Collins and Perkins seem to get the bulk of the minutes with Jacobs in the mix. That’s six guys with significant playing time. Hargrove and Weaver are capable of giving minutes. That’s 8 guys with Hightower getting a couple of minutes here and there for a honorable mention 9th body. If you consider Jimmerson and Thatch healthy then you have 8 guys in rotation with 10 to pull from and Hightower as your 11th. There aren’t a lot of teams that could sustain 2 huge contributors going down and not feel a little thin in their rotation. This doesn’t even take into consideration Hankton who is sitting. It’s hard to recruit 10-11 kids who are all capable of making a difference at a high mid-major level who are happy sitting on the bench. This thin rotation is more because of injury/illness more than a reflection of the “Ford era”.

Don’t quote me, boy, i ain’t said s.....

That's poorly played by French. Jacobs has to know the screen is there ( French should have been yelling, and Jacobs should have known there was a good possibility) and it's clear he doesn't. I don't care whether we switch off screens normally or not, there isn't time for him to pass to French's man and get a shot off. French should have closed much quicker on the shooter and he possibly blocks it if he plays it correctly.

Ya know I looked at the replay several times. Our scorekeeper could have given us 0.8. That’s when the ball passed through the net, but it wouldn’t have mattered. I agree if the heave was good it would have been called off as with 0.1 you can’t catch and shoot. At 0.8 you can.

My biggest issue with the last play was that we didn't stop the ball. That's a golden rule. Crutcher went unimpeded 3/4 down the court. With 5 seconds left, you have to harass the ball-handler and try to make him give it up. Crutcher was also the one guy we don't want taking that last shot, so the focus should have been on marking him immediately after a made basket.

If we're 26-8 by the end of the season (13-5 non-conference, 2-1 in the league tourney), we're in the Dance whether we beat Dayton or not. 26 wins (or 25 wins counting D-1 only) in a very good mid-major league and solid non-conference schedule gets you in. That was the whole point of getting a bunch of top 150 teams on the non-conference schedule. So we wouldn't have to play perfect ball to have a chance at an at-large. Beating a top 10 team on the road would just be the icing on the cake.

Watched the replay of that shot a few times and wonder if TJ should have left his man to contest. Sure, his man would have been open, but not sure there would have been enough time for Crutcher to pass and the open guy to get the shot off. Tough split second decision for anyone, especially a freshman.

the 3 consecutive turnovers during dayton's 3p binge was really the crusher. empty possessions, no time off the clock and the lead blown quickly. players have to make the plays, tough to blame ford for the to's

This Team is a work in progress as most teams are. However this team is in particular is be cause of all the new players the Ford has needed to incorporate. As tough a loss as this was the take away for me is they are improving. TF teams since he has been at SLU have had rising trend lines even with his worst team. This game was close enough for me to think we will have a chance at Dayton, and we will beat VCU at home Rhody on the road...to be clear a tough loss, feel this pain and commit to improve!

I think some perspective is needed. I did some calculations on the odds of a 40% shooter from 3 making 6 in a row, and it was .004 or 1/250. You rarely ever see anyone make 6 in a row even in the warm up. I would take those odds every game...

Still stunned. Still down. Hoping a Bloody Mary will get me out of this funk...It can’t hurt.

We've known for a few years now that free throws are going to cost us some games. Last night was one of those games where any individual play or stat would have changed the outcome. I understand faulting free throws because that's the one area that only we control but at this point, I'm inclined to blame other aspects. The players and coaches know that they have to be a notch better in other areas of the game and that they have to make every little play because they know we're gonna leave free points at the line. We stopped defending for a few minutes last night and that was the difference for me

We went down low, but no attempt of iso, or strictly taking it to him

Do you think Ford wanted them to sag off? Go under screens? Against this team? Jesus man. Some are too stupid for the internet

At a BILLIKENS game?

The problem is depth, our guys get gassed at the end of the game and can’t keep up. If this team had thatch and jimerson, we could maybe be 17-1 right now.

yuri's body absorbs kinetic energy, like black panther. hyperspastic yurimania, they call it. i look for savagery in the last 8 minutes of the game.

Bring in Tay

Hightower to shoot two after the break. 21-16 good guys at the under 8. Has' is getting good shots. Needs to make them.

Yet, it’s obvious she still has eyes for you, you sly dog.