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OT: NIT vs. March Madness


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#21 slufan13

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:18 AM

NCAA. Not even a debate. Lock this thread. Might as well just give a trophy to every player in the country if you'd rather have NIT. Everyone is a winner.



#22 Deutschkind

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:26 AM

NCAA. Not even a debate. Lock this thread. Might as well just give a trophy to every player in the country if you'd rather have NIT. Everyone is a winner.

 

Except Kentucky



#23 Dwayne's_World

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:36 AM

I could name many of the teams eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tourney, but I cannot tell you any of the teams (besides Kentucky) that played in the NIT...



#24 DeSmetBilliken

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:38 AM

I'd take an NCAA first round loss over a long NIT run every time. No question about it.

That's not to say the NIT has no value. As others have posted, the NIT can be beneficial for a young team that isn't quite good enough to make the NCAAs yet. It gets them more games, more practices, and the chance to play in a tournament format. Still, I'd pick the NCAA early loss every time, and the decision would be easy.

I'm speculating here, but take Robert Morris for example. They made the NIT, likely due to winning their regular season conference title and losing the conference tournament. They hosted Kentucky in the first round of the NIT and beat UK. It was a great moment for them. Still, I would guess that many people affiliated with their program would've traded that for the chance to get their teeth kicked in by a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAAs.

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#25 sir boxington

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:52 AM

The experience of playing one game in the NCAA tournament for a young team is far more valuable than playing multiple NIT games.

 

Iowa was the runner-up in 2013.  They are having a great season this year.  The surprise of the Big 10.

 

Wichita St. won the NIT in 2011.  Final Four in 2013.

 

Baylor was the runner-up in the NIT in 2009.  They made it to the Regional Final of the 2010 NCAA.

 

West Virginia won in 2007.  They went to the Sweet 16 in 2008 after beating Duke in the round of 32.

 

I could go back further and find of more of these.  



#26 slu72

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:54 AM

Has anyone ever filled out an NIT bracket and bet money on it? Does the President fill out an NIT bracket? Is there an NIT bracketology watch? Is there a selection Sunday show for the NIT? Does SI devote a cover issue to the NIT?

#27 sir boxington

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 09:59 AM

I have bet money on the NIT In the past.  It's easier to pick those games than the first two rounds of the NCAA, since they are more regional and have non-neutral sites.  The NIT is run by the NCAA now.  There is a selection show for the NIT for the teams that won regular season titles.  Only ESPN cares about the President's bracket.



#28 slufan13

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:06 AM

Iowa was the runner-up in 2013.  They are having a great season this year.  The surprise of the Big 10.

 

Wichita St. won the NIT in 2011.  Final Four in 2013.

 

Baylor was the runner-up in the NIT in 2009.  They made it to the Regional Final of the 2010 NCAA.

 

West Virginia won in 2007.  They went to the Sweet 16 in 2008 after beating Duke in the round of 32.

 

I could go back further and find of more of these.  

 

Wichita St. First round loss in 2012. Final Four 2013.

 

Michigan. First round loss 2012. National Runner Up 2013.

 

Michigan St. First round loss 2011. 1 Seed and Sweet 16 2012.

 

Butler. First round loss 2009. National Runner Up 2010 and 2011.

 

I could go back further and find more of these.



#29 slu72

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:08 AM

On a bracket or individual games? Wonder what the ratings are for that selection show? Also, has any team, since they went to the 68 field, ever declined and opted to play in the NCAA? I'll agree if you are denied the NCAA, there's no disgrace playing in the NIT, especially if you're a young team. Great way to extend the learning curve, but most, if not all, coaches would prefer their kids get the dance experience.

#30 slu72 fan

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:08 AM

Has anyone ever filled out an NIT bracket and bet money on it? Does the President fill out an NIT bracket? Is there an NIT bracketology watch? Is there a selection Sunday show for the NIT? Does SI devote a cover issue to the NIT?


He would fill one out,if he could get on TV.

#31 JettFlight5

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:09 AM

The NIT is a failed season. End of story.


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#32 slufan13

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:10 AM

 Only ESPN cares about the President's bracket.

 

No. Nobody cares about the President's bracket. Just like nobody cares about my bracket. Or your bracket.



#33 brianstl

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:16 AM

Iowa was the runner-up in 2013.  They are having a great season this year.  The surprise of the Big 10.
 
Wichita St. won the NIT in 2011.  Final Four in 2013.
 
Baylor was the runner-up in the NIT in 2009.  They made it to the Regional Final of the 2010 NCAA.
 
West Virginia won in 2007.  They went to the Sweet 16 in 2008 after beating Duke in the round of 32.
 
I could go back further and find of more of these.  


I am sure you could, but each of those teams would have received more benefit by playing in the NCAA one game than a NIT run.

No one is arguing that there is no benefit from the NIT. That said, nothing prepares you for the NCAA tournament in future years better than playing in the NCAA tournament.
No excuses this year.

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#34 West Pine Jim

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:19 AM

The NIT is a good alternative for a young team. Maybe a couple of extra home games…extra practice… possibility to play in MSG. It's only a washout with a quick elimination.



#35 JettFlight5

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:21 AM

The NCAA added the NIT to the "Commitment to Participate" for a reason. Because teams were turning down bids.

 

CM Newton went into that at length last year when UK supporters said to turn down the NIT bid.


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#36 abas115

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

You trying to cheer up Mizzou fans?

Are you saying they even have a chance of winning the NIT? HAH. 

 

 

-I am curious, which side of the argument were you on?

-NCAA for all the reasons others have mentioned

I was on the same side as everybody here. It wasn't necessarily one side or the other, we agreed with each other, but we were trying to be unbiased and make an argument for either side.

 

 

Wichita St. First round loss in 2012. Final Four 2013.

 

Michigan. First round loss 2012. National Runner Up 2013.

 

Michigan St. First round loss 2011. 1 Seed and Sweet 16 2012.

 

Butler. First round loss 2009. National Runner Up 2010 and 2011.

 

I could go back further and find more of these.

The NIT is a good alternative for a young team. Maybe a couple of extra home games…extra practice… possibility to play in MSG. It's only a washout with a quick elimination.

That's what we were saying. I should've made the question more specific because our argument in favor of the NIT was if you're a young team, i.e. freshman and sophomores, the NIT tends to be much better experience than a whooping in the Round of 64. For example, Wichita St. or the SLU CBI team a few years back. I think victory and a longer season goes further in developing a young team than just the chance to play in the big dance. Not that any of those said players would rather have the NIT championship, but the argument is there... (kind of)


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#37 sir boxington

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:47 AM

BrianSTL from Jeffco, I said from the beginning, the question has a bad premise.  Of course, an NCAA bid is better, but you must look beyond that.  When the goal of a bid is reached, a lot of times those teams ride that for a week and are knocked out easily.  A failed bid and an invite to the NIT can be used by a coach and its players to try and validate a season.  It takes more gumption to raise yourself up after kick in the gut, and go out for 2-3 weeks and win five games.  And sometimes a first round NCAA loss will motivate a team the next year to not take the bid for granted. I'm sure Wichita learned just as much from their 2011 NIT run as it did their 2012 first round exit.

 

SLU 13, I think you and I both proved it depends on what kind of team you have.  Also, how could anyone care about my bracket when I don't fill out one.

 

SLU 72, the ratings for the NIT show are about the same as a Sunday afternoon women's game.  It's all part of the entire network package.



#38 sir boxington

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 10:57 AM

I could name many of the teams eliminated in the first round of the NCAA tourney, but I cannot tell you any of the teams (besides Kentucky) that played in the NIT...

 

I find this sentence interesting.  It would have been easy to put Mizzou in the first half, yet you didn't.  You did know Kentucky for the second half.

 

I challenge you to name just 10 of the 15 at-large NCAA selections to lose in the first round of 2013 NCAA's, WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP.  ( I mention at-large because those are really the teams that are comparable to this option.)



#39 slufan13

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:04 AM

I find this sentence interesting.  It would have been easy to put Mizzou in the first half, yet you didn't.  You did know Kentucky for the second half.

 

I challenge you to name just 10 more of the 30 at-large NCAA selections to lose in the first round of 2013 NCAA's, WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP.  ( I mention at-large because those are really the teams that are comparable to this option.)

 

I don't know all the conference tourney winners so I don't know who is at large but I'll give you more than 10 to make up for it.

 

Oklahoma St.

Wisconsin

Pittsburgh

Georgetown

Kansas St

Colorado

New Mexico

Villanova

Notre Dame 

Cincinnati 

UNLV

Oklahoma

 

probably more. and no i did not look these up. its not that hard to remember especially if you're one of the hundreds of millions who fill out a bracket.



#40 slufan13

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

Also petition to ban sir boxington for coming on here to be nothing but a troll. Getting tired of all these people.