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Couldn't we just start the freshman like in 2010-2011


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Cassity and Conklin played a ton that year too, which clearly didn't stunt the freshmen's development. I don't think guys like Yacoubou and McBroom starting is going to hurt this year's freshmen. Manning is getting only very limited minutes, and I wouldn't expect much more for Glaze when and if he's ever fully healthy again.

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Even Evans didn't start at the beginning of his freshman year. Which of the freshmen are you saying should start and/or are having their growth stunted because they aren't starting? Jolly and Gilmann are both already seeing significant minutes. Would it really make a huge difference years down the road if one of them took the opening tip instead of Manning this season? And what kind of message would it send if McBroom and Yacoubou, clearly the two biggest scoring threats right now, were benched while the team is having trouble getting its offense going?

What exactly is the complaint here?

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Well, Lancona and Agbeko have been the guys to start at the 4. Not freshmen in the technical sense, but they might as well be with how little they got to play last year between injuries and committing to playing time for all five seniors. If you're building for a year or two down the road, you need to see what you have in those two guys as well. All of the above are getting playing time in the current huge rotation, so I really don't see what there is to complain about as far as development goes, unless you'd like to see Manning pushed to the end of the bench with the walk-ons.

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Quick breakdown and may not tell the whole story, but through 3 games:

Min played by class/Scoring by class

SR: 7% / 4%

JR: 27% / 41%

Soph: 22% / 17%

Frosh: 44% / 38%

Now, if you break it down by how many people playing in each in class, each person is averaging x% of playing time:

SR: 7% (only Manning at this point)

JR: 13% (2)

Soph: 7% (3)

Frosh: 7% (6)

Players in order by minutes played (granted small sample size so one game could create a big swing):

McBroom (29.7), Ash (24.7), Crawford (19.7), Roby (19.3), Bartley (17), Yarbrough (14), Manning (13.7), Gillman (13.3), Agbeko/Jolly (12.7), Reynolds (12), Lancona (11.3)

Feels to me like everyone is getting a fair shot to get out on the court and make a difference. I think there could be a complaint if the Frosh weren't getting into games, but right now everyone is getting significant minutes. I personally would like to see us be able to shorten our rotation, but I think we need some people to stand out to do that....

At the end of the day, even with the loss yesterday, I'm excited about this team. Yes, I want to win this year, but it looks like we have a nice base heading into the future.

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Maybe just an example of a kid wanting to play the position he would in an NBA lineup, but I was a little surprised to hear Yarbrough still talking about being a guard and only playing the 4 because Glaze is hurt. Even if Grandy was around, he should be an option at the 4 on this team.

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Yarbrough needs to play more. Crawford and Gillmann need more than 8 and 5 minutes respectively. Roby was playing well so I somewhat understand the limited Crawford minutes, but then Crews went to Bartley, McBroom, Yacoubou down the stretch so I didn't really get that either. I thought Reynolds was good yesterday yet he only got 9 minutes.

I don't necessarily know if the freshmen need to start but I would like to see them play more. I hate to keep ragging on the guy, but we all know what we have in Manning right now. None of us really know what we have in Jolly and Gillmann so I guess I'd like to give them a shot (especially Gillmann based on the first 2 games). Manning shouldn't be playing 16 minutes a game and if he is, he needs to pull down more than 1 rebound.

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Is anyone else pleased with the smooth ball handling by Bartley? I think Crews is letting him take the ball down the court more often to take some minutes from McBroom, and he appeared very comfortable in getting around their defender when he pressed. I think he can be a very good point if he puts on some more weight and continues developing

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Yarbrough needs to play more. Crawford and Gillmann need more than 8 and 5 minutes respectively. Roby was playing well so I somewhat understand the limited Crawford minutes, but then Crews went to Bartley, McBroom, Yacoubou down the stretch so I didn't really get that either. I thought Reynolds was good yesterday yet he only got 9 minutes.

I don't necessarily know if the freshmen need to start but I would like to see them play more. I hate to keep ragging on the guy, but we all know what we have in Manning right now. None of us really know what we have in Jolly and Gillmann so I guess I'd like to give them a shot (especially Gillmann based on the first 2 games). Manning shouldn't be playing 16 minutes a game and if he is, he needs to pull down more than 1 rebound.

Crawford got quick fouls both of the first two times he came in the game, if I remember correctly. Not a reason he didn't play late, but he did not look very good in general, especially in comparison to Roby and Yacoubou. So it was hardly upperclassmen who kept him off the court.

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Is anyone else pleased with the smooth ball handling by Bartley? I think Crews is letting him take the ball down the court more often to take some minutes from McBroom, and he appeared very comfortable in getting around their defender when he pressed. I think he can be a very good point if he puts on some more weight and continues developing

Bartley is definitely the most true point guard we've had in a while in my opinion.

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Crawford got quick fouls both of the first two times he came in the game, if I remember correctly. Not a reason he didn't play late, but he did not look very good in general, especially in comparison to Roby and Yacoubou. So it was hardly upperclassmen who kept him off the court.

Agree that Crawford didn't look great yesterday, but he also played well the first 2 games so not sure I would've given up on him as fast as Crews did yesterday. I absolutely would have had Roby out there over Crawford but again neither was on the court down the stretch on the offensive end.

Also we had one possession where Crawford had post position on Jordan or Pie (can't remember) and we didn't exploit that 4 or 5 inch advantage.

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To answer the initial question, yeah, maybe we could. Or at least give them more minutes.

I've only seen them play once, at Indiana State, and a major concern here seems to be the Kyle Cassity/Jake Barnett problem - is the head coach being too loyal to his upperclassmen at the expense of more experience, development, and winning for the underclassmen?

The good news is that it's really only one veteran player - Manning - who people here seem upset about, right? I think this question really extends to the rest of the roster, as everyone but Manning, McBroom, and Glaze is something of an unknown.

I'd still be experimenting with lineups and playing all scholarship players if I were Crews. This is a development season, with nothing to lose. Manning and Glaze have already gotten three NCAA Tournaments, more than all but four other players in SLU history can say. So no one is getting cheated out of anything if we do what's best for the program and the development of the younger players.

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I don't see AM as a 1 plus I like him off the bench still getting 25 mpg. From what I've seen I really like Bartley, but hell these are frosh and it changes daily

Yep...same with the Sophomores. Yacoubou has probably been the most consistent, but even he has been blah at times.

I really don't see how Crews can justify Manning's minutes from here on out. Gillmann got just as many rebounds (1) in 1/3 of the minutes yesterday. If Manning were rebounding and defending well, he should play. If he isn't, he rides the bench. Pretty simple.

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We started predominately freshmen in 91-92 and ended up 5-23. That was an excellent freshman class with Highmark, Claggett, Winfield, Skinner, Grant, Grawer, & Bickel. Not sure anyone wants to go through that again.

You left off Brian Smith - who got ejected on Quitman Dillard senior day.

Skinner played 21 games in 1990-91 so he sure wasn't a freshman in 1991-92 - when he bounced mid season.

Eric Bickel played 2 seasons, then redshirted, then the team got good, and he was never heard from again...

I have no recollection of Grant, but apparently he had 24 and 10 in the opening game against Bradley (a 10 point 63-53 loss). I guess he peaced out after Skinner.

The coaches sons Winfield and Grawer transferred to Mizzou and Tulsa.

I'd like to know more about what all went down that year. Orlando Stewart got kicked out of school for stealing before the season even started or was he gone before the end of the previous year? I think Big Mel had some sort of legal entanglements that led to his leaving - or possibly I'm confused and he left THEN got into legal trouble before supposedly transferring to Arizona St - where he never played - a year or so before that ASU point shaving scandal.

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You left off Brian Smith - who got ejected on Quitman Dillard senior day.

Skinner played 21 games in 1990-91 so he sure wasn't a freshman in 1991-92 - when he bounced mid season.

Eric Bickel played 2 seasons, then redshirted, then the team got good, and he was never heard from again...

I have no recollection of Grant, but apparently he had 24 and 10 in the opening game against Bradley (a 10 point 63-53 loss). I guess he peaced out after Skinner.

The coaches sons Winfield and Grawer transferred to Mizzou and Tulsa.

I'd like to know more about what all went down that year. Orlando Stewart got kicked out of school for stealing before the season even started or was he gone before the end of the previous year? I think Big Mel had some sort of legal entanglements that led to his leaving - or possibly I'm confused and he left THEN got into legal trouble before supposedly transferring to Arizona St - where he never played - a year or so before that ASU point shaving scandal.

Grant was a center/power forward out of Illinois. Probably the best player on that team but had a serious medical problem. I'm not sure but I think it was some kind of back issue and he had to give up playing.
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You left off Brian Smith - who got ejected on Quitman Dillard senior day.

Skinner played 21 games in 1990-91 so he sure wasn't a freshman in 1991-92 - when he bounced mid season.

Eric Bickel played 2 seasons, then redshirted, then the team got good, and he was never heard from again...

I have no recollection of Grant, but apparently he had 24 and 10 in the opening game against Bradley (a 10 point 63-53 loss). I guess he peaced out after Skinner.

The coaches sons Winfield and Grawer transferred to Mizzou and Tulsa.

I'd like to know more about what all went down that year. Orlando Stewart got kicked out of school for stealing before the season even started or was he gone before the end of the previous year? I think Big Mel had some sort of legal entanglements that led to his leaving - or possibly I'm confused and he left THEN got into legal trouble before supposedly transferring to Arizona St - where he never played - a year or so before that ASU point shaving scandal.

Bickel ended up at UMSL. Wasn't even a good player there.

No idea where Brian Smith ended up.

Grant tore up his knee against DePaul. I remember watching it on TV as a kid. Tons of potential.

We all know what Winfield did at Mizzou. A lot gets said about how he insisted on being a pg and was used in the wrong position his freshman year. That is true, but we had no pg on that team, we had no choice. At Mizzou he played in a tweener role and was very good at it.

Grawer was a decent player at Tulsa. Certainly not great.

This meltdown year had been building for several years. Grawer had lost the direction of the program, some due to his own work, others due to the bungling of the good Father. Grawer's 2 year feud with Kevin Footes weighed on a lot of players. Grawer cut corners on recruiting, bringing in questionable kids. Stewart famously sucker punched John Duff in practice, was suspended in the MCC tournament, and then was released from his scholarship,. Stewart wound up at Oklahoma City college and was summarily kicked off that team. Jorge Wallace also was plagued with legal problems and left the team. Those two were our starting backcourt.

Biondi, in hindsight, rightly refused to extend Grawer before the season despite Yow's protestations. that put Grawer and his staff under even more pressure adding into it that the dysfunctional team now has Grawer and Winfield's sons on the team doing their best to save their father's jobs.

Melvin was the first to strike. He and Floyd Irons notified Yow he was leaving the team, without telling Grawer first. Irons publicly criticized Grawer in the media as well. Big Mel transferred to AZ st, never played then went pro. His career arc was similar to Willie Reed's. A couple 10 day contracts but never made the NBA.

Then it was Skinner's turn. Skinner took himself out of the game against Chicago St. When Grawer yanked him Skinner took the tape off his hands and feet so he couldn't play anymore. His mother saw him and came out of the stands to chastise him during the game. He left the team soon thereafter.

Irvin just walked off the court against Memphis St in the middle of the game. Never came back.

Grawer had no power, with no contract. He had lost the confidence of the players and many of them realized he had zero authority and they walked all over him. The freshman took over Claggett, Highmark, Winfield, and Grawer to a point. While Grawer is given a ton of credit for bringing in this great class, he was forced to misuse his top recruit, and half the class were borderline D-1 players at least the Great Midwest level in Bickel, Smith & Grawer.

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