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Guys. Keep in mind that DE mostly played the 4 his Freshman year. And last year, BC was a fixture at the 4. According to the stats on this Board, BC played 29.4 mpg. Factoring in many of the blowout games when RM rested his starters (including BC), this means that BC rarely came out of the game when the game was on-the-line. Therefore, for one of our better players, DE, to get minutes, yes, I guess he played the 3 as opposed to playing the 1, 2 or 5 (I don't remember this ever happening).

Just out of curiousity, I did the same calcs on Dwayne's freshman year and it looks like he played about 50% of the time at the 4 and 50% at the 3. That assumes that every minute Cody played was at the 4 spot, which I don't think is true but even if it was, he was about 50/50.

Why anyone would want to convert DE back to a 4 is beyond me. He's the exact prototype of what a big time SF can be and if he's been working on his outside shot then watch-out. The only way he plays the 4 is if the other 4 bigs aren't good enough to be on the court and I don't think thats going to happen. Instead of comparing him to players like Virgil Cobbin what about a guy like Maurice Jeffers?

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Skip. You are wrong. Small forward is different than a wing or 3 guard. Get with the program.

Frankly, believe I know understand where you are coming from. For over a year now, we've been reading your some old tired posts about DE converting to a 3 based almost exclusively upon his height. Thought you were stating something new this time. Sorry for my mistake.

He isn't CONVERTING to a 3, nor have I suggested he do so. What I've said is he is a 3. The 3 in a traditional line-up is the small forward, in a 3 guard line-up it's of course the 3rd guard. So if you want him to play the "small forward" are you suggesting we play without a traditional 4 or dare I say power forward? Or is it the 5 or center we'll do without? If we have a center and a powerforward on the court, the small forward would be the 3. See how easy that is? Now of course, you can call it a wing, or a 3 guard if you like, or you can stick with small forward, but it's all really the same position that just may be used differently. All 3 guards don't have to be great perimiter shooters and some small forwards could be good shooters.

The mistake you should apologize for isn't just this post, it's the majority of your posts. Don't stop though, a good chuckle now and then helps the day go by.

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Just out of curiousity, I did the same calcs on Dwayne's freshman year and it looks like he played about 50% of the time at the 4 and 50% at the 3. That assumes that every minute Cody played was at the 4 spot, which I don't think is true but even if it was, he was about 50/50.

Why anyone would want to convert DE back to a 4 is beyond me. He's the exact prototype of what a big time SF can be and if he's been working on his outside shot then watch-out. The only way he plays the 4 is if the other 4 bigs aren't good enough to be on the court and I don't think thats going to happen. Instead of comparing him to players like Virgil Cobbin what about a guy like Maurice Jeffers?

And most likely he would have seen more of his minutes at the 3 if Cody didn't get hurt midway through that season. My thought is that if Cody would not have gotten hurt that year then DE would have played the majority of his time at the 3. DE was playing minutes at the 4 mostly out of necessity at the end of the season.

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Just out of curiousity, I did the same calcs on Dwayne's freshman year and it looks like he played about 50% of the time at the 4 and 50% at the 3. That assumes that every minute Cody played was at the 4 spot, which I don't think is true but even if it was, he was about 50/50.

Why anyone would want to convert DE back to a 4 is beyond me. He's the exact prototype of what a big time SF can be and if he's been working on his outside shot then watch-out. The only way he plays the 4 is if the other 4 bigs aren't good enough to be on the court and I don't think thats going to happen. Instead of comparing him to players like Virgil Cobbin what about a guy like Maurice Jeffers?

Maurice Jeffers is who I think of, but if I remember correctly Mo got to the rim mostly using his quickness where DE isn't that quick, he gets there using his smarts and his strength. Either way, they are 3's that get it done by attacking the rim rather than shooting from the perimiter

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And most likely he would have seen more of his minutes at the 3 if Cody didn't get hurt midway through that season. My thought is that if Cody would not have gotten hurt that year then DE would have played the majority of his time at the 3. DE was playing minutes at the 4 mostly out of necessity at the end of the season.

That's correct. Without Cody playing as much we had BC, RL, and CR as bigs which pushed DE to the "4". He didn't really ever play a traditional 4 type role though, more like the 4th guard in a small lineup.

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Guys. Keep in mind that DE mostly played the 4 his Freshman year. And last year, BC was a fixture at the 4. According to the stats on this Board, BC played 29.4 mpg. Factoring in many of the blowout games when RM rested his starters (including BC), this means that BC rarely came out of the game when the game was on-the-line. Therefore, for one of our better players, DE, to get minutes, yes, I guess he played the 3 as opposed to playing the 1, 2 or 5 (I don't remember this ever happening).

Skip. The problem, of course, is that DE's game is not typically played by a 3. DE's outside shot and guard skills hopefully have improved but DE was not all that helpful with dribbling skills last year and he was anything but a threat from the outside. Trying to think of prior players who played the 3 and TL comes to mind. Yes, TL greatly improved his outside shot during college/after this Freshman year; however, he was a natural guard having always played the guard position. As to Scott Highmark, yes, I held my breath when he dribbled to break the other team's press; however, he was pure outside shooter, was a natural guard and played guard his whole life. Same with Virgil Cobbin who was much more of a guard as opposed to a "back to the basket" type of player. Donnie Dobbs was only 6'2" but he was always an undersized 4. Luke Meyer played a little at the 3, hit a few outside shots, etc. but he was mostly an undersized 4. At this time last year, this Board had alot of discussions and hope that CE would change his game to become a 3 (mostly b/c he can hit the outside shot) but that didn't happen and probably won't happen this year either. Probably the same with DE as it is very rare and difficult for a player to change his game during his college career. DE is a tweener. DE's natural game is that of a post player (4) but he stopped growing at 6'4" and he is not 6'9".

Even if he plays the 3 this year, I don't see him dribbling much more than he did last year and I don't see him being our outside threat. Instead, he plays like a small forward and I see him hitting the open 15 footer, him taking the ball inside, him making smart interior passes and him battling like a beast on the boards. Believe we will see this same game from him if he plays the 4 this year. DE will get his minutes this year. The only real difference will be which other 4 players RM puts out on the floor with him. Therefore, IMO, as long as DE remains healthy and continues to develop, he will be on the floor playing his regular game (that of a small forward) and his actual position of 3 v. 4 will probably be dictacted less by him and more by his teammates. If RL, CE, CR, JM and GG are playing so well that RM is forced to play 2 at all/most times, then DE will play the 3. If, on the other hand, KM, MM, JJ, JB and Keith Carter are playing so well that RM is forced to play 3 at all/most times, then DE will play the 4.

I missed the line in bold. See, that's why you should keep posting.

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I have confidence in Rickma playing Dwayne in a role that will most benefit him and the team, a 31/2 dynamo, as it were. After our success last year with an odd assortment of too- shorts here and 3- pointer shooting bigs there, I've given up on the traditional number designations for players' positions. Let's just play the guys who produce good results.. Hope our youngsters come through a bit.

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"The 3 in a traditional line-up is the small forward, in a 3 guard line-up it's of course the 3rd guard. So if you want him to play the "small forward" are you suggesting we play without a traditional 4 or dare I say power forward? Or is it the 5 or center we'll do without? If we have a center and a powerforward on the court, the small forward would be the 3. See how easy that is? Now of course, you can call it a wing, or a 3 guard if you like, or you can stick with small forward, but it's all really the same position that just may be used differently. All 3 guards don't have to be great perimiter shooters and some small forwards could be good shooters."

Skip. Let me make this simple for you. When a small forward is playing the 3, the team has 3 players with primarily forward skills on the floor and when a wing or 3 guard is playing the 3, then the team has 3 players with primarily guard skills on the floor. This is a lot more than word games. Frankly, I'm surprised at your posts in that I figured you understood this concept. Instead, all you have repeatedly done is say that DE is a 3. If that is all you mean with your numerous posts in this thread, then I get it -- again. If you are saying anything new or different than in the past, then I guess I'm not following.

As to DE, he is one of our better players, he deserves a lot of minutes and he will get them. With that said, DE possesses better forward skills (posting up, playing with his back to the basket, rebounding, interior passing, etc.) than guard skills (dribbling, shooting, perimeter passing, etc.) so thoughts of DE playing the 4 (and allowing our talented players with guard skills - KM, MM, JJ, JB and Carter) should not be dismissed so easily as you have done throughout this thread.

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it's not that i want evans to be a power forward. my priorities would be to keep jett, mccall and mitchell on the floor as much as possible. and that means playing three guards. add to the mix the expectations of carter could be quite the traffic jam for 1-3 minutes. pf though is not crowded. while i was very happy with ellis improvements at all facets of his game, he isnt evans. and the same but even moreso could be said about the rest of the billikens mediocre "bigs". i.e. i think playing evans as the fourth guard/power forward becomes a huge advantage and a natural move to enable us to keep our very fine true guards in the game as much as possible. benching a billiken guard this year in an effort to give more time to most of our true "bigs" seems silly. same with evans. i just want to maximize the guards and evans time on the floor. divide the 5 minutes and the rest minutes of our three guards and evans amongst the bigs left over.

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This thread is getting old,but this notion that DE can't put the ball on the floor is crazy. He's got a good first step and the strength to get to the hole. While I do agree with Taj that he has to many misses (blocks) his ball handling is not a problem. Dwayne will the teams most productive player,playing the 3position.

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Roy, there are 120 minutes per game available at the 1-3 spots. Split among the 4 players you want to play the most that's 30 minutes per game. Quite frankly I don't think any of those guys need more than 30 per game.

Mizzou played with a 4 guard offense last year because they had to. We don't have to as we have 3 bigs with a lot of experience and another 2 that we are told can play. We've got the depth and absent an injury or none of the bigs stepping up I don't see why we'd want to move DE from his natural position. He was a damn good 3 last year and will be even better the next two.

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Roy, there are 120 minutes per game available at the 1-3 spots. Split among the 4 players you want to play the most that's 30 minutes per game. Quite frankly I don't think any of those guys need more than 30 per game.

Mizzou played with a 4 guard offense last year because they had to. We don't have to as we have 3 bigs with a lot of experience and another 2 that we are told can play. We've got the depth and absent an injury or none of the bigs stepping up I don't see why we'd want to move DE from his natural position. He was a damn good 3 last year and will be even better the next two.

This is really all that needs to be said.

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Skip. You are wrong. Small forward is different than a wing or 3 guard. Get with the program.

Frankly, believe I know understand where you are coming from. For over a year now, we've been reading your some old tired posts about DE converting to a 3 based almost exclusively upon his height. Thought you were stating something new this time. Sorry for my mistake.

Sorry, but you're incorrect, Clock, and Skip is correct. The "3" position is not typically a guard but a small forward.

1 - point guard

2 - shooting/scoring guard

3 - wing/small forward

4 - power forward

5 - center

Dwayne Evans is definitely a small forward or 3-man. Last year he practiced with the guards in position breakouts. Jared Drew will likely do the same.

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My cousin's husband's friend's father-in-law saw Dwayne at the gym yesterday and said he has put on 100 lbs of muscle and grew 5 inches. Can't wait to see the new Dwayne

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"The 3 in a traditional line-up is the small forward, in a 3 guard line-up it's of course the 3rd guard. So if you want him to play the "small forward" are you suggesting we play without a traditional 4 or dare I say power forward? Or is it the 5 or center we'll do without? If we have a center and a powerforward on the court, the small forward would be the 3. See how easy that is? Now of course, you can call it a wing, or a 3 guard if you like, or you can stick with small forward, but it's all really the same position that just may be used differently. All 3 guards don't have to be great perimiter shooters and some small forwards could be good shooters."

Skip. Let me make this simple for you. When a small forward is playing the 3, the team has 3 players with primarily forward skills on the floor and when a wing or 3 guard is playing the 3, then the team has 3 players with primarily guard skills on the floor. This is a lot more than word games. Frankly, I'm surprised at your posts in that I figured you understood this concept. Instead, all you have repeatedly done is say that DE is a 3. If that is all you mean with your numerous posts in this thread, then I get it -- again. If you are saying anything new or different than in the past, then I guess I'm not following.

As to DE, he is one of our better players, he deserves a lot of minutes and he will get them. With that said, DE possesses better forward skills (posting up, playing with his back to the basket, rebounding, interior passing, etc.) than guard skills (dribbling, shooting, perimeter passing, etc.) so thoughts of DE playing the 4 (and allowing our talented players with guard skills - KM, MM, JJ, JB and Carter) should not be dismissed so easily as you have done throughout this thread.

Why would I be saying anything different? The thing is some people want him to be a 4. I've said all along and will continue to say, that's insane. Now if we didn't have the players to fill the traditional 4 role and DE was our best option ok. However, we do. DE needs to play away from and facing the basket. His best asset is his ability to put the ball on the floor and use his strength to drive to the basket. I agree his skills translate to that of a traditional small forward, but in todays game that position and a bigger 3 guard type player have become almost the same. Some of them skills lead more to shooting and some lead more to driving to the basket. DE is more of the driver or slasher ala Tommie except with strength instead of athleticism and quickness. IF DE played the traditional 4 guarding a big, his rebounding wouldn't be as dynamic as he would very often be the smaller player. At the 3, he's a very good rebounder due to his strength and smarts. DE can and should also be able to take advantage of match ups and post his defender up now and then, however, at the 4, he would not be a guy you'd frequently post up as he's just not big enough.

You are getting all bent out of shape on whether a 3 is a shooter or a driver or slasher. This entire thing with DE began over people saying he should bulk up and play the 4. My opinion has always been and won't change in that he should continue to do what he does but work on his shot and become more of a perimeter scorer to go along with his current ability to drive to the hole. IF he does that he'll be as close to unstoppable as we've seen in a player as it is very hard defensively to take away a guys outside shot and prevent him from beating you with the dribble. IF he were to bulk up and move to becoming a primarily inside back to the basket scorer we are limiting his potential upside.

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Why would I be saying anything different? The thing is some people want him to be a 4. I've said all along and will continue to say, that's insane. Now if we didn't have the players to fill the traditional 4 role and DE was our best option ok. However, we do. DE needs to play away from and facing the basket. His best asset is his ability to put the ball on the floor and use his strength to drive to the basket. I agree his skills translate to that of a traditional small forward, but in todays game that position and a bigger 3 guard type player have become almost the same. Some of them skills lead more to shooting and some lead more to driving to the basket. DE is more of the driver or slasher ala Tommie except with strength instead of athleticism and quickness. IF DE played the traditional 4 guarding a big, his rebounding wouldn't be as dynamic as he would very often be the smaller player. At the 3, he's a very good rebounder due to his strength and smarts. DE can and should also be able to take advantage of match ups and post his defender up now and then, however, at the 4, he would not be a guy you'd frequently post up as he's just not big enough.

You are getting all bent out of shape on whether a 3 is a shooter or a driver or slasher. This entire thing with DE began over people saying he should bulk up and play the 4. My opinion has always been and won't change in that he should continue to do what he does but work on his shot and become more of a perimeter scorer to go along with his current ability to drive to the hole. IF he does that he'll be as close to unstoppable as we've seen in a player as it is very hard defensively to take away a guys outside shot and prevent him from beating you with the dribble. IF he were to bulk up and move to becoming a primarily inside back to the basket scorer we are limiting his potential upside.

I believe we should play DE at the 5. Or maybe the 6.

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My cousin's husband's friend's father-in-law saw Dwayne at the gym yesterday and said he has put on 100 lbs of muscle and grew 5 inches. Can't wait to see the new Dwayne

If Porter Moser were still here, every player would have gained 200 lbs of muscle this offseason.

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Why would I be saying anything different? The thing is some people want him to be a 4. I've said all along and will continue to say, that's insane. Now if we didn't have the players to fill the traditional 4 role and DE was our best option ok. However, we do. DE needs to play away from and facing the basket. His best asset is his ability to put the ball on the floor and use his strength to drive to the basket. I agree his skills translate to that of a traditional small forward, but in todays game that position and a bigger 3 guard type player have become almost the same. Some of them skills lead more to shooting and some lead more to driving to the basket. DE is more of the driver or slasher ala Tommie except with strength instead of athleticism and quickness. IF DE played the traditional 4 guarding a big, his rebounding wouldn't be as dynamic as he would very often be the smaller player. At the 3, he's a very good rebounder due to his strength and smarts. DE can and should also be able to take advantage of match ups and post his defender up now and then, however, at the 4, he would not be a guy you'd frequently post up as he's just not big enough.

You are getting all bent out of shape on whether a 3 is a shooter or a driver or slasher. This entire thing with DE began over people saying he should bulk up and play the 4. My opinion has always been and won't change in that he should continue to do what he does but work on his shot and become more of a perimeter scorer to go along with his current ability to drive to the hole. IF he does that he'll be as close to unstoppable as we've seen in a player as it is very hard defensively to take away a guys outside shot and prevent him from beating you with the dribble. IF he were to bulk up and move to becoming a primarily inside back to the basket scorer we are limiting his potential upside.

Skip. I appreciate the return to civility. Thank you.

Not disagreeing entirely with this last post of yours. IF DE can become a perimeter scorer, then yes, DE will be close to unstoppable. To date, though, DE has not shown such ability. And unless I am mistaken, very few players go from a non-perimeter threat to that of a perimeter threat during college. Not intending to give you a history lesson in my original post. For that matter, JJ also hasn't shown the ability to stretch the defenses and hit from the perimeter. IMO, our lack of a really good, consistent 3 point shooter (since KL) has been a real problem for this team and that Top 20 is not truly possible without a better, more consisent outside threat (from the 2 and 3 positions) and not from the 1, 4 and 5 positions. Once again, IMO, CE will be the key to this season. If CE can handle most the minutes at the 4, and in doing so take his defender out to the perimeter, then DE playing the 3 can take his defender to the inside. In essence, our 3 and 4 could become more inter-changeable and truly complement each other. Last year, BC was great for us; however, he exclusively played as an over-achieving, undersized-power forward and could not draw his defender to the perimeter or switch with DE or JJ at the 3 or with RL or CE at the 5. RM's offense is keyed upon the 1 and 4 and I am expecting RM's offense to become even more fun to watch this year.

If, however, CE does not step-up and take the majority of minutes at the 4 and if DE plays the 3 but again does not bring a perimeter threat, then where will our 3 point shooting come from? I am expecting CE to step-up and am confident he will help us get over the loss of BC, but if he doesn't then I share Roy's comments about the need to play 3 guards - and while I am not thrilled about another undersized (6'4" powerforward) - we then might need DE to log some minutes at the 4 (for the good of the team and not DE's own personal development/growth).

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