Taj79 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 .....warning, warning --- doom, gloom and despair to follow. Danger, danger Wil Robinson (might be no one old enough to get that quote). I am certainly perplexed. If freshmen are no longer freshmen at this time of the season, then just how do you fathom and understand last night's fiasco? You might say Mason shot like 71% from the floor in the first half and finished shooting like 60% for the game but with all the layups and putbacks and other relatively easy shots, you also have to blame the defense for failing big time. I watched Bartley, then Roby, then McBroom then Reynolds get beaten time after time off the simple dribble. Then, especially when Gillmann rotated to contest the shot, Yarbrough, Yacoubou and Agbeko failed to rotate to Gillmann's man allowing quite a few easy ones including Julian Royal's dunk on a putback. Julian Freakin' Royal! There was so much wrong on so many levels ---- from really poor defense as noted, to horrible shooting (37% and 32% if you take Agebko out of the mix) to the usual inability to shoot free throws especially when the first one made gets you a second. Bartley made a three --- when the game was long over -- and finished with three points. Yacoubou scored on a jumper at the 11:32 mark and a three at the 9:55 mark both in the first half --- and finished with those five points. As Bay likes to say you still have to put the ball in the basket. John Manning nothing. Brett Jolly nothing. Miles Reynolds nothing. And Austin McBroom nothing (with two whole minutes of playing time). Lancona was just as productive as those four guys combined without seeing the floor. You can glean all that from the box score sure but watching that game was extremely excruciating. It reminded me of some of the program's darkest moments from back in the Ekker/Grawer days. Back in those days, the outcome was inevitable --- only a miracle would change the course of the game and more times than not, that did not happen. Attendance at the old 9,000 seat Kiel was between 1 and 2 thousand. The same in the even more cavernous Checkerdome/Arena. Over the past five years, I've felt we could win every game. We were never out of it from the opening tap. Last night, that game was over after the first double digit lead for Mason which occurred just past the first quarter mark. I am inclined to believe that is what happens to a youthful team playing in front of a less than packed house, in a season on decline,against an opponent you don't really care about. But then my pride gets riled up and I challenge myself --- which no one seemed to do last night, including the coaches. It is hard to watch what happens on the bench during yanks and time outs so I'll defer to someone in the know but it seemed no one on the bench could rally the troops either. The play was ragged, sloppy. Turnovers were made of the mind-blowing type. In one yank, Yacoubou went right off the court to the first open seat by Platt and basically seemed to sulk in what little I could see. Right now this seems to be a season that can't end soon enough. Observations: Roby is not the answer at the point. He does not engage defenders and distribute the ball as a point should. He's a keeper, but he is a slashing wing and possible lockdown defender. Neither the current versions of Reynolds or Bartley are points either. Neither engage the defense as noted and Bartley picks his dribble up at the worst possible locations. And we know it ain't McBroom as well. I don't know if a true point guard is on the current roster. I still don't know what the end goal is of our offense. If it's to make pass after pass and then panic to beat the shot clock,we have that down and lead the nation. The screening is abysmal ---- from guys not using the picks correctly to the picker taking off before the screen is used. I get the feeling half the picks we set are "fake" picks. And that too is disturbing if I can't tell. And every team we play leaves our low bigs to challenge Ash and Milik's drives because by now, they know nothing bad will happen to them as our guys can't rebound on the offensive end to save their souls. Only Reggie can and he's 50/50 as to whether he secures the ball or dribbles off his foot or loses it through his hands. I liked the experimental lineup of Roby, Yacoubou, Yarbrough, Agbeko and Gillmann. Of course, in that lineup we have no mid-range shooting whatsoever. It's either bunnies from Reggie, Ash and Milik or threes from Roby and Gillmann. All of which miss more times than not. Out of all of last night my fear is for the future ...... as noted in the opening, freshmen should not be freshmen right now but I see no discernable learning and improvement but actually more regression from this group. I don't know if that is on them, or on the coaching staff or if the coaching staff has lost these kids or combinations of all three. As we move forward, we lose Manning and Glaze but get two more big projects in Neufeld and Welmer. To a staff that is also under questions as that future unfolds. One has to expect transfers but one also knows you can't fire the whole roster. Firing the coach seems absurd as I noted in the game day thread. So we look to the future each and every time this team takes to the court --- three more times this year -- and hope does not spring eternal, at least for me. I thought I heard boos when they left the court last night. I'm caught between that being warranted and supporting the boys as best I can. If I was there, I'd probably direct my anger at the head man-- he gets paid for all this not the kids. This same team is back next year as it currently stands. Batten down the hatches. Can't wait (but that doesn't have the same oomph it used to have). That was the most uninspired exhibition I have seen in quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 When a team comes out and doesn't care, it makes it hard to evaluate the game objectively. So I'll do it in one sentence. That sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Good analysis, Taj Mahal 79. Your doom and gloom is justified based on last night's performance, and, I guess, the previous debacle against DU, whom ST.B's beat by double figures. This team appears to be a rudderless ship, and why can't I get the song Motherless Child out of my head when watching them disintegrate like last night. The few camera shots of JC last night showed a man who was dumbfounded by what was taking place right in front of him. There was one possession where GM got 4 offensive rebounds off misses, and they all weren't underneath the basket. One actually bounded towards mid court and our guys just stood and watched a GM guard race to the ball and steal it. To me that set was symbolic of the whole game. Clearly,our guys did not come to play a D1 game last night. Progress, development, improvement? I don't see it. It looks more like regression to me. Maybe even a complete meltdown. Watch closely for that over the next 3 games. One very much gets the feeling the white towel has been tossed into the ring. Why did the words "No Mas... no mas" reverberate last night? Because we looked like a punch drunk boxer. So, we're left to look towards next season, and I don't see the cavalry anywhere on the horizon. I've posted a couple of times that there has to be a few malcontents that have infected this team. It certainly looked like they all had the flu last night. Lazy passes, unforced errors, drives into a brick wall of GM bigs, and no hustle. So, hopefully the malcontents, whoever they are, leave. It doesn't matter who they are, just go. I was beginning to think we had a core of players who actually cared. Last night destroyed that thought. I don't know what we have right now. Another song metaphor, "Should I stay or should I go" will be the theme song of the off season, which should provide us with even more drama than the regular season. It's time to dust off that old plaque that says, "it ain't easy being a Billiken fan." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 For the record, larry72 has been pushing this point of malcontents to me for sometime now. I have fought the good fight and resisted. After last night, I am about to embrace the horror. Something is just not right. I don't know where to rank this in all-time worsts. Most of those are "basketball related" worsts and not court stuff ---- McGlother Irvin walking off the court in the middle of a game, a player punching the head coach (Ekker) out in a locker room after a win no less, losing to McKendree College, about 20k folks at the Mizzou/Lousiville and SLU/Tulane doubleheader at the Checkerdome with over 3/4 of the crowd leaving before SLU ever tipped off after Mizzou won, playing regular season games at West Pine, curtain across the end zone seat to shrink the Checkerdome some, the 20 point game and on and on it could go. You young'uns will need to develop your pain tolerance if this keeps up. Going to be a hellova ride. Can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I still don't know what the end goal is of our offense. If it's to make pass after pass and then panic to beat the shot clock,we have that down and lead the nation. The screening is abysmal ---- from guys not using the picks correctly to the picker taking off before the screen is used. I get the feeling half the picks we set are "fake" picks. And that too is disturbing if I can't tell. And every team we play leaves our low bigs to challenge Ash and Milik's drives because by now, they know nothing bad will happen to them as our guys can't rebound on the offensive end to save their souls. Only Reggie can and he's 50/50 as to whether he secures the ball or dribbles off his foot or loses it through his hands. It's not that complicated, Taj. Jim Crews has been teaching kids how to dribble, pass, cut and screen all of his coaching career. He comes from the Bobby Knight school of offense. It's these principles that made it possible for Evansville to score over 80 points a game on a regular basis. It's these principles that made them a regular in the postseason over a 7 year period. But he also had a pool of players to draw from 25 years ago that had a foundation in team offense. Have you seen a high school game featuring D-1 recruits lately? It's basically a bunch of kids going one-one-one or trying to out-athlete each other. If Crews wants to play old school basketball, he better recruit players who have an old school understanding of the game. And who can shoot the hell out of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukeebill Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 For the record, larry72 has been pushing this point of malcontents to me for sometime now. I have fought the good fight and resisted. After last night, I am about to embrace the horror. Something is just not right. I don't know where to rank this in all-time worsts. Most of those are "basketball related" worsts and not court stuff ---- McGlother Irvin walking off the court in the middle of a game, a player punching the head coach (Ekker) out in a locker room after a win no less, losing to McKendree College, about 20k folks at the Mizzou/Lousiville and SLU/Tulane doubleheader at the Checkerdome with over 3/4 of the crowd leaving before SLU ever tipped off after Mizzou won, playing regular season games at West Pine, curtain across the end zone seat to shrink the Checkerdome some, the 20 point game and on and on it could go. You young'uns will need to develop your pain tolerance if this keeps up. Going to be a hellova ride. Can't wait. Please tell me more about those first two worsts you mention. Those sound fascinating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Please tell me more about those first two worsts you mention. Those sound fascinatingI have to correct Taj's memory slightly. Wallace Robinson punched out Ekker in a hotel room not the locker room. I know it's a nitpick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Robinson's punch out was in Ekker's last year right after a 62 to 59 win AT Cincinnati. Bay Area has those details as retold by Dick Missavage, a senior on that team,and still a good friend of BAB. Ekker was also boffing a SLU cheerleader at the time -- I think she is still Mrs. Ekker today. Irvin was on Grawer's last team with other malcontents like Melvin "The Big Chill" Robinson. Grawer was obviously burnt out and the innmates were running the asylum. Robinson quit the team seven games in 91-92 season that ended Grawer's term of ten years with bookend 5 and 23 records on his SLU career. Robinson tried to transfer to Arizona State, failed to make it there, and caught some coffee around the NBA for a year or so. Melvin majored in getting stoned. Grawer's team lost 14 out of the remaining 15 games and it was in one of those home losses Irvin just decided he had enough and left the court while I believe the action was still going on. Or maybe it was at a timeout. I was gone from St. Louis at the time so I did not see it in person. And if that wasn't enough, another decent player, Carlos Skinner, averaging over 10 rpg that same year, took flight 13 games into the season. I think he finished at Western Kentucky or some other Ohio Valley school as I recall. And that team had Claggett, Highmark and Winfield on it as freshmen. Since Grawer left, the bottom line bad level of this team has been the nine win season put up by Soderberg in 2004-05. Most of you guy shave no clue on that kind of suffering. And I hope you never do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Robinson's punch out was in Ekker's last year right after a 62 to 59 win AT Cincinnati. Bay Area has those details as retold by Dick Missavage, a senior on that team,and still a good friend of BAB. Ekker was also boffing a SLU cheerleader at the time -- I think she is still Mrs. Ekker today. Irvin was on Grawer's last team with other malcontents like Melvin "The Big Chill" Robinson. Grawer was obviously burnt out and the innmates were running the asylum. Robinson quit the team seven games in 91-92 season that ended Grawer's term of ten years with bookend 5 and 23 records on his SLU career. Robinson tried to transfer to Arizona State, failed to make it there, and caught some coffee around the NBA for a year or so. Melvin majored in getting stoned. Grawer's team lost 14 out of the remaining 15 games and it was in one of those home losses Irvin just decided he had enough and left the court while I believe the action was still going on. Or maybe it was at a timeout. I was gone from St. Louis at the time so I did not see it in person. And if that wasn't enough, another decent player, Carlos Skinner, averaging over 10 rpg that same year, took flight 13 games into the season. I think he finished at Western Kentucky or some other Ohio Valley school as I recall. And that team had Claggett, Highmark and Winfield on it as freshmen. Since Grawer left, the bottom line bad level of this team has been the nine win season put up by Soderberg in 2004-05. Most of you guy shave no clue on that kind of suffering. And I hope you never do. Perspective is everything. Thanks for the reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 There's a difference between '04-'05. We weren't coming off 3 straight NCAA appearances. When you fall from the mountain top to the bottom of the Grand Canyon it hurts a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 There's a difference between '04-'05. We weren't coming off 3 straight NCAA appearances. When you fall from the mountain top to the bottom of the Grand Canyon it hurts a lot more. This is my biggest disappointment. Usually after a NCAA appearance you have your best recruiting.Couple that we now have probably best facilities for both playing and practice in the A10 (no more embarrassing WP Gym). We should been able to get at least a 4 star player each of the last 2 recruiting classes. I hope our run was not flushed down the toilet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUfan_42 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 This is my biggest disappointment. Usually after a NCAA appearance you have your best recruiting.Couple that we now have probably best facilities for both playing and practice in the A10 (no more embarrassing WP Gym). We should been able to get at least a 4 star player each of the last 2 recruiting classes. I hope our run was not flushed down the toilet. One would assume. Instead we got a group of guys who don't want to play defense, barely compete, and ignore our coach's advise. Hashtag dynasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlumniFan Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It seemed like most on this board were very impressed with this class of recruits including Ash. Was that in an alternate universe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It seemed like most on this board were very impressed with this class of recruits including Ash. Was that in an alternate universe? Yea, I remember back in September and October on how insulted we were with the pre-season predictions of not making top 144 or the league predictions that had us around 10 or 11 place. We were wrong and they were right. Now I probably kill for a 10th or 11th place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Robinson's punch out was in Ekker's last year right after a 62 to 59 win AT Cincinnati. Bay Area has those details as retold by Dick Missavage, a senior on that team,and still a good friend of BAB. Ekker was also boffing a SLU cheerleader at the time -- I think she is still Mrs. Ekker today. Irvin was on Grawer's last team with other malcontents like Melvin "The Big Chill" Robinson. Grawer was obviously burnt out and the innmates were running the asylum. Robinson quit the team seven games in 91-92 season that ended Grawer's term of ten years with bookend 5 and 23 records on his SLU career. Robinson tried to transfer to Arizona State, failed to make it there, and caught some coffee around the NBA for a year or so. Melvin majored in getting stoned. Grawer's team lost 14 out of the remaining 15 games and it was in one of those home losses Irvin just decided he had enough and left the court while I believe the action was still going on. Or maybe it was at a timeout. I was gone from St. Louis at the time so I did not see it in person. And if that wasn't enough, another decent player, Carlos Skinner, averaging over 10 rpg that same year, took flight 13 games into the season. I think he finished at Western Kentucky or some other Ohio Valley school as I recall. And that team had Claggett, Highmark and Winfield on it as freshmen. Since Grawer left, the bottom line bad level of this team has been the nine win season put up by Soderberg in 2004-05. Most of you guy shave no clue on that kind of suffering. And I hope you never do. The kickbox incident with Ekker on the wrong end occurred at some point during a SLU road trip to Indianapolis and after a SLU road win at Hinkle Fieldhouse over Butler in a non-conference game near New Year's in the '81-'82 season, which would later become Ekker's last. That win over Butler made SLU 5-2 at the time. However, after that incident, SLU won all of 1 game the rest of the season, a surprising road win at Cincinnati, of all places, to finish 6-21. I was at the Louisville-Mizzou/Tulane-SLU Doubleheader mentioned by Taj. A point there that largely went unnoticed elsewhere- I watched as then Mizzou Assistant Coach Rich Grawer exited the floor toward the South End Tunnel, with then SLU Coach Ron Ekker having come out of the Tunnel on his way to the court. The two shook hands. I remember thinking if I was witnessing the passing of the torch. As subsequent events unfolded, indeed that was the passing of the torch. As fate would have it, about 10 years later I was at 7'0" Melvin "Big Chill" Robinson's last game for SLU, which was at the then Toso Pavilion at Santa Clara in the non-conference part of Grawer's last season, '91-'92. Big Chill fouled out of the game at the other end from the SLU Bench, and slowly walked off the court to the SLU Bench (and thereafter into oblivion). Moral of these stories and the others mentioned in this thread: As bad as things look now, they could always be worse ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It seemed like most on this board were very impressed with this class of recruits including Ash. Was that in an alternate universe? On paper, it didn't look half bad. Ash from Nova and former NY Gatorade POY had some nice credentials. I can see now why Wright didn't try and keep him. Then you have MR and DR both coming from nationally ranked powerhouse HS teams. Granted, they weren't the 4 or 5 stars on those teams, but they had to be pretty damn solid to be starters for those schools. And, for the record, I think those two are two who have continued to play the hardest. MB was recruited by Creighton, so no slouch there either. He's just too damn skinny. Our bigs were probably the biggest head scratchers. Not many offers, but we all thought they take time to develop. Looks like only time will tell. Finally, MY was a sought after recruit w/ a big PPG average. He's talented, but is he coachable? Point being, we had reasons to believe this was not a bad class. Not a UK or Duke type, but still a solid group. And who knows they still may turn out to be. They've all had their moments, but just moments. With the exception of MY, none of the others have strung together a string of consistent solid performances. Now, I'm a believer if you have your moments that proves you're capable of playing like that night in and night out. But to do it on a consistent basis means you have to work at it, you have to listen to your coaches, and you have to stay focused on the idea that racking up Ws is the goal. Most on here can see the talent what they don't see is the disciplined approach to the game we saw under RM, even in the bad years. Who do you blame for that, the players for refusing to learn or not care enough, or the coaches for not teaching it? God forbid we have 6 mid range recruits who have 5 star egos, ie I can do it all myself. If that's the case, we're pretty much totally screwed way beyond just this year. They'll either transfer out, or continue in their selfish ways. Neither is a pleasant scenario for the future success of the program. None of us really knows what goes on behind those closed doors, in their dorms, or in their hotel rooms. It's all speculation on all our parts, but there is smoke based on the level of crap basketball we're witnessing, and where's there's smoke there's usually a fire generating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Regarding Yacoubou - Coming into the season, I really thought he'd be a great player for us, but there was one nagging thought in my head that kept saying "the odd man out at Villanova shouldn't be our best player. They're in the conference we want to be in so if he is our best player, what does it say about us?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 And there are clearly some behind the scenes issues going on with this team. And the issue might be that the players and/or coaches don't realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 If a coach doesn't have his finger on the pulse of his team then he's failing. The buck stops there. Plus, I find it difficult any coach wouldn't know if there's an attitude problem with his team and who's causing it, ie himself or players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 And there are clearly some behind the scenes issues going on with this team. And the issue might be that the players and/or coaches don't realize it. I've got some secret "news" to share: the players and the coaches realize it. I'll also comment on 3star's good comment about the "basics" supposedly being coached in high schools; they suck. Go see Chaminade, the premiere local program. it's talent only, because if you thin Jim Crews's offense is mysterious, please explain Chaminade's offense. Because there is none. I really like MY's long term potential, for example, but he clearly still believes he can pull some of that knucklehead stuff in D1; but actually, he can't -- and he is still trying to figure that out. It just has not sunk in yet, for these guys. Same with MR. The learning curve for this group, now getting almost all the significant minutes, is puzzling. I would think it would be pretty hard not to be extremely disappointed with this group right now. That GM display was a debacle, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouthBilliken Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I've got some secret "news" to share: the players and the coaches realize it. I'll also comment on 3star's good comment about the "basics" supposedly being coached in high schools; they suck. Go see Chaminade, the premiere local program. it's talent only, because if you thin Jim Crews's offense is mysterious, please explain Chaminade's offense. Because there is none. I really like MY's long term potential, for example, but he clearly still believes he can pull some of that knucklehead stuff in D1; but actually, he can't -- and he is still trying to figure that out. It just has not sunk in yet, for these guys. Same with MR. The learning curve for this group, now getting almost all the significant minutes, is puzzling. I would think it would be pretty hard not to be extremely disappointed with this group right now. That GM display was a debacle, plain and simple. What's the secret news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 -the only thing coming to my mind on how the team is better now than we were on Nov 4 is that the guards don't pick up the dribble as much -that is roughly 120 days ago and how many hours of practice? -if others see improvement I am missing please post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 -the only thing coming to my mind on how the team is better now than we were on Nov 4 is that the guards don't pick up the dribble as much -that is roughly 120 days ago and how many hours of practice? -if others see improvement I am missing please post I see regression, especially on D. 79 points to DU, 80 to GM. Both double digit losses. RM's turning in his grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 -the only thing coming to my mind on how the team is better now than we were on Nov 4 is that the guards don't pick up the dribble as much -that is roughly 120 days ago and how many hours of practice? -if others see improvement I am missing please post -I want to add DR is better offensively than when the season began, perhaps much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moytoy12 Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 -I want to add DR is better offensively than when the season began, perhaps much better MR, RA, DR and MC look improved from the players they were at the start of the season. MY is going to be a really good player. I hope it's as a Billiken. AG, BJ, and MB look to be about the same as the beginning of the year, but I do see talent there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.