JMM28 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Ace, I know its been a rough year for you with the price of aluminum scrap dropping, but your post is on point. You said what I was trying to say, just better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikensBlog Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I totally agree with this post. I also believe there are enough pieces to plug in around these 3. I know I am beating a dead horse but Crews has to find a rotation and stick with it. I've heard that at least 4 players went to Crews after last season and said they'd rather risk fighting for a spot and riding the bench than go through this big rotation again this coming season. I have also been told by someone very close to the program that there was some definite disagreement between the staff and Crews on how to use the personnel last year (regarding size of rotation). I think we all expected everyone to get playing time in the Bahamas, but hopefully that was used to cut down the rotation. Finally, someone with a close relationship to a player told me "It sucks playing for a losing team. It's made worse when you can have a great game one game and then get a handful of minutes the next without any sort of explanation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My problem with last year's rotation wasn't even so much that we played so many guys as it was that from game to game (or even half to half), the minutes would change dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I guess one reason I see things so differently than many on this board is because I look at Bartley and see the potential for a player we have rarely had in our program -- a tall guard with a tight handle who can pass it and really, really shoot it. Bartley is miles away from being a complete player, but the good news is that defense is the most teachable part of the game, and he will undoubtedly get a lot stronger over his career. As an underweight guard who had never competed at this level, I thought he showed a lot of promise. In addition, we all witnessed Roby's progression over last season, and before Malik got tired legs, he showed dominance in a few early conference games. I will stand by my position that these 3 recruits are at a whole different level than almost every Romar recruit and every Soderberg recruit outside of Lisch and Liddell. People knock Crews, but they forget the many years we routinely brought in players like Eric Jones, Ross Varner, Sekue, the kid from Edwardsville, etc. I agree that Crews game-day coaching and preparation is still a big question mark, but I don't believe the talent is way down as many are suggesting. We seem to be on the same page. I really like those 3 and I like you seem to see more in Bartley than some. I also see potential in AG and wouldn't want to write off Jolly or Reynolds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Anybody who saw DE and Jett as freshmen knew they were not going to be role players. A lot of posters were not high on Jett as a Frosh. Terrible shooter and a ton of turnovers. Seemed to try and force the ball far too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 My problem with last year's rotation wasn't even so much that we played so many guys as it was that from game to game (or even half to half), the minutes would change dramatically. +1 and I'm willing to give JC the benefit of the doubt but I expect it will change this year. If not, I think we'll struggle again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 -Ace, I agree that JCrews did a very good job in keeping things together during a difficult time during Rick's illness and death, not diminishing what he and the staff did but the players get part of the credit, too -not sure why debating Cheryl Levick at this point makes sense -BBlog's comments on the rotation echo what was said on here about having a good half or game and then disappearing but the most upsetting part to me is the line about getting no explanation on playing time, 13 sums this nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 +1 and I'm willing to give JC the benefit of the doubt but I expect it will change this year. If not, I think we'll struggle again Agree. I also think team attitude will suffer if we are both losing and have an unknown rotation. And that will only lead to more losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikensBlog Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 -Ace, I agree that JCrews did a very good job in keeping things together during a difficult time during Rick's illness and death, not diminishing what he and the staff did but the players get part of the credit, too -not sure why debating Cheryl Levick at this point makes sense -BBlog's comments on the rotation echo what was said on here about having a good half or game and then disappearing but the most upsetting part to me is the line about getting no explanation on playing time, 13 sums this nicely I think the explanation part is interesting. Is that just a pissed off player saying he didn't get an explanation or is that actually the case? I'm going to guess it's a little bit of both. If a player has a big first half, I can't understand why he wouldn't get to play much in the 2nd. Or if a player has a big game, I can't understand why he'd go to single digit minutes the next game even if he didn't have a great practice in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I've heard that at least 4 players went to Crews after last season and said they'd rather risk fighting for a spot and riding the bench than go through this big rotation again this coming season. I have also been told by someone very close to the program that there was some definite disagreement between the staff and Crews on how to use the personnel last year (regarding size of rotation). I think we all expected everyone to get playing time in the Bahamas, but hopefully that was used to cut down the rotation. Finally, someone with a close relationship to a player told me "It sucks playing for a losing team. It's made worse when you can have a great game one game and then get a handful of minutes the next without any sort of explanation." BBlog. Speaking of rotations sizes, etc, what have you now heard regarding Crew's rotation and minutes per game employed during the three (3) games in the Bahamas? As we know, Crews extensively played our walk-on PG and Roby while giving relatively few minutes to Ash. What have you or anyone else heard? Should we take away anything from the recent games in the Bahamas ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikensBlog Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 BBlog. Speaking of rotations sizes, etc, what have you now heard regarding Crew's rotation and minutes per game employed during the three (3) games in the Bahamas? As we know, Crews extensively played our walk-on PG and Roby while giving relatively few minutes to Ash. What have you or anyone else heard? Should we take away anything from the recent games in the Bahamas ? I haven't almost no insight to this and not sure if I will. One person who was in the Bahamas said they thought Ash was in the doghouse. But I wouldn't read too much into the rotation in the Bahamas. I am hoping to get more insight into everything that happened this summer by the end of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have no doubt a rotation of 8 or 9 will be established this year. Crews isn't afraid of cutting the rotation down. Remember this is the guy who 2 years ago had an 8 man rotation and only played 6,7 & 8 sparingly. Last year was a lost year and he wanted to see who would step forward and the majority of the team couldn't. If I'm wrong and he isn't able to settle on a manageable rotation, it will be a long year and probably his last. I hope it's not. I think he can coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 FWIW (don't think it's worth much), here is the number of players on Crews' teams who averaged at least 12 mpg since 1996-97 (furthest back I could find without putting too much effort into it). Evansville: 1996-97: 8 1997-98: 9 1998-99: 8 1999-2000: 8 2000-01: 9 2001-02: 12 Army: 2002-03: 9 2003-04: 12 2004-05: 11 2005-06: 8 2006-07: 10 2007-08: 10 2008-09: 8 SLU: 2012-13: 10 2013-14: 7 2014-15: 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Good stuff, 13. Any way you can edit that to include the final record each season? That's very relevant to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Good stuff, 13. Any way you can edit that to include the final record each season? That's very relevant to the discussion. -to find relevance in 13's info wouldn't we need to know the make up of the roster by class and compare to our roster last season and for the upcoming? -also, playing time in prior seasons for those on the roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 -to find relevance in 13's info wouldn't we need to know the make up of the roster by class and compare to our roster last season and for the upcoming? -also, playing time in prior seasons for those on the roster? What it does say though is that he isn't against playing 10 or more players as he's done it quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Who played more minutes and who handled the ball more? So you don't know how tov% is calculated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 What it does say though is that he isn't against playing 10 or more players as he's done it quite often. This is all I was really looking for. Who knows the what the situation was for each team. All I really saw is that he isn't afraid to go with a big rotation if no one is standing out or if he feels it necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zink Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 This is all I was really looking for. Who knows the what the situation was for each team. All I really saw is that he isn't afraid to go with a big rotation if no one is standing out or if he feels it necessary.Most of those seasons with a large rotation were at Army though. Pretty different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 There comes a time when adding weight ceases to be an advantage in basketball. The key is to be strong enough to compete, not for all your guards to be built like Ash. Our 6'4 165lb point guard wasn't strong enough to compete last year. Neither was our 6'2 170lb combo guard who does most of his scoring going to the basket. Neither was our 6'10 210lb center. Last I checked, most point guards in our league, even after 4 years of weight training, are not over 190lb and most 5 men don't weigh over 235lb. We'll at least be big enough to compete. It sounds like you're saying we'll average a little over 60ppg this season. How about we put the over/under at 63? If the Bills average over 63, you'll have to use a sig line of my choosing in all your offseason posts in 2016. If they average under 63, I have to use your preferred sig line in my offseason posts. Bet? While I agree that there are diminising returns over time, I don't think it's an advantage for our guys to have a steeper curve in the first place when it comes to strength and conditioning. The rebounding numbers last season seem to bear that out. We're thin, and starting behind everyone else in this department is not an advantage just because we'll see more obvious results. I'd take the under on 63 PPG, but I'm not going to bet. I'm not a gambler and I don't like the signature lines here. I don't use one and ignore everyone else's so I can scroll through and read posts on a cleaner page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 So you don't know how tov% is calculated. It is more likely a case where RA didn't have a large enough sample size of time with the ball to make the comparison statistically significant. Do you think RA could have plaid the bulk of the minutes at point against VCU and had 7 assists and only 2 turnovers like Bartley did? You are harping on the negative, but why don't you get excited that as a freshmen point guard MB had a combined 9 assists (against only 3 turnovers), 7 rebounds, and 17 points in 2 games against VCU, a top 25 team noted fore its defensive pressure at the guard position? Did everyone forget this? Why is everyone demanding another point guard when we have a kid who has proven he can do this against top-flight competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Talk about small sample sizes. You want to talk about two games and want to ignore what happened in the other 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I actually like Bartley, but I think his future is as more of a two than as a guy running your offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Bartley had the 3rd highest turnover rate of any A10 player that played at least 40% of available minutes. You can choose any stat you want to prove a point for or against a player. I think Bartley has a lot potential, but I agree with Brian. More of a two than your point guard. Bartley was also in my opinion, the worst defender on the team last year (I know others have agreed with me). He will get better but he just missed an entire summer of workouts including 10 days of team practices so he will have a lot of catching up to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Talk about small sample sizes. You want to talk about two games and want to ignore what happened in the other 30. I am not saying those were representative of his season, but rather representative of his capabilities against top competition. If he can perform in the big games against the top teams, then he has real upside. From my eye test, he is an ideal point guard in today's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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