kshoe Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 If we had woken up this morning and found out that: 1) Torres had given SLU an oral 2) Torres had received a qualifying ACT score 3) Torres chose us over SIU and others What would the board reaction have been? I would have been ecstatic and hoped that it was the start of a strong 08 recruiting class. I suspect the large majority of the board would have reacted similarly. I'm curious as to what the reaction would have been from those that have been defending Brad saying "he won't qualify" or "he's not that good" or "its too early" etc. Would these same people, who by and large are card-carrying members of the Kool-aid crew, be criticizing the news? I seriously doubt it. So, if it is the case that these people will support Brad no matter what his decisions when it comes to recruits I have to ask what breeds such confidence? I mean, on the one hand you have a coach/program that has continually allowed the Valley to recruit local players that aren't "good enough" for SLU only for those same Valley teams to continually dance in March (and more often then not beat us head to head). On the other hand, you have a program like SIU that has been to 6 straight NCAA tourney's using players we didn't want and until the last couple years in a "weaker" conference. Who should we trust when it comes to player evaluation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Brad has unfortunately fallen way behind. He couldn't give attention to Roundtree cuz he is still recruiting for several players in 07. Meanwhile SIUC has 2 verbals for 08. We don't have 1 for 07. People aren't going to change their minds until after the fact. If Brad doesn't land Suggs and company in 08 and get Tommie and Kevin in the tourney he is gone. If he can pull off a Suggs coup and wins with Liddell and Lisch he stays. You just hate to see a very talented kid who wanted to come to SLU not get an offer. We can talk all we want about why a kid would want to go to SIUC but kids are going there and not going to SLU. Carbondale has recruiting momentum now, they are going to steal more kids from the area no doubt. I want Brad to succeed but I am not going to sugarcoat anything. Roundtree's signing will have a big effect on area recruiting and it can only hurt SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 It hurts me the most because SLU was his top choice. Its more than bad recruiting when you lose a kid simply because you dont offer. Thats negligence. You didnt even have to sell him on the program, he was sold. He wanted to get in the walk through the door, but Brad never unlocked. Mr. Lowery did and he has more recruiting clout than Brad, so that makes a huge statement about what he thinks of Roundtree's abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I think you already know that answer. There would have been a ton of celebratory "I told you so" and "I told you to give Brad a chance" kind of posts. A lot of these comments would have come from the same posters who are now knocking Torres or questioning whether there was space for him. Personally, I am with you in the "it makes me sick" crowd when I hear that SLU was the kid's first choice, he instead committed to a program currently in the top 20, and our credentialled St. Louis high school basketball exeperts say he would have been a nice fit for SLU. I have tried to stay off Brad's case of late, but this one raises some BIG questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Why should Brad go after Torres Roundtree when there's a huge junior class coming thru stl? We don't want guys getting offered by SIU and other "mid majors". The juniors and guys we're after are the top tier guys - the guys getting offered by KU, UNC, etc (Bradenburg, Suggs). Those are the guys we want. Brad should only offer 4 and 5 star ranked players. Obviously he as a great rapport with this talent level and it's worked so well for him. I'm confident we'll get the 5 guys we want who are all studs so why bother making an offer to that 6th stud. It's all good until we don't get those studs on our top tier list. SLU then waits to offer the 2nd tier guys only after our 1st tier declines us. What happens next, we lose that 2nd tier player to the mid-major programs. The 2nd tier then dominates in a mid major league and SLU is left with a hole. Torres Roundtree is the type of guy you build a program with. Get 5 players of his caliber with a good coach and we'd be more then all right. Wake up, we will not get the dominate players. Roundtree is a good example of what this program needs...a basketball player making a commitment to our program. It's been almost a year since we've had that. CAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTIME Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You're making a lot of sense, simply for the fact that the other schools in the A10 aren't landing guys recruited by the big boys either. They are getting 2nd tier guys as well and playing with those. This is one of the deepest classes in St. Louis in a long time. In most years Roundtree is not a 2nd tier player and might not be on now, especially since he is commit at a top 25 school. I dont understand why you cant offer the big boys and guys like Torres Roundtree. Any argument you can make for not offering Torres (sans grades) you can make for not offering his teammate Femi John, another 2nd tier talent according to this board. They're just excuses, he should've been offered. If a player in your area is good enough to play for you and wants to come, you offer him, no ifs ands or buts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 David, if Kevin and Tommie can't carry us to the Dance next season with whatever class Brad is able to piece together in the spring, a "nice fit" who may be short on core credits isn't going to save his job. Only Suggs or perhaps Marcus Denmon can do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I mean this as a serious question for those who may be more knowledgeable about each of their games. I only saw them play once, but I certainly came away more impressed with Roundtree. I just checked out their stats and Torres is leading in scoring, rebounding, assists, ft%, fg%, 3pt fg%, assists, and steals. Is there any stat I missed? I do remember Femi having a quick first step and being strong off the dribble, but I remember Torres seemed to play a little more above the rim. Again, this is all based on one game so I am sure it is not a complete picture of what each player is capable of. I do not mean this as a slam on Femi, but I wonder what Brad's reasoning might be in choosing to offer Femi and not Torres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Right now Roundtree is a better player but John has a 3.8 GPA. I'm guessing that may have a lot to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 >Right now Roundtree is a better player but John has a 3.8 >GPA. I'm guessing that may have a lot to do with it. Who cares? SLU's best player wasn't qualified when he signed, let alone was offered, that didn't stop them from offering when everyone else backed away. How did that turn out again: This Roundtree kid is only a junior, he had time to qualify and did. Another ball dropped.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 To the Kool Aid club, please peruse the SIU and Mo State rosters. Pretty much all area kids. I don't care if they're 3rd tier, who will be picking up NCAA goodie bags this year, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The MVC schools have been eating our lunch for years now. It irks me to hear of a talented local kid who has SLU as his FIRST CHOICE (how many players can we say that about?) and doesn't even get an offer. I look forward to hearing the excuses after Roundtree drops 20 points on us year after year and SIUC extends its string of NCAA appearances, while we're standing here with our (expletive) in our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 >To the Kool Aid club, please peruse the SIU and Mo State >rosters. Pretty much all area kids. I don't care if they're >3rd tier, who will be picking up NCAA goodie bags this year, The kool aid crew has lost credibility a while ago. Hell, Roy still can't even bring himself to admit we missed on Ahearn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry the Legend Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Well said Box and Won, well said. I feel the same way about our lack of local recruiting and really don't have an answer. I guess the only answer I have right now is that these kids are signing with local schools that actually show interest in them right away and are winning. SLU sits around to see if these kids can improve their grades and improve their character. Someone earlier mentioned the fact that we did recruit a kid that has some grade issues. Well, that is working out right now. SLU is not showing interest (lack of committments) in these local kids and while SLU is winning, they are not making it to any post season tourneys. Why would a kid sign with SLU when he can go to a school that has had a nice run at post season tourneys and they expect that trend to continue? I feel like a Cubs fans right now.... wait til next year. How long do we have to keep stating this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenexpress Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 "Why should Brad go after Torres Roundtree when there's a huge junior class coming thru stl? We don't want guys getting offered by SIU and other "mid majors". The juniors and guys we're after are the top tier guys - the guys getting offered by KU, UNC, etc (Bradenburg, Suggs). Those are the guys we want. Brad should only offer 4 and 5 star ranked players. Obviously he as a great rapport with this talent level and it's worked so well for him. I'm confident we'll get the 5 guys we want who are all studs so why bother making an offer to that 6th stud." You guys are killing me! Like the A10 is NOT mid major (and a low mid major at that)? And just why do you think that SLU can compete with the KU's and UNC's of the world? This delusional viewpoint just adds to your inability to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 If your wife slept with your best friend, would you call her a *****? Seriously, Kshoe what do you expect us to say? Should we jump up and down and rejoice that Lowery signed the kid? Should we all throw a party at Torres house congratulating him? As I said yesterday, every kid that leaves STL...regardless of the player/skill...is gonna be Brad's fault. We have Mr. Credibility in Vtime telling us we were his first choice and everybody is taking his word on it. Nobody trusts the kid 364 days a year, but now VTime is the authority. How many times has Nate called him out for being wrong? To your point, yes our reaction would have been different. But that is an obvious answer to a stupid question. And i'm sure that if we won last night, this post would never have occurred. You're lack of participation in this board of the past 2 week (when we win) has been noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 >"Why should Brad go after Torres Roundtree when there's a >huge junior class coming thru stl? We don't want guys >getting offered by SIU and other "mid majors". The juniors >and guys we're after are the top tier guys - the guys >getting offered by KU, UNC, etc (Bradenburg, Suggs). Those >are the guys we want. Brad should only offer 4 and 5 star >ranked players. Obviously he as a great rapport with this >talent level and it's worked so well for him. I'm confident >we'll get the 5 guys we want who are all studs so why bother >making an offer to that 6th stud." > >You guys are killing me! Like the A10 is NOT mid major (and >a low mid major at that)? And just why do you think that >SLU can compete with the KU's and UNC's of the world? This >delusional viewpoint just adds to your inability to be >successful. Why do you use "Billiken" in your name when you are clearly not a SLU fan? Why don't you have the balls to have your handle reflect what school allegiance you have? Coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You probably missed it, but Nate verified that the kid wanted to come to SLU first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUSER Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Actually Nashville, it was Nate who said. Do you believe Nate? I do. I just got off the phone with Torres. He told me SLU was his first choice, but Soderberg didn't recruit him hard enough. He said he always wanted to go to SLU. - Nate Nashville, are you happy with the way things are going with this basketball program? You will be called a liar if you are content with it or you are happy with being AVERAGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I missed the Nate posting...my bad. Yes, I trust Nate. He seems to be a journalist who does his homework. However, I also find that statement to be sketchy at best. Obviously we weren't his first choice. If we were, he wouldn't have made an oral commitment to SIU in the middle of February. If he wanted to come here, he would have held out for an offer as the SIU one isn't going anywhere. And please don't give me this kool-aid crap. Nowhere have I made an excuse for this. All I've said is we are recruiting his teamates, so we obviously knew about Torres. There's obviously a reason why he didn't offer and nobody knows what it is. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 As always and has been said numerous times - a coach lives or dies by his recruiting. Brad has not done a great job at this so he will either die or live by what happens this spring and fall. I am sorry to loose a local player that some think could have helped us especially if he wanted to come to SLU but does not mean that we won't get other good players either. Although I agree that one in the hand is worth two in the bush and Brad sorely needs some signings. As I said, he will be back next year due to money but after that he will be gone if he is still floundering around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Not to rain on your parade '72, but you may want to look at our roster one of these days. We have more area kids than your boys down in Carbondale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry the Legend Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Express, If you are referring to the post that CAG made, he was making a statement that the local kids that are being recruited by big time schools will not come to SLU and SLU needs to go after the second and third tier players. SLU needs to make a committment to the local kids that are not even being looked at by the UNC's, KU's and Duke's of this world. To jump to conclusions like that tells me you are foolish and not following these threads or SLU basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 "Someone earlier mentioned the fact that we did recruit a kid that has some grade issues. Well, that is working out right now." It's fine to roll the dice on a kid with eligibility issues, if you can afford to wait while they're at prep school or if you have the depth to absorb the loss if the gamble doesn't pay off. Once you start falling behind as a freshman/sophomore it's very hard to meet the core course requirements and get eligible for D-1 out of high school. Tommie wasn't eligible and we had to wait a year while he prepped. SIU rolled the dice on Josh Tabb, he committed and when he he had to prep he chose Tennessee instead. Illinois State got a commitment from Justin Dentmon and when he went to prep school he chose Washington. Recently the NCAA has made core requirements for initial eligiblity even more stringent than when those players graduated. We may be willing to wait until 2009 if Torres has to go to prep school but Brad doesn't have that kind of time. He needs to either land two impact jucos in the spring or an impact freshman class in that will definitely arrive in 2008 or HE won't be here in 2008, never mind 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Was it not obvious that I was being sarcastic. Try reading the rest of my post. CAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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