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VCU joining in 2013 - CBSSPORTS reports


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Ace, at the end of the day this is the key point and what I was really trying to say. In some ways I don't care if the Big East implodes now and am fine with the status quo. In fact, if you add in the possibility of an implosion on SLU somehow being on the outs of a new league (its not a 0% chance we'd get screwed) I'd prefer just to keep things the way they are.

I will second that. For SLU, the league is its best possible fit now. Even the geography issue is better with Butler joining.

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Shaka will stay with VCU. The A-10 will definitely be a better conference in 2013.

My concern: Will Majerus actually still be the coach here in 2013?

funny you mention it. I was at the Young Alumni Happy Hour with Fr. Biondi last night. We were discussing the men's basketball season among other things, and he was very proud and happy of the season they had this year. His only worry for next year is the health of RickMa - I didn't pry, but maybe he knows something we don't? Just speculation...

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-sorry if this has been addressed, do the bball only beast schools get any fball money? i wouldn't think they do

-second beast question, are there then separate tv deals for beast fball and bball? or do they have it stipulated in one contract how much is being paid for each sport?

-i ask as if marq, dep, gtwn are getting fball money the chances of them bolting for somewhere else seem slim to me, but again i can't see the fball schools sharing those dollars with non fball schools

-if they don't get fball money and the luster of beast bball diminishes, the next bball tv contract might not be what they are used to and that could cause some soul searching, not sure when this would be

-hard for me to imagine a big monday game from houston or orlando, but i guess that is in the cards for sometime down the road

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-sorry if this has been addressed, do the bball only beast schools get any fball money? i wouldn't think they do -second beast question, are there then separate tv deals for beast fball and bball? or do they have it stipulated in one contract how much is being paid for each sport? -i ask as if marq, dep, gtwn are getting fball money the chances of them bolting for somewhere else seem slim to me, but again i can't see the fball schools sharing those dollars with non fball schools -if they don't get fball money and the luster of beast bball diminishes, the next bball tv contract might not be what they are used to and that could cause some soul searching, not sure when this would be -hard for me to imagine a big monday game from houston or orlando, but i guess that is in the cards for sometime down the road

i am 99.9999% sure that the basketball only schools do not share in BCS Big East Football money, however, what torques the football schools is the belief that their is goodwill created by the grandness of being a BCS football conference that enhances the rest of the big east stuff, i.e. because of the football schools the basketball schools ultimately receive more money from their efforts. i dont know how one would prove or disprove, but i also see where the rub starts.

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funny you mention it. I was at the Young Alumni Happy Hour with Fr. Biondi last night. We were discussing the men's basketball season among other things, and he was very proud and happy of the season they had this year. His only worry for next year is the health of RickMa - I didn't pry, but maybe he knows something we don't? Just speculation...

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Butler? VCU? (yawn)

Most mid major programs are as good as their coach, contingent upon the good coach being there 6 yrs or more, give or take.

So VCU & Butler, fine, everybody is excited, but will they be good when their coaches get their dream job and leave?

Most teams like that come and go (Hobbs). Look at SIUC, Drake, in the A-10, RI, GW, etc. They had good runs, now look at them.

There are exceptions, like Xavier and some others.

But realistically mid majors that have a good streak with a top notch coach slip when he moves on.

BCS can have a bad hire coach and recover because of their tradition, alumni network, and big $$$$. So, for example, UCLA had some lean years but still could get Jabbar on the phone calling recruits.

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I guess I've just reached a point of hearing about the Big East break-up for so long that I'm tired of it. Not to mention, its seemed inevitable forever yet it still hasn't happened so it has to raise questions about whether it will ever happen.

Basically, I'm really happy with where the A-10 is now and SLU's place within it and would like to see how well this conference can compete with the Big East's of the world now that they have added those crap basketball programs while losing Syracuse and Pitt.

Kshoe, you didn't get my meaning about the Beast BB only schools looking for a place to land. If they lose CT, ND, Rutgers, UL, UC what's left? MU, Nova, and GU. That's why I said they may be scrambling for a place to land. And where would that be w/ the A10 having added Butler and VCU?

I really like the moves the A10's making. And really hope we can add Creighton if UMass leaves for the MAC or CUSA. Their loss in hoops, A10's gain. What else can the Beast BB schools do? Start a 7 team conference?

I know this is spiteful, but if this comes about MU and Depaul deserve it since they said we'd all stay together when CUSA broke up and then they reneged on SLU and Charlotte. Admit it, you'd love to see MU come crawling to the A10 begging for admittance. The A10 wouldn't refuse them, but hell, I'd like to see MU end up replacing Butler in the Horizon.

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Butler? VCU? (yawn)

Most mid major programs are as good as their coach, contingent upon the good coach being there 6 yrs or more, give or take.

So VCU & Butler, fine, everybody is excited, but will they be good when their coaches get their dream job and leave?

Most teams like that come and go (Hobbs). Look at SIUC, Drake, in the A-10, RI, GW, etc. They had good runs, now look at them.

There are exceptions, like Xavier and some others.

But realistically mid majors that have a good streak with a top notch coach slip when he moves on.

BCS can have a bad hire coach and recover because of their tradition, alumni network, and big $$$$. So, for example, UCLA had some lean years but still could get Jabbar on the phone calling recruits.

Good point. The a-10 should be going after bcs schools and quit wasting time on promising programs that have had an extended period of success that most a-10 schools (including SLU) would envy.

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Fully agree with Ace and Nark. Not only is the gap between A10 and the Beast diminishing but also the gap between the A10 and Valley is widening!!

Shoe. Agree with you except that the rumors about the Beast have been, for years, just that - rumors with no actions. At the same time, these rumors have been correct - see Conf USA as an example of an odd geographic conference of non natural rivals which broke apart because of football. Just because the Beast stayed together for years does not mean another term of harmony is again in store. The cracks are present. Teams have left. And these cracks and departures are not limited to the Beast. Additional changes can and will take place when the SEC and Big 10 take action. These conferences though are now nearly full. The final spots are at stake. ND, Texas and Florida State remain in play. Final spots May still take a few more years.

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Butler? VCU? (yawn)

Most mid major programs are as good as their coach, contingent upon the good coach being there 6 yrs or more, give or take.

So VCU & Butler, fine, everybody is excited, but will they be good when their coaches get their dream job and leave?

Most teams like that come and go (Hobbs). Look at SIUC, Drake, in the A-10, RI, GW, etc. They had good runs, now look at them.

There are exceptions, like Xavier and some others.

But realistically mid majors that have a good streak with a top notch coach slip when he moves on.

BCS can have a bad hire coach and recover because of their tradition, alumni network, and big $$$$. So, for example, UCLA had some lean years but still could get Jabbar on the phone calling recruits.

Butler has made the NCAAs 10 out of the last 16 seasons with 4 different Head Coaches.

VCU has made the NCAAs 5 out of the last 9 seasons with 3 different Head Coaches.

In the last 15 years only 6 teams outside of the Big 6 conferences have made the final four. 2 of them are VCU and Butler.

Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn Yawn

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Butler? VCU? (yawn)

Most mid major programs are as good as their coach, contingent upon the good coach being there 6 yrs or more, give or take.

So VCU & Butler, fine, everybody is excited, but will they be good when their coaches get their dream job and leave?

Most teams like that come and go (Hobbs). Look at SIUC, Drake, in the A-10, RI, GW, etc. They had good runs, now look at them.

There are exceptions, like Xavier and some others.

But realistically mid majors that have a good streak with a top notch coach slip when he moves on.

BCS can have a bad hire coach and recover because of their tradition, alumni network, and big $$$$. So, for example, UCLA had some lean years but still could get Jabbar on the phone calling recruits.

Sigh. Do you ever do any research? As Pistol has said in the past, if you are posting on the internet, obviously you have access to other things on the internet. However, since you feel like VCU and Butler are second-rate programs that are just riding hot coaches, let me go ahead and do the research for you.

Butler has definitely done well under Brad Stevens. He has been the head coach for the past five seasons. Of those five, he has two Championship Game appearances, a First round loss and a Second round loss. Last season they went to the semis of the CBI, losing to Pitt in OT. Prior to Stevens, they went to two Sweet Sixteens under Todd Lickliter in six seasons, winning 20 or more games in four of those seasons. Lickliter left to become Iowa's head coach. Prior to Lickliter, they went to the NCAA tourney in Thad Matta's single season as head coach, beating Wake Forest by 16 in the First round. Matta left to becomes Xavier's head coach, where he eventually left to become Ohio State's head coach. And prior to Matta, Butler went to 3 NCAA tourneys in 4 years under Barry Collier, who left Butler to coach Nebraska. All in all, Butler has gone to the NCAA tourney 10 of the past 16 seasons, under four different head coaches. Out of those 10 trips, they have 4 Sweet Sixteen appearances and 2 Championship Games.

Perhaps VCU is a program that has only had success under its current head coach. Well, let's see, shall we? Under Shaka, VCU has gotten 2 NCAA bids in 3 seasons. One of those led to the Final Four and last season's led to an upset over Wichita State. His first season was the CBI Championship over our Bills. Prior to Shaka, Anthony Grant led the Rams to two NCAA bids in three seasons, including one NCAA tourney win. He left VCU to coach Alabama, Prior to Grant, Jeff Capel led VCU to one NCAA tourney appearance in four seasons and left VCU to coach Oklahoma. Prior to Capel, VCU had 6 tourney appearances since becoming a D-1 program in the '70's, including 5 appearances in 6 seasons under JD Barnett.

In its existence, SLU is 4-8 in the NCAA tourney and has appeared a total of 7 times. Butler has appeared 11 times (10 in the last 16 seasons under 4 different coaches) and has a record of 18-11. VCU, which has only been a D-1 program since 1973, has 11 NCAA appearances (5 in the last 9 seasons under 3 different coaches) and a record of 11-11. Also, VCU and Butler have a combined 3 Final Four appearances to SLU's zero. So, perhaps, we should just shut the fuok up when it comes to talking smack about these programs when they are coming to our conference, because both programs have shown a bigger committment, for a longer time, to winning basketball than SLU has, bar none!

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Good point. The a-10 should be going after bcs schools and quit wasting time on promising programs that have had an extended period of success that most a-10 schools (including SLU) would envy.

Remember, this is a guy who has also advocated over the years for SLU to go to the MVC instead of staying in the A-10. However, he is now poo-pooing the addition of recent Final Four teams like VCU and Butler to the conference, teams with sustained success over multiple coaching regimes. I think some people feel like they always have to be the turd in the punch bowl. Why do they feel that way? Ummmmm....Perhaps it is because of....

.

.

.

.

REALITY.

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Remember, this is a guy who has also advocated over the years for SLU to go to the MVC instead of staying in the A-10. However, he is now poo-pooing the addition of recent Final Four teams like VCU and Butler to the conference, teams with sustained success over multiple coaching regimes. I think some people feel like they always have to be the turd in the punch bowl. Why do they feel that way? Ummmmm....Perhaps it is because of....

.

.

.

.

REALITY.

-these team are not duke therefore it would seem mb doesn't care or know about them

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From the extreme political rants, to the strange analysis of the XU/UC brawl and now his take on the A-10... I'm starting to think NB73 is not for real. He can't be serious. People like this don't exist, do they? At least I hope not. :o

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SLU is 4-8 in the NCAA tourney and has appeared a total of 7 times.

Bizzle, which year did we lose 2 games in the Tournament? Check your FACTS, you commie.

REALITY.

I'm with MB73, yawning my ass off. Why is the A10 settling for MID MAJORS when we should be going after Dook and Seeracuse, places where they have long-term proven winners, not just flashes in the pan.

REALITY.

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-but mom knows, we need to get her to post as another rational voice

My mom told me SLU was going to win it all in 2013 so I tried to put $20 on them this weekend at the Venetian sports book. They didn't have the Tournament winners available for betting yet, though.

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Bizzle, which year did we lose 2 games in the Tournament? Check your FACTS, you commie. REALITY. I'm with MB73, yawning my ass off. Why is the A10 settling for MID MAJORS when we should be going after Dook and Seeracuse, places where they have long-term proven winners, not just flashes in the pan. REALITY.

still small time expectations. the only answer is joining the mvc. that is bigtime.

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Wow, what a bunch of twisted nonsense. The usual suspects throw a group hissy fit.

Sure, Butler and VCU got into the NCAA's. They were in inferior conferences, 14th and 15th RPI this year.

So I do not go by NCAA appearances with those type of teams. Nice, but not impressive.

Sure, they both have had decent programs.

I am merely pointing out that the their recent impressive successes with Butler's two time Championship Game appearances and VCU's run in 2011 are highly unlikely to continue, and that when they join the A-10 and when their current coaches leave, they will likely slip to mediocrity.

Mark my words, when those two glamor coaches leave, 2 yrs later or so they will struggle, maybe even GW, RI type collapses.

Again, try to use facts, not just attack. So many mid majors... and these teams are not mid majors, they are in minor conferences... flop after coaching changes. Bizzleboy, make a list while you do your 24/7 research.

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mb, did you even read bizzle's post #62? he detailed that both Butler and VCU have been far more successful than slu under all the previous coaches in the last couple of decades. this isnt just a shaka smart / brad stevens run. it has been going on for a number of coaches at both schools. there is no doubt that both schools have demonstrated the committment to immediately be an upper tier men's basketball program in the A-10 and will immediately upgrade our overall national perception.

what other programs that are not already old school BCS national programs would make you happier? please tell us, if you had your wish with no limitations other than the obvious it wont be a current BCS school, on replacing charlotte and temple in our conference, who would you select? maybe if we know your expectations of what a real replacement would be, we can empathize with your reasoning?

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Wow, what a bunch of twisted nonsense. The usual suspects throw a group hissy fit.

Sure, Butler and VCU got into the NCAA's. They were in inferior conferences, 14th and 15th RPI this year.

So I do not go by NCAA appearances with those type of teams. Nice, but not impressive.

Sure, they both have had decent programs.

I am merely pointing out that the their recent impressive successes with Butler's two time Championship Game appearances and VCU's run in 2011 are highly unlikely to continue, and that when they join the A-10 and when their current coaches leave, they will likely slip to mediocrity.

Mark my words, when those two glamor coaches leave, 2 yrs later or so they will struggle, maybe even GW, RI type collapses.

Again, try to use facts, not just attack. So many mid majors... and these teams are not mid majors, they are in minor conferences... flop after coaching changes. Bizzleboy, make a list while you do your 24/7 research.

Was there a single fact in your post other than the RPI of the CAA and Horizon leagues last year?

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mb, did you even read bizzle's post #62? he detailed that both Butler and VCU have been far more successful than slu under all the previous coaches in the last couple of decades. this isnt just a shaka smart / brad stevens run. it has been going on for a number of coaches at both schools. there is no doubt that both schools have demonstrated the committment to immediately be an upper tier men's basketball program in the A-10 and will immediately upgrade our overall national perception.

what other programs that are not already old school BCS national programs would make you happier? please tell us, if you had your wish with no limitations other than the obvious it wont be a current BCS school, on replacing charlotte and temple in our conference, who would you select? maybe if we know your expectations of what a real replacement would be, we can empathize with your reasoning?

Yes, I read his post.

Let's start with this, roy: do you equate the Horizon (# 14) and Colonial (#15) to the A-10?

And, SLU had a miserable run, no talent, under Sodie. Nice guy, good game coach, terrible recruiter.

Yes, Butler and VCU are good pick ups after losing Temple and Charlotte, but are not an upgrade. Temple by far has a deeper tradition and success. Don't just compare NCAA appearances. And Charlotte ain't that bad.

So when the dust settles and the two golden boy coaches leave, down the road, they will be middle of the pack.

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