Official Scoring Less than 20 Points Watch Thread

[BACKHANDtheRICAN]

Someone stopped the party. Harvard hit 21 at just over 8 minutes.

The good news is that this thread has been fired up a number of times this year.

The bad news is that it's really, really hard to score less than 20.

Westy jinxed it. Forever changed history.

[Pistol]

Harvard finished with 27.

[hsmith19]

To borrow a line from Barry Bonds, it's possible somebody some day will score less than 20. But if so, it's hard to imagine THAT team's record ever being broken in any scenario.

[ACE]

Several teams have flirted with breaking the record this year. I think it will happen. Also, this is one more reason to be against shortening the shot clock from 35 to 30.

The 20-point game had a lot of elements to make it happen. GW played a zone, which slowed our already slow tempo. We played good defense, which prevented them from scoring quickly. GW only scored 49 points. In a lot of ways, the Bowling Green 81-40 beat down from that season was even worse.

Just one month after we lost 49-20 to GW, we beat them 63-38... that is a 54 point turnaround.

[RUBillsFan]

Several teams have flirted with breaking the record this year. I think it will happen. Also, this is one more reason to be against shortening the shot clock from 35 to 30.

The 20-point game had a lot of elements to make it happen. GW played a zone, which slowed our already slow tempo. We played good defense, which prevented them from scoring quickly. GW only scored 49 points. In a lot of ways, the Bowling Green 81-40 beat down from that season was even worse.

Just one month after we lost 49-20 to GW, we beat them 63-38... that is a 54 point turnaround.

Yeah. That GW game had a lot of elements that contributed to the low scoring and a lot of things break the wrong way for the Billikens.

Here is the box score for anyone wanting to re-live the horror:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=280100045

-There were a total of 21 fouls called in the game (8 on SLU, 13 on GW). Granted GW's zone probably contributed to the lack of fouls and maybe in a blowout game refs swallowed their whistles a bit to get home earlier. Still I have believe that with today's freedom of motion rules more fouls would have been called. This year's season low # of fouls for an opponent is 16 (twice). To only have 8 fouls called on a team seems extraordinary. The low # of fouls on SLU prevented the clock from stopping late in the game that would have given them more opportunities to score.

-Kevin Lisch & Tommie Liddell III went a combined 2-21 (9.5%) from the floor. Two 1,500+ point scorers who rank #6 and #8 on the career scoring list combined for only 4 points on less than 10% shooting. Lisch shot around 40% from 3 for his career and went 0-5 in this game.

-Freshman (supposed to be walk-on) Paul Eckerle took 8 shots (1-8) and played 19 minutes. Senior Dwayne Polk took 1 shot (0-1) and played 21 minutes. 6 of Eckerle's shots were 3 pointers and I wonder how many of those were at the end of the shot clock. That senior Polk only took 1 shot (a 3 pointer) while a freshman took 8 in less minutes tells me that at this point he had either given up or was afraid to shoot (because of not understanding Majerus offense, having been such a black hole on offense in his previous years, or a combination).

-Polk also only grabbed 1 rebound in a game with a ton of misses (Lisch had 6 rebounds). You can probably glean a lot from the effort players put in based on rebound per minute totals. Tommie (normally an excellent rebounder) & Polk combined for 4 rebounds in 57 minutes. Lisch, Eberhardt, & Husak combined for 18 in 70 minutes.

-GW blocked 11 shots. SLU blocked 0. This goes back a bit to the low # of fouls. I wonder how much contact there was on some of those GW blocked shots.

-In the last 3 minutes of the game, the only Billikens mentioned in the play by play are Anthony Mitchell and Adam Knollmeyer. The roster was pretty much a wasteland in terms of talent outside of Lisch & Liddell. In those 3 minutes, SLU only attempted 1 field goal. SLU didn't attempt to speed the game up and chuck up some shots and/or GW continued to play tight D.

-In a game they were winning 25-7 at half, 38-10 with 10 minutes to go, and 47-16 with 4 minutes left, GW still basically played 7 guys the entire game. 4 of their starters played 30+ minutes. They played 11 guys total, but the bottom 4 had 7, 4, 2, and 1 minutes played respectively.

A lot of these games with a low scoring 1st half wind up with much more scoring the 2nd half because the winning team (understandably) lets up a bit in a blowout situation. The coach subs in some bench warmers or the starters play lax D and focus more on offense. I suppose it reflects well on Hobbs that he kept his guys focused, but shows poor sportsmanship not to play the bench warmers much.

Seems like this was a case where Hobbs wanted the record and Majerus didn't care / wanted to prove a point (or more likely didn't realize it was a record). Mix in a few guys under a new coach who had either "checked out" a bit or were afraid to shoot (Polk & Liddell), a bad shooting game from Lisch, several guys who had no business playing extensively at the D-1 level (Knollmeyer, A. Mitchell, Peyton Jacks, Eckerle) and officials who were "letting them play" and there is your recipe for a 20 point game.

[RUBillsFan]

Analyzing SLU's 20 point game made me realize that there are a few factors we should consider when looking for a game that has potential.

1. Obviously a lack of 1st half scoring a good indicator, we've already been tracking that here.

2. Lack of fouls called in a low scoring game should also be watched. Less fouls = clock running more & less FT opportunities.

3. Relatively close games should be watched more closely than complete blowouts. I'd imagine a game that is with 20-25 points has more potential to remain low scoring than a game that is 52 to 7 or something.

4. Winning teams # of players used. If the winning team goes to it's bench warmers early rather than keeping the starters out there, you've got more potential for points to pile up.

5. Presence of "black holes" (see Dwayne Polk above), guys who are eating big minutes for the losing team, but contributing next to nothing in the box score in terms of shot attempts or rebounds.

[hsmith19]

Re: #5...If it happens, I wouldn't expect it to be in a high major conference like the A-10 again. Another matchup like the Princeton-Monmouth game that had almost set the record a few years earlier seems much more likely.

[waldo027]

How can you only score 20 points in a game?

2 three pointers, 4 two pointers, and 6 free throws. Or 3 three pointers, 4 two pointers, and 3 free throws. There are a lot of different ways. In that particular game against GW we made 1 three pointer, 6 two pointers, and 5 free throws.

[hsmith19]

I feel confident saying that never again will a team score 20 points in a game where one of their players scores #1,000 of his career.

[TheChosenOne]

Analyzing SLU's 20 point game made me realize that there are a few factors we should consider when looking for a game that has potential.

1. Obviously a lack of 1st half scoring a good indicator, we've already been tracking that here.

2. Lack of fouls called in a low scoring game should also be watched. Less fouls = clock running more & less FT opportunities.

3. Relatively close games should be watched more closely than complete blowouts. I'd imagine a game that is with 20-25 points has more potential to remain low scoring than a game that is 52 to 7 or something.

4. Winning teams # of players used. If the winning team goes to it's bench warmers early rather than keeping the starters out there, you've got more potential for points to pile up.

5. Presence of "black holes" (see Dwayne Polk above), guys who are eating big minutes for the losing team, but contributing next to nothing in the box score in terms of shot attempts or rebounds.

I would add:

6. Teams playing Kentucky.

Kentucky is playing some incredible defense limiting Kansas to 40, Providence to 38, UCLA to 44, and Montana State to 28. At this point we are left primarily with their SEC conference schedule which is a really bad league. I would think teams like Missouri (they play twice), Auburn, and Mississippi State could be candidates.

[brianstl]

If it is going to happen it will be in a game involving a team much like Virginia yesterday. A team that plays outstanding defensively and plays at a super low tempo. UVA has held teams to 26 and 27 this year.

Keep on eye on the Wake Forest @ UVA game on February 14.

[RUBillsFan]

I would add:

6. Teams playing Kentucky.

Kentucky is playing some incredible defense limiting Kansas to 40, Providence to 38, UCLA to 44, and Montana State to 28. At this point we are left primarily with their SEC conference schedule which is a really bad league. I would think teams like Missouri (they play twice), Auburn, and Mississippi State could be candidates.

If it is going to happen it will be in a game involving a team much like Virginia yesterday. A team that plays outstanding defensively at plays at a super low tempo. UVA has held teams to 26 and 27 this year.

Keep on eye on the Wake Forest @ UVA game on February 14.

This is why I'm not so sure about including teams playing Kentucky. Kentucky plays at a faster pace (although looking at the #s not as fast as I would assume) and these games are going to be extreme blow outs. I can't imagine the pace being slow enough, a lack of fouls, and Kentucky keeping their D intense enough for an opponent to score less than 20.

[brianstl]

Also, keep an eye on SIU @ Wichita St. on January 14. The Shockers don't play defense like UK or UVA, but they do play it pretty well. Plus, SIU and WSU both play at an incredibly slow pace and SIU sucks offensively.

If you want to look for a game outside of Kentucky were Mizzou might be held to a super low score, Florida @ Mizzou on Febuary 4. Florida plays at a super slow tempo, is outstanding defensively, and Mizzou plays at a really slow pace itself. Mizzou is probably just competent enough offensively not to have to worry about threatening the record.

[Billiken Rich]

I don't want to be #2 to Missouri. As much fun as it would be to see them wallowing in freakish misery, being one and two makes the story about both of us.....

[RUBillsFan]

IMO San Diego State is the best team to watch that could hold an opponent below 20. They play at a slow pace, are excellent on D, and aren't great on offense. There are a few other teams in the MWC that are pretty bad and play at a slow pace that are candidates such as Nevada, Wyoming, and Air Force.

[White Pelican]

Does anyone know what the previous low was before we scored the 20? I don't remember and I can't seem to find that info anywhere. I'm curious because it might indicate how likely we are to keep that record forever.

In other words, does a low 20s score happen occasionally or did we beat the old record by 8 or 10 points? I know we managed to do it, but it seems almost impossible to play 40 minutes and only score 20.

[slufan13]

I don't see it happening in a complete blowout...if ever.

[hsmith19]

Does anyone know what the previous low was before we scored the 20? I don't remember and I can't seem to find that info anywhere. I'm curious because it might indicate how likely we are to keep that record forever.

In other words, does a low 20s score happen occasionally or did we beat the old record by 8 or 10 points? I know we managed to do it, but it seems almost impossible to play 40 minutes and only score 20.

Coastal Carolina 61, Georgia Southern 21 in 1997.

Monmouth 41, Princeton 21 in 2005.

Not exactly your all-time great defenses here.

[White Pelican]

Coastal Carolina 61, Georgia Southern 21 in 1997.

Monmouth 41, Princeton 21 in 2005.

Not exactly your all-time great defenses here.

Wow, that was fast! Thanks.

Ha, so we let TWO teams off the hook. That was nice of us.

[brianstl]

Coastal Carolina 61, Georgia Southern 21 in 1997.

Monmouth 41, Princeton 21 in 2005.

Not exactly your all-time great defenses here.

Pomeroy doesn't go back to 1997, but was able to look up the teams involved in the 2005 game. Monmouth was actually pretty good defensively ranking 55th. Monmouth played at a slow tempo and Princeton played at really slow tempo 334th in the country. Princeton was bad offensively at 248. Princeton only shot 2 free throws the whole game and went 2 for 20 from the 3.

[hsmith19]

Monmouth snuck into the play-in NCAA game that year by winning their conference tournament. They were ranked 176 out of 326 on Sports-Reference's SRS. Princeton was 233.

Coastal Carolina and Georgia Southern were both downright awful teams that year (255 and 300 out of 305 per SRS).

If it's going to happen, I would expect it to be a matchup more like these than UVA, Kentucky, et al. Maybe Wichita State against one of the bottomfeeder MVC teams.

[For-DaLove]

It's going to take a historically bad offensive game. And I don't necessarily think that's something you can project just by looking at future match ups. I don't expect it to happen any time soon (although I obviously hope it does).

[Bizziken]

It going to take a historically bad offensive game. And I don't necessarily think that's something you can project just by looking at future match ups. I don't expect it to happen any time soon (although I obviously hope it does).

Agreed...there are too many factors in play to try and predict such an awful performance. It is going to take a truly atrocious game, and virtually any team outside the elite are capable of such. But I really don't think we are going to see our record broken for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

The 20 point game is one of those things where you remember exactly where you were when it happened. I looked up the score on my phone as I was walking out of a rec center after a soccer game. I saw the 49-20 final, and thought it was either a typo or it meant 'halftime'. After getting to my car I heard Rammer on the postgame sounding shellshocked. I was in utter disbelief at our futility.

[billikenbill]

Weber State is off the hook as they've hit the magical 21 mid second half vs. Oklahoma.

[slufan13]

Weber State is off the hook as they've hit the magical 21 mid second half vs. Oklahoma.

Oklahoma did set a D1 record with a 39-0 run