OT Breaking: Butler's entire team transferring

[Dwayne's_World]

Well, over the course of the past few months it has seemed so. Elijah Brown will be the 5th scholarship player to leave since November. That program really is in absolute free fall after Stevens booked it, you gotta feel for their fan base. To clarify, I don't necessarily feel bad that their program is falling apart; rather, I feel bad for the average fan of a decent program coming off the hinges (not to be confused with fans of SPUMAC, who I feel zero sympathy for).

Now, I wonder what that tool Martin is thinking after choosing Butler over us... Berry is also stuck in a rut as of late. I think Clock really hit the nail on the head in a previous thread when he spoke about recruits that used to think of SLU as a lesser option, but are now severely paying the price for that belief. Hopefully people are starting to realize that we are not simply a backup in case things go awry at their "dream school." This program is on the rise, and I don't believe the staff should make room to accommodate transfers that view SLU as a backup plan.

[JettFlight5]

Well, over the course of the past few months it has seemed so. Elijah Brown will be the 5th scholarship player to leave since November. That program really is in absolute free fall after Stevens booked it, you gotta feel for their fan base. To clarify, I don't necessarily feel bad that their program is falling apart; rather, I feel bad for the average fan of a decent program coming off the hinges (not to be confused with fans of SPUMAC, who I feel zero sympathy for).

Now, I wonder what that tool Martin is thinking after choosing Butler over us... Berry is also stuck in a rut as of late. I think Clock really hit the nail on the head in a previous thread when he spoke about recruits that used to think of SLU as a lesser option, but are now severely paying the price for that belief. Hopefully people are starting to realize that we are not simply a backup in case things go awry at their "dream school." This program is on the rise, and I don't believe the staff should make room to accommodate transfers that view SLU as a backup plan.

Brandon Miller has a lot to prove at Butler. I don't think it's necessarily his fault (those kids came to play for Brad Stevens and get coached by some wannabe assistant). They're proving every day why the Big East royally screwed up taking them...but that's not going to change.

[DeSmetBilliken]

I think time will tell how this works out at Butler. I thought they'd regress after Stevens left. Apparently Austin Etherington (Indiana transfer) is going there and is eligible immediately. Also Tyler Lewis, the little point guard from NC State that had 7 turnovers against us in the NCAA game, is going there too.

It's a different situation, because I assume these players are leaving voluntarily, but we had a pretty sizable exodus after Majerus' first year. It may have looked like players were jumping ship, but it may have offered us the chance to bring in players that better suited what Majerus wanted. This could be a chance for Butler to build a team better suited for the Big East. Remember, when Nolan Berry verbally committed to Butler, they were in the Horizon League.

[slu72]

Contrast Butler to VCU, the two latest mids to make the Final 4 and a major splash nationally. Stevens leaves, and I don't think it was all for the big bucks but that he knew this year's Bulldogs would get hammered in the NBE and it wouldn't get any easier going forward which would tarnish his reputation, and Butler starts to come apart at the seams. Now look at VCU, Shaka turns down all offers, so far, and lands 3 of ESPN's top 100 recruits for their incoming class, and suffers no transfers. VCU will continue to be good and will be a dominant team in the A10 next year and in future years to come. As I recall, Butler was pretty much a middle of the road team during the MCC days, please verify that Taj Mahal 79, and didn't set the A10 on fire either. Now it appears they're destined to become roommates w/ DePaul in the NBE's wine cellar. They're digging themselves a big hole, and the only way to get out of it may be the hiring of a high priced big name coach, or wait and see what happens to Stevens w/ the Celtics and pull him back to the college ranks ala UL w/ Pitino. I say to Butler, "You ain't in the Horizon anymore, Toto."

[JMM28]

Matthew Graves is a guy who really got in the Stevens deal.

[TheChosenOne]

I think they had a few guys suspended throughout the season as well, so I imagine the number of transfers, suspensions, and losses have Butler fans a little anxious.

With regards to the transfers, Brown seems like the only guy that would be considered a big loss for the program, but it looks like with the return of Roosevelt Jones and some other additions, he may have questioned his role going forward.

[Clock_Tower]

Contrast Butler to VCU, the two latest mids to make the Final 4 and a major splash nationally. Stevens leaves, and I don't think it was all for the big bucks but that he knew this year's Bulldogs would get hammered in the NBE and it wouldn't get any easier going forward which would tarnish his reputation, and Butler starts to come apart at the seams. Now look at VCU, Shaka turns down all offers, so far, and lands 3 of ESPN's top 100 recruits for their incoming class, and suffers no transfers. VCU will continue to be good and will be a dominant team in the A10 next year and in future years to come. As I recall, Butler was pretty much a middle of the road team during the MCC days, please verify that Taj Mahal 79, and didn't set the A10 on fire either. Now it appears they're destined to become roommates w/ DePaul in the NBE's wine cellar. They're digging themselves a big hole, and the only way to get out of it may be the hiring of a high priced big name coach, or wait and see what happens to Stevens w/ the Celtics and pull him back to the college ranks ala UL w/ Pitino. I say to Butler, "You ain't in the Horizon anymore, Toto."

Again. The whole debate over whether it is"better" easier to be the big fish in the smaller pond or to jump into the big pond... RM was one of the first to do this. Win, and win big, from the likes of Ball State, Utah and SLU. Later versions of RM are found at Gonzaga, X, Butler, VCU, etc.

[slufan13]

Stevens has said his goal was always the NBA. I don't think how good Butler would be had anything to do with it

[JettFlight5]

Stevens has said his goal was always the NBA. I don't think how good Butler would be had anything to do with it

You may well be right. I think it would have been harder to leave if he'd have had a great team coming back, but I can't say you're wrong by any means.

[slu72]

Stevens has said his goal was always the NBA. I don't think how good Butler would be had anything to do with it

Never heard that. So, I guess he got his wish.

[Taj79]

@larry72 ....you are right about Butler in MCC days. They were always the team I felt we could/should beat. Same feeling existed when we were in the Metro only the team to beat then was Tulane. Butler was in the MCC beginning in 1979. We left the Metro to join the MCC in the 1982-83 season. We left there for the Great Midwest in 1991-92. In those years in the MCC with Butler, we were 12 and 8 counting the end-of-season tournament matches. But even some of the road losses were one-two-three point games. The MCC then became the Horizon where Butler stayed until they jumped to the A10 and then on to the NBE.

I would never consider Butler to have been any "good," but they did have those two runs to the final game in 2010 and 2011 or whatever. That's a lot of love, no matter who does it. So they rode that wave to where they are now and I think it will continue to hurt them in the long run. I think the comparison to DePaul is warranted. But I also think that of the two schools, DePaul has the better chance ---- one would think sooner or later, some of that big time Chicago talent will eventually stay home (Parker,Okafor, etc.).

Kids sign today with coaches. Without Stevens and his mysticism, Butler has issues.

[slu72]

I can't figure out DePaul's troubles. They've hired name coaches after they got over the fascination w/ the Meyer family, but no one's been able to get it done there. And they sit in one of the nation's biggest talent pools. A mystery, especially since they can draw good women players. Go figure. Butler could bounce back but it depends... Drumroll... The coach. Just like everywhere else.

[TRN]

I can't figure out DePaul's troubles. They've hired name coaches after they got over the fascination w/ the Meyer family, but no one's been able to get it done there. And they sit in one of the nation's biggest talent pools. A mystery, especially since they can draw good women players. Go figure. Butler could bounce back but it depends... Drumroll... The coach. Just like everywhere else.

Really? It's a city school with no campus and playing games in Rosemont. That's like taking classes at UMSL and having games at the Family Arena

[MusicCityBilliken]

@larry72 ....you are right about Butler in MCC days. They were always the team I felt we could/should beat. Same feeling existed when we were in the Metro only the team to beat then was Tulane. Butler was in the MCC beginning in 1979. We left the Metro to join the MCC in the 1982-83 season. We left there for the Great Midwest in 1991-92. In those years in the MCC with Butler, we were 12 and 8 counting the end-of-season tournament matches. But even some of the road losses were one-two-three point games. The MCC then became the Horizon where Butler stayed until they jumped to the A10 and then on to the NBE.

I would never consider Butler to have been any "good," but they did have those two runs to the final game in 2010 and 2011 or whatever. That's a lot of love, no matter who does it. So they rode that wave to where they are now and I think it will continue to hurt them in the long run. I think the comparison to DePaul is warranted. But I also think that of the two schools, DePaul has the better chance ---- one would think sooner or later, some of that big time Chicago talent will eventually stay home (Parker,Okafor, etc.).

Kids sign today with coaches. Without Stevens and his mysticism, Butler has issues.

Just prior to Stevens they had Matta and Lickliter. Matta was just one year & got them into the round of 32. Lickliter was with them 6 years which included 2 sweet 16s.

Concerning Stevens going to the Celtics, Doc Rivers salary with the Celts was around $7 mil when he left, I am guessing but I bet Stevens was in the $1 mil range with Butler. The Boston Globe reported that the Celts gave Stevens a 6 year contract for 22 mil. with probably good opportunity to increase that.

[Taj79]

@tarheel--- very true but those were Juan-bids from the Horizon League as well (which is the MCC today). Butler ran as the medium fish in a small pond. I would almost guarantee you that their first and oinly year in the A10, with that talent, they likely would have wiped the Horizon clean. As it was, they were barely a top four team in the A10. The Matta-Lickliter-Stevens-Miller connection has been referred to as "the Butler way." Promoting assistants from within.

I agree with larry72's question on DePaul and believe it has to break eventually. But TRN is also correct in describing their home environment. I have never seen their practice facilities but from afar, I'm betting it's more West Pine Gym than Chaifetz. Last I heard, they were trying to get a free place built for them at McCormack Place or somewhere on the near South Side. Again, nowhere near the campus as I understand.

DePaul seems more akin to Fordham status now more than ever. Fordham was relevant once,weren't they?

[slu72]

@tarheel--- very true but those were Juan-bids from the Horizon League as well (which is the MCC today). Butler ran as the medium fish in a small pond. I would almost guarantee you that their first and oinly year in the A10, with that talent, they likely would have wiped the Horizon clean. As it was, they were barely a top four team in the A10. The Matta-Lickliter-Stevens-Miller connection has been referred to as "the Butler way." Promoting assistants from within.

I agree with larry72's question on DePaul and believe it has to break eventually. But TRN is also correct in describing their home environment. I have never seen their practice facilities but from afar, I'm betting it's more West Pine Gym than Chaifetz. Last I heard, they were trying to get a free place built for them at McCormack Place or somewhere on the near South Side. Again, nowhere near the campus as I understand.

DePaul seems more akin to Fordham status now more than ever. Fordham was relevant once,weren't they?

Fordham more for FB than hoops, but like back in the 30s. TRN is probably correct why Rue Paul hasn't done much since the Ray Meyer era, still it's perplexing given the talent that lives in their backyard. I shudder to think where we'd be w/o the Fetz.

[MusicCityBilliken]

Fordham was relevant once,weren't they?

That one year back in the early 70s when they had Digger. That's all can remember other then a few NIT appearances. Concerning DePaul, its sad to say the Fat Pat was its last coach that actually did anything positive. And that's stretching the word positive. (I think Leitoa lasted a year or two and got out quickly)

[Taj79]

@larry72 ----I kindly disagree with your statement that DePaul has hired big name coaches since the Meyer days:

Ray Meyer - 1942 thru 1984

Son Joey --- 1984 thru 1997

Since then:

Pat Kennedy ------ 1998 thru 2002 (hired from HC job at Florida State, then on to Montana, Towson and Pace)

Dave Lietao ------- 2002 thru 2005 (hired from Uconn AC job, then on to Virginia, the Maine Red Claws and now a Haith assistant at Mizzou)

Jerry Wainwright - 2005 thru 2010 (hired from Richmond nee UNC-Wilmington then on to Ac at Fresno State and now an assistant at Marquette)

Ollie Purnell ------- 2010 to present (hired from Clemson nee Dayton).

Frankly, i don't see a "big name" in the bunch.

[MusicCityBilliken]

TAJ, I agree if Fat Pat is the best of the lot that's not good.

Even legend HOF Ray Meyer was 'so-so'. He had few years in the beginning of his career at DePaul with Mikan and few good years at the end with Aguirre and Cummings. The over all majority of his in between years at DePaul were mediocre at best.

I used to catch NBDL Asheville Alltitude games with Coach Son Joey at the Asheville Convention Ctr.

The old and new BE made a mistake.

[Box and Won]

Fat Pat's Wikipedia entry is kind of funny. It takes note of each consecutive losing season he's had.

1997–98 DePaul 7–23

1998–99 DePaul 18–13

1999-00 DePaul 21–12 NCAA First Round

2000–01 DePaul 12–18

2001–02 DePaul 9–19 2nd consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

DePaul: 67–85

Montana (Big Sky Conference) (2002–2004)

2002–03 Montana 13–17 7–7 4th 3rd consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2003–04 Montana 10–18 6–8 7th 4th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

Montana: 23–35 13–15

Towson (Colonial Athletic Association) (2004–2011)

2004–05 Towson 5–24 2–16 10th 5th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2005–06 Towson 12–16 8–10 8th 6th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2006–07 Towson 15–17 8–10 8th 7th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2007–08 Towson 13–18 7–11 9th 8th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2008–09 Towson 12–22 5–13 10th 9th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2009–10 Towson 10–21 5–13 8th 10th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

2010–11 Towson 4–26 0–18 12th APR score below 900 resulted in 2012–13 postseason ban – Fired after the season – 11th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

Towson: 71–144 39–78

Pace (Northeast-10 Conference) (2013–present) 2013–14 Pace 7–19 5–15 15th 12th consecutive losing season for Kennedy as a head coach

[Taj79]

@torch --- probably written/editted by a "Fat Pat" fan. Could even be billiken_roy.