Beyond disgusted about last night

[Soderball]

You don't need an FTE just for the SLUnatics, but you clearly do need a lot more guidance and support than the department is currently providing, if it's providing any at all.

Nah. You just need to win games. If we win 20 a season students will be camping out for tix, regardless of whatever is on facebook. Get real.

[Bay Area Billiken]

There's no need to despair. SLU is ranked #1 in the NCAA D-1 RPI in the entire Show Me State:

1- 203 SLU

2- 207 Mizzou

3- 235 Missouri State

4- 284 UMKC

5- 327 SEMO

[cheeseman]

Tremendous post Bonwich..was thinking the same watching the halftime and the fleeing by the supposed athletes ...I do not post a lot but am a long time supporter and was a friend of Rick...there is no way he wanted Crews in charge of this ..Alex J and their fallout along with his health all contributed to the steps that followed..Alex was like his son and it devastated him when Alex left. Crews was a "let me help out an old buddy call" Those close to the situation knew it was the wrong call for Crews as I myself do not know if he was even excited to no longer be interim.The sound of the apathy around the program is deafening but the question remains..Is anybody listening that can change this train wreck ?

Interesting - some on here have said Crews was his hand picked successor. I never bought that. RM's illness was the big issue - had he been able to last just one more year as coach, we would have been a better situation to determine who followed. But, we are were we are and now we have to right the ship.

[kmbilliken]

So there are a couple things going on here that as a student I think I can help with. First, living with a current student athlete and knowing the entirety of his team I can tell you with 100% certainty that they do not support the basketball program unless they have these academic nights. A few of them have actually complained they had to make the walk to Chaifetz (laughable as it seems) "just to have my name read".

The second aspect is that of SLUnatics. I can honestly say that there really is no presence of them on campus and athletic events. Yes, they post on facebook but it more of a chastising others who aren't showing up. The ironic part of this whole thing is that I have never seen them actively recruiting people to join or try and get some of the students to come out. Their impact on the student attendance is simply not there from my perspective. So yes they are still around, but in no means are they showing the unwavering support that I would expect from them. And since they are not actively promoting themselves, they are really an ineffective organization.

What is your take on why they don't support the basketball team?

[majerus mojo]

What is your take on why they don't support the basketball team?

I'm sure the basketball players aren't attending many swim meets.. also, they suck

[Cowboy]

You don't need an FTE just for the SLUnatics, but you clearly do need a lot more guidance and support than the department is currently providing, if it's providing any at all.

-that wouldn't be the entirety of the position - although if I were trying to sell myself for that role I might be tempted to say it is as I would say that I can get the U 100 students after two seasons that would have gone elsewhere except my leadership caused going to games to become an event for the students and the U will be selling that to new students

-is the support now the "free" pizzas and balloons?

[Cowboy]

Nah. You just need to win games. If we win 20 a season students will be camping out for tix, regardless of whatever is on facebook. Get real.

-I used to be in the camp, not there now

[Cowboy]

Tremendous post Bonwich..was thinking the same watching the halftime and the fleeing by the supposed athletes ...I do not post a lot but am a long time supporter and was a friend of Rick...there is no way he wanted Crews in charge of this ..Alex J and their fallout along with his health all contributed to the steps that followed..Alex was like his son and it devastated him when Alex left. Crews was a "let me help out an old buddy call" Those close to the situation knew it was the wrong call for Crews as I myself do not know if he was even excited to no longer be interim.The sound of the apathy around the program is deafening but the question remains..Is anybody listening that can change this train wreck ?

-it is an established fact that Rick handpicked Crews as his successor

-for those not aware, the shade of blue in the line above indicates sarcasm, and in this case sarcasm to the highest degree

[SLUfan_42]

Isn't some blame to be placed on RM if, indeed, Crews was his hand-picked successor?

[billiken class of 15]

As a recent graduate (2015), I can say that I'm not the slightest bit surprised by the lack of enthusiasm from the students. Most kids were glad to jump on the bandwagon when we were nationally ranked, and they were just as quick to jump off when the going got rough. I agree that the AD needs a better marketing strategy for the students, but marketing to this group is an insanely difficult task. Most SLU students just don't care. Even when we were great, there were very few loyal and dedicated fans in the student section. I'm just thankful that I got to experience the height of SLU basketball. I made great friends and incredible memories in the student section (enough good memories that I will continue to support and love SLU for the rest of my life).

[MB73]

"I'd die if a basketball player ever came to a baseball game."

[papal]

Good point; most of us oldtimers became fans in the 60s, 70s, when we had a decent product. We were in the top 10-20 under John Bennington. Things really fell off with Buddy Brehmer who had an aversion to recruiting African-Americans. I can't see how students attending basketball games the past 2 years can enjoy Billiken basketball and become long-term fans

[billikenfan05]

"I'd die if a basketball player ever came to a baseball game."

Kyle Cassity attended a few back in the day

[johnbj14]

What is your take on why they don't support the basketball team?

It isn't necessarily a take but just from my interactions with the athletes I am close with they just don't care. I'd say it is in part because their lives are more structured than the average student and their free time is less, but also it just seems not many of them care about basketball. This second point is not just limited to athletes. There just aren't many students who care about basketball if we aren't good. It is unfortunate this apathy exists, but the only real way it will change is an improvement in the product or perhaps a more focused effort on marketing the games to students. Yes the AD tries to plan things in the way of themes and such, but communication with students on game promotions, themes, or even tickets is pathetic. As someone who just wants to enjoy college basketball in a beautiful on campus arena, it sickens me how simple details are just botched. An improvement there could definitely help turnout in some capacity.

[bonwich]

Nah. You just need to win games. If we win 20 a season students will be camping out for tix, regardless of whatever is on facebook. Get real.

1. Like they did after our most recent 20-win seasons? Uh huh. The "just win, baby" faction was thoroughly discredited over the past five years or so. Get real yourself.

2. Saint Louis University is never, ever going to post 20-win seasons for more than a year or two at time. We're always going to be middle of the pack, because we're always going to have to rely on the luck of the draw in the 2* and 3* players we recruit. Maybe we'll get the occasional 4* if we get lucky with some strings similar to the RickMa glory sequence. But we ain't BCS, and we ain't in a high-vis conference, and we ain't got a speck of tradition, and we ain't exactly located in the garden spot of the Midwest. (Plus we're Jesuit, so we can't hire hookers for our recruits' visits.)

[Soderball]

1. Like they did after our most recent 20-win seasons? Uh huh. The "just win, baby" faction was thoroughly discredited over the past five years or so. Get real yourself.

2. Saint Louis University is never, ever going to post 20-win seasons for more than a year or two at time. We're always going to be middle of the pack, because we're always going to have to rely on the luck of the draw in the 2* and 3* players we recruit. Maybe we'll get the occasional 4* if we get lucky with some strings similar to the RickMa glory sequence. But we ain't BCS, and we ain't in a high-vis conference, and we ain't got a speck of tradition, and we ain't exactly located in the garden spot of the Midwest. (Plus we're Jesuit, so we can't hire hookers for our recruits' visits.)

Xavier and dayton do just fine. Tradition develops when you win. Evansville and army have pretty crummy basketball tradition too.

Spoon filled the damn Kiel. We drew quite we under him and Rick.

SLU remains drawing over 5k even with shite product.. Attendance isnt the issue, sucking is the issue.

Why do we "have" to rely on bad players? Grawer, Romar, Spoon, Soderberg, and Majerus all outrecruited Crews.

This guy really does just suck that badly. We got duped.

[majerus mojo]

1. Like they did after our most recent 20-win seasons? Uh huh. The "just win, baby" faction was thoroughly discredited over the past five years or so. Get real yourself.

2. Saint Louis University is never, ever going to post 20-win seasons for more than a year or two at time. We're always going to be middle of the pack, because we're always going to have to rely on the luck of the draw in the 2* and 3* players we recruit. Maybe we'll get the occasional 4* if we get lucky with some strings similar to the RickMa glory sequence. But we ain't BCS, and we ain't in a high-vis conference, and we ain't got a speck of tradition, and we ain't exactly located in the garden spot of the Midwest. (Plus we're Jesuit, so we can't hire hookers for our recruits' visits.)

1. DURING our 20 win campaigns the students turned out. Often times they were more impressive than the general fanbase. On the whole, yes, we don't exactly attract many who are interested in the hoops. I don't know why you chose the word "after". Keep winning and they will keep showing up, same with everyone else.

2. Agree with Soderball. Cincinnati is some Midwestern garden? This whole paragraph blows. I don't know how else to put it. If we're never going to post 20W seasons for more than a year or two at a time, then I assume you have no problem with what's happening? All part of the cycle. If we're always going to be "middle of the pack", then you have to assume sometimes we'll be below pack, as sometimes we'll be above. This feels like the attitude of the whole AD right now, because lord knows they haven't hinted they give a about anything that's happening. "We're just Saint Louis U., we can't always be good ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

[Clock_Tower]

1. Like they did after our most recent 20-win seasons? Uh huh. The "just win, baby" faction was thoroughly discredited over the past five years or so. Get real yourself.

2. Saint Louis University is never, ever going to post 20-win seasons for more than a year or two at time. We're always going to be middle of the pack, because we're always going to have to rely on the luck of the draw in the 2* and 3* players we recruit. Maybe we'll get the occasional 4* if we get lucky with some strings similar to the RickMa glory sequence. But we ain't BCS, and we ain't in a high-vis conference, and we ain't got a speck of tradition, and we ain't exactly located in the garden spot of the Midwest. (Plus we're Jesuit, so we can't hire hookers for our recruits' visits.)

Disagree. 20 wins seasons is not an unreasonable expectation. 20 win seasons mean we have a competitive team and are a NIT contender each year. 25+ win seasons are required to be an NCAA Tourney team. 2 and 3 stars who are properly coached and developed can win 20 games each year.and 25+ wins every so often.

[billiken_roy]

Kyle Cassity attended a few back in the day

Pretty sure kyle now works for the cardinals in their marketing dept.

[Taj79]

My opinions:

I always advocated for an on-campus arena and always thought "if you build it, they will come." Apparently, I was wrong.

We join with others and come to this board, we are Saint Louis University basketball junkies. It is our passion, our vice, our drug. We are a miniscule minority with the ranks approaching extinction given the current product/coach on display.

Twenty wins = rushing for 1,000 yards in the NFL nowadays. Ho-hum. Remember when 1,000 yards meant something? What's the standard now? Sixteen games times 100 ypg = 1,600? Seems fair. Given 350+ teams in the NCAA's D1 basketball ranks, and the abundance of OOC buy games, 20 wins is next to nothing. I agree with 25+.

St. Louis fans, based on experience and consort with them, have always loved one team -- the baseball Cardinals. No questions asked. All the others have peaked and vallied because they seem to have more fair-weather fans who will ride the winner. I've long believed that and have said it before and been bashed for it. Yes, there are Blues fans and Rams fans and (old) Steamer fans and yes they were passionate and devoted, but when 50k show up to watch the last place Cardinals battle the last place Cubs in late September, well, that speaks volumes.

I always thought of Saint Louis as a commuter school. Folks have told me not so much now, with housing abundant/required and so on. Yet they still don't come. Unless it's freebies. Maybe some sort of scientific survey or focus groups can explain why. I can't. In our case, I'm not sure winning cures everything either. But if someone is going to attack the problem, it would make sense to scientifically explore the battlefield before you enter it. Otherwise, you're just pissing in the wind and guessing.

Bonowich once went into a discussion on how building our own arena was a bad idea. I disagreed. Right now, given the visuals I see on TV, of empty blue seats stretching around the entire top deck and the place so dead I can pick up the cheerleaders conversations during games, he was/is right. That is pitiful.

Another example we have returned to 1982? Talk of Division 2. Now maybe that's restricted to a few MBMs on here but the fact that is occurring --- a scant two years after our 'glory days' --- and there is nowhere else one need turn to see the disarray this program is in and the meteoric drop that is currently underway.

When my daughter went to undergrad, she and her suite-mates went to every baseball game. Two of the four dated baseball players. She went to every volleyball game her freshman year because she was an AD work-study student. When that ended her sophomore year, never saw another game. Went to every soccer game -- because she dated a soccer player. Went to one basketball game in four years, on Parent's Weekend when we came down (High Point vs. Presbyterian -- so I've seen bad). We are on here because of our addiction; an addiction most don't share. An addiction where only death is the cure. We are one end of the spectrum; once again our student body seems to trend to the other end. What passes for logic to us on here is not seen in the same way elsewhere.

When Grawer took over, Saint Louis University was a college basketball wasteland. When he came on board in 1982-83, not only was the immediate state of the program a wreck, the overall program hadn't been in an NCAA tournament since 1956-57. Our last NIT team was in 1964-65. Given that legacy, I would offer that the then powers-that-be not only had no clue what it took to rise above the ashes, but they had no immediate measuring stick to know what they were missing. That is not the case today. May and Novelly and Chaifetz and all of us currently sucking down oxygen know how it felt, know what it meant, and can still taste the sweet success of 2013-14. So the horror of the current situation should strike deep. Crews and staff should go.

I will be surprised if it happens.

[Soderball]

You all are out of your minds. SLU draws over 7k a game with multiple years taken into account. That includes buy games and D2-3 crap that the AD throws into the schedule for "fiduciary" reasons.

What do you want? I remember plenty of our big games being packed houses that were loud as hell. Even the Great Dwight Evans mentioned that Chaifetz "used to be LIT."

This program has had plenty of energy and excitement, you folks have already forgotten how things were under Majerus in our great 3-year run and even the CBI run in which we played future Final Four team VCU.

This is Crews' fault. Wednesday was Crews' fault. The losses are Crews' fault. The lack of talent is Crews' fault. The disastrous contract with Crews is the AD's fault.

Fire Jim Crews, start rebuilding, get 20 wins, have hopes for an NCAA tournament, and this program will start rolling again.

Have you all already forgotten Columbus!? Were you even there!? for those of you who were you know what I'm talking about. What about the game at Butler in which we traveled well and owned their ancient gym?

Crews is literally the worst coach in all of college basketball.

Why would anyone want to ruin their night by watching this team get clobbered by a mediocre Richmond squad? 14 minutes of non-scoring? I think midterms, tests, etc. are far more important than supporting bad products. Sell something people want.

[slu72]

The loss of the Rams should create a small window of opportunity for the months of Nov-Jan for SLU hoops. However, with the crap product we're offering now it's an opportunity lost. We need a coach that will create some enthusiasm and excitement for hoops in St. Louis. Over the past 60-70 years, SLU has definitely had it's ups and downs in drawing fans. I used to hear about how the Kiel used to sell out regularly from the late 40s thru the mid 60s. My experience was late 60s early 70s. It started in the old Arena, which was a joke. Even when we got 5,000 fans it seemed empty. Then they moved back to the Kiel and the atmosphere improved, but Bob Polk was also putting a winning team on the floor.

Most of you know how interest went up and down after the early 70s thru the present. But it does seem clear, and very obvious, that when the product's good people will buy it. The Spoonball era, the Majerus years prove this to be true. Just win baby should always be the mantra.

[kshoe]

I don't get the "fans weren't there when we won" comments at all.

The chaifetz was packed (9k plus) for nearly every conference game during that 3 year run. The fans were there when we won and will be back when we start winning again. It's that simple.

[Box and Won]

Student attendance and non-student attendance are two different animals. Non-student attendance has been shockingly decent considering the lackluster product on the court. Students are fickle as hell when it comes to going to basketball games.

[Bobby Metzinger]

The loss of the Rams should create a small window of opportunity for the months of Nov-Jan for SLU hoops. However, with the crap product we're offering now it's an opportunity lost. We need a coach that will create some enthusiasm and excitement for hoops in St. Louis. Over the past 60-70 years, SLU has definitely had it's ups and downs in drawing fans. I used to hear about how the Kiel used to sell out regularly from the late 40s thru the mid 60s. My experience was late 60s early 70s. It started in the old Arena, which was a joke. Even when we got 5,000 fans it seemed empty. Then they moved back to the Kiel and the atmosphere improved, but Bob Polk was also putting a winning team on the floor.

Most of you know how interest went up and down after the early 70s thru the present. But it does seem clear, and very obvious, that when the product's good people will buy it. The Spoonball era, the Majerus years prove this to be true. Just win baby should always be the mantra.

I don't want to see SLU hoops as someone's secondary or tertiary option for sports entertainment. They just fill seats and are bodies. If they aren't SLU basketball fans and just want something to do on a Sunday afternoon, go to a game at the 'Wood or SIU-E.