brianstl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 There are a lot of teams that run the motion offense, which by the way, goes back to Henry Iba. I'm sure Bill Self would be surprised to find out from this board that his Hi-Low Motion Offense doesn't cut it anymore. Bobby Knight's and Jim Crews offense philosophy is not the same as Bill Self's. Self runs set plays and ball screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wiz. Wow. You are sure high on Welmer!! This team would be .500 in conference and overall with Welmer? Really? Tell us more what you saw of him in practice. What type of player will he be similar to? Does he play defense? Not saying that Welmer does not have talent, but Neufeld had so much more hype and expectations... and Crews literally killed it. I refuse to believe that Neufeld is as bad as he has played for Crews. Wrong teacher/coach... negative environment.... but there is a problem when Jolly gets minutes and Neufeld does not. Sorry , I didn't mean to convey that Welmer was a star. Just that he would have added a presence that may have added a few wins. We were 5-7 in out of conf games...so 1 more win there...and we are 3-7 in conf..so maybe a couple of wins there. Not a great difference...but enough to maybe tip a few games. From what I saw preseason he was aggressive, he rebounded and was able to finish shots.. Of the 3 players ...to me, he looked the best. Was he a star? No ..still rough around the edges ...but he looked like he had potential...enough maybe to steal a few games. Now according to JC ...he said you can't really tell anything by watching a few practices...the staff sees them every day....so maybe I am wrong....guess we will find out next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenbill Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Sorry , I didn't mean to convey that Welmer was a star. Just that he would have added a presence that may have added a few wins. We were 5-7 in out of conf games...so 1 more win there...and we are 3-7 in conf..so maybe a couple of wins there. Not a great difference...but enough to maybe tip a few games. From what I saw preseason he was aggressive, he rebounded and was able to finish shots.. Of the 3 players ...to me, he looked the best. Was he a star? No ..still rough around the edges ...but he looked like he had potential...enough maybe to steal a few games. Now according to JC ...he said you can't really tell anything by watching a few practices...the staff sees them every day....so maybe I am wrong....guess we will find out next year. I saw the same thing from Welmer in the Bahamas games that Wiz has seen. I thought with Welmer, our ceiling was 18 wins, without,14. He's got really good hands, moves well, and is a threat from outside. That's why I nicknamed him, The Beast, although a little tongue in cheek since he's so skinny. I'll think you'll like what you see from EW when you get the chance. One thing though, I've seen two players this year who suffered a foot fracture last year struggle to return to form. So we'll see how it effects EW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 The general tone of the show was that there is so much to absorb....too much...so we have to simplfy...throw out a lot of stuff and that's why we are struggling....Still learning We heard the same thing last year. Problem seems to be with the teacher and not the students. If a 3rd grade student is struggling with 3rd grade math and the teacher throws out the hard stuff, that student will suck at 4th grade math. If a freshman or sophomore is struggling with the offense and the coach throws out the hard stuff, they'll suck as a sophomore or junior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Also lol at the Bill Self motion offense vs Jim Crews motion offense comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Bobby Knight's and Jim Crews offense philosophy is not the same as Bill Self's. Self runs set plays and ball screens. Same principles. Every coach puts his own wrinkles into the system. Variations of the motion offense is used by quite a few colleges today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Same principles. Every coach puts his own wrinkles into the system. The Motion Offense is the primary offense used in college hoops today. Trying to bundle all motion offenses together is like trying to bundle all zone defenses together. It is foolish and lazy analysis. There are very few similarities between Self's offense and Knight's. Knight thought ball screens and set plays were done by lazy coaches. He would be offended that you are trying to say his offense is the same as Self's offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmith19 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 He would be offended that you are trying to say his offense is the same as Self's offense. But not if you said his offense is the same as Crews' offense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 While I agree with kshoe's analysis wholeheartedly, I know wasn't talking about what I'll call the amenities here now at Saint Louis versus the absolute shitehole Grawer walked into. Yes, the general atmosphere was quite different back then as opposed to now. And I am in no position to evaluate the talent left in the cupboard in 1982-83 versus now. My comment was more directed at the perception of Saint Louis University around the basketball universe. And I was not clear on that so my bad. Back in 82-83 we were nothing. Our atmosphere was ancient history and glory resided solely in the McCauley years. While the Majerus years are not that far in the rear-view mirror now, I would offer that folks would see them as some of us might -- that they were an aberration given who the coach was and what he employed and how he recruited and how we got him. And as evidenced by the current Crews regime, it is not a guarantee such success is immediately handed down from one staff to the next. The end product is a result of a variety of ingredients all brewing together to form the perfect product. A lot of which depends on the coach and, in turn, his staff. Don't see it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 While I agree with kshoe's analysis wholeheartedly, I know wasn't talking about what I'll call the amenities here now at Saint Louis versus the absolute shitehole Grawer walked into. Yes, the general atmosphere was quite different back then as opposed to now. And I am in no position to evaluate the talent left in the cupboard in 1982-83 versus now. My comment was more directed at the perception of Saint Louis University around the basketball universe. And I was not clear on that so my bad. Back in 82-83 we were nothing. Our atmosphere was ancient history and glory resided solely in the McCauley years. While the Majerus years are not that far in the rear-view mirror now, I would offer that folks would see them as some of us might -- that they were an aberration given who the coach was and what he employed and how he recruited and how we got him. And as evidenced by the current Crews regime, it is not a guarantee such success is immediately handed down from one staff to the next. The end product is a result of a variety of ingredients all brewing together to form the perfect product. A lot of which depends on the coach and, in turn, his staff. Don't see it right now. I agree with a lot of this. For 95% of the programs out there it all depends on the coach. The right hire could put us back in the tourney most years. Our assets are good enough that the right guy can succeed. What May can not do is settle for some mediorcre name {think Porter] and expect to be anything above a mediorce program. I believe the way to go is a top notch energetic young assistant. I believe we need energy above everything else. Having a little personality wouldn't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 -is there a guarantee a new coach would be better than the current? scarily no, that is why DrP, May or whoever might have two big decisions, retain or fire and if fire who is the right replacement to succeed -make the right calls so we can extinguish the #dumpsterfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 -is there a guarantee a new coach would be better than the current? scarily no, that is why DrP, May or whoever might have two big decisions, retain or fire and if fire who is the right replacement to succeed -make the right calls so we can extinguish the #dumpsterfire I can't see how retaining is an option. When you are failing not doing something different is not an option. Your right there is no guarantee the new coach will succeed but the current staff is failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 I can't see how retaining is an option. When you are failing not doing something different is not an option. Your right there is no guarantee the new coach will succeed but the current staff is failing. -I don't see how retaining is an option, either, and agree the current staff is failing -will be interesting to see how many butts are in the seats tonight with the cold and threat of snow, apathy of the fans is the worst attribute for a program and we have it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 -is there a guarantee a new coach would be better than the current? scarily no, that is why DrP, May or whoever might have two big decisions, retain or fire and if fire who is the right replacement to succeed -make the right calls so we can extinguish the #dumpsterfire You want guarantees - death and taxes is all you will get. If you are afraid to change because you want a guarantee then I am not sure how to respond to your fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Here's my honest take after close to 2 years of a freefall. Crews - Coaching like it's 1995 - he wasn't that good even then. Commits a crime every day by stealing a very large paycheck. Team would be better off coaching themselves like they did after Majerus died. Players don't respect him. He can't teach them anything. Some players have regressed. It's not the players' fault they aren't getting it. And if it was, Crews is the one who recruited them. I'd leave him in Brooklyn after our season ends. Platt - He yells a lot. Supposedly the "defense" guy. I can tell because our defense f.uckingsucks Bronson - Could maybe be decent with a competent head coach. Maybe not though. He draws up the set plays right? Most fail before the ball is inbounded. Are they that bad? Too complex for our players? Cheaney - Gets plenty of good recruits on campus but Crews hasn't closed the deal on a single one of them. Doesn't seem like he contributes anything to the actual development and strategy part of the game. Is it because he can't or because Crews won't let him? Danny Brown - He sucked in that $1M Majerus team. Don't really know what he brings to the table anyway. Marcus Wilson - He played for Crews so what does he know? Nishida - He tried to schedule a couple recruits during a dead period that even fans were aware of. Enough said. Senior - Ash is trying hard this year and seems more like a team player. I give him credit. He came to play for the Majerus Billikens that thrashed his Villanova squad. The one year of Crews where he was totally hands-off was false advertising. Juniors - Crawford and Reggie are two of the three best players so giving Crews a pass seems like an idiotic and unintelligent thing to do. Both seem like good, hard-working players with their heads on straight. They could help a new coach win in his first year. Keep them around. Don't know where Hines falls but that experiment can end any time. Decent defender. Pretty bad at offense. Sophomores - Reynolds has gotten better but is one-dimensional. Maybe a new coach can fix that but if he left I wouldn't lose sleep. Bartley is a shooter who can't shoot. Roby regressed. I have hope for him but his shooting form doesn't scream consistency to me in the long run. He's a mediocre player trapped in a good player's body. Gillmann was already too slow and now he's coming back from a broken foot. If a new coach keeps Jolly, you can write that coach off as a failure. Milik has a high ceiling and a low brain. Freshman - Bishop is a keeper and seems to have his head on straight. A new coach could push him over the top. He could have played more early in the season despite his horrible defense. Neufeld is looking like a bust but I'll give him another year with a competent staff. I liked Welmer's potential but he'll be 21 year old freshman next year so if he doesn't get it pretty quickly, he's a lost cause. Tonight....Play your best players. No constant substitutions. If Richmond is zoning us, don't sit Crawford and Bishop in favor of Roby and Reynolds. Let the players play through mistakes. Let the players play through your own coaching mistakes. It's a game we can win or a game we can get run out of our own building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 You want guarantees - death and taxes is all you will get. If you are afraid to change because you want a guarantee then I am not sure how to respond to your fear. -sure I would like a guarantee but I said there isn't one and that in spite of that there needs to be a change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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