3star_recruit Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We were 305th in the NCAA in rebounding last year. We only had 3 players average over 3 rpg. I think our inability to rebound was the most overlooked story from last year. If you look at our losses to Mason and Fordham, you'll see we got absolutely dominated on the boards. That's the area where having a 6'10 kid who can jump will help right away. Even if Neufeld isn't the one getting the rebound, he's someone the other team has to account for when a shot goes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We also didn't force a lot of missed shots last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We were 305th in the NCAA in rebounding last year. We only had 3 players average over 3 rpg. I think our inability to rebound was the most overlooked story from last year. If you look at our losses to Mason and Fordham, you'll see we got absolutely dominated on the boards. That's the area where having a 6'10 kid who can jump will help right away. Even if Neufeld isn't the one getting the rebound, he's someone the other team has to account for when a shot goes up. We graduated a 6'11" player, so isn't that kind of a wash? Even if Neufeld will be better in the long run, he's a freshman this year. I think any improvement in rebounding - and there has to be some improvement because it'd be hard to get worse - will come from returning players starting to figure it out more. It just looked like so many of them didn't understand rebounding on a fundamental level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We graduated a 6'11" player, so isn't that kind of a wash? Even if Neufeld will be better in the long run, he's a freshman this year. I think any improvement in rebounding - and there has to be some improvement because it'd be hard to get worse - will come from returning players starting to figure it out more. It just looked like so many of them didn't understand rebounding on a fundamental level. -I hope MN is not a wash for JM, even at the start of the season, perhaps misplaced hope but hope nonetheless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 As disappointing as Manning was, he was still a senior and is being replaced by a freshman. Neufeld will have a learning curve. He's not going to be a 7 RPG guy immediately. Manning averaged 1.9 RPG; based on our experience with freshman bigs, we probably shouldn't expect a much higher number from Neufeld this season. We're just not a much different roster than last year. Rebounding is still going to be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We graduated a 6'11" player, so isn't that kind of a wash? Even if Neufeld will be better in the long run, he's a freshman this year. I think any improvement in rebounding - and there has to be some improvement because it'd be hard to get worse - will come from returning players starting to figure it out more. It just looked like so many of them didn't understand rebounding on a fundamental level. That, and general physical improvement of the players, specifically AG and MY. AG was a beanpole frosh who had trouble defensively and on the boards. Added muscle should help him a lot. I think MY has a lot of talent, but he was not a particularly good rebounder last year. That could change with better physical conditioning and effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 That, and general physical improvement of the players, specifically AG and MY. AG was a beanpole frosh who had trouble defensively and on the boards. Added muscle should help him a lot. I think MY has a lot of talent, but he was not a particularly good rebounder last year. That could change with better physical conditioning and effort. Right. If we can squeeze an extra rebound a game out of half the roster, that will go a much longer way than replacing Manning with Neufeld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 As disappointing as Manning was, he was still a senior and is being replaced by a freshman. Neufeld will have a learning curve. He's not going to be a 7 RPG guy immediately. Manning averaged 1.9 RPG; based on our experience with freshman bigs, we probably shouldn't expect a much higher number from Neufeld this season. We're just not a much different roster than last year. Rebounding is still going to be a problem. Austin Gillmann averaged 2.1 rpg last year even with his athletic limitations and weighing in at 210 lb. Neufeld routinely out rebounded this year's version of Gillmann in summer practices. I expect Matt to be solid on the boards this year. Yes, team rebounding will be a problem. But being say, 205th in team rebounding instead of 305th would make us a better team on both ends of the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorB Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 bold prediction: Neufeld will definitely average well above 1.9 rebounds per game. Maybe not 7/ game, but more than 2! He is bigger and more athletic than John, by the way... ps: I really am hoping for a healthy, rejuvenated Reggie to add to the stats. I can say, talking to him recently, he is pretty stoked and feeling great. . He's not going to be a 7 RPG guy immediately. Manning averaged 1.9 RPG; based on our experience with freshman bigs, we probably shouldn't expect a much higher number from Neufeld this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We graduated a 6'11" player, so isn't that kind of a wash? [in Seinfeld voice] He knew how to take the rebound, he just didn't know how to hold the rebound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zink Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I was about to go look at our statsheet.com (billikenball.com) web page to look at rebounding percentages, etc. and to see what our chances of improving this year are, but found out that it got bought out and no longer exists! Does anyone know of a good place to locate advanced stats online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I was about to go look at our statsheet.com (billikenball.com) web page to look at rebounding percentages, etc. and to see what our chances of improving this year are, but found out that it got bought out and no longer exists! Does anyone know of a good place to locate advanced stats online? You can probably find some of what you are looking for here..... https://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/stats/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 We also didn't force a lot of missed shots last year. Excellent point. Way too many driving layups. Neufeld can help a little with rim protection but our point guards need to do a much better job of containing dribble penetration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zink Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 You can probably find some of what you are looking for here..... https://www.teamrankings.com/ncb/stats/ Much appreciated! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zink Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 After taking a look at rebounding percentages, this was certainly a problem last year. In years past, the eye test didn't always work because we forced so many misses (opponents often got more offensive rebounds than we did, even if our percntages were similar), but this was definitely not the case this past year. We rebounded 23.8% of our own misses (312th in the country) and 69.4% of our opponent's misses (238th). Considering we rarely send guys to rebound on our own free-throws and our emphasis on transition defense, I think that the difference between O-rebounds and D-rebounds is more down to strategy than skill. But we were still pretty abysmal at defensive rebounding. Hopefully a healthy Reggie and a center with better hands and instincts than Manning will help with this, although the way that we rotate on defense puts more emphasis on rebounding from the guys at the 3 and 4 than the 5 - the 5 almost always steps to the ball and contests on penetration, leaving the other guys to rebound. This is part of the reason Evans was so valuable, and why Milik and Ash led our team in rebounds last year. Loe and Manning were primarily used as help defenders, as Gillmann and Neufeld will be. They need to be able to step out and then quickly turn to gather strong-side rebounds. This requires good footwork, anticipation, and quick hands. Loe wasn't bad at this, Manning was rather terrible, and Gillmann looks more like Loe than Manning in this regard so far, thankfully. I think that more minutes for Reggie at the 4, fewer minutes for Jolly, and no minutes for Manning will make us better rebounders. Roby, Ash and Milik are all above-average rebounders at their positions as well, which should help. Finally, being able to stay in front of our men and avoiding multiple rotations in the same possession will automatically improve our rebounding, as people won't be scrambling to pick up players who are breezing into the lane. Having fewer minutes from Freshmen should make our defense quite a bit better and ameliorate this aspect of our rebounding woes somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Yes, team rebounding will be a problem. But being say, 205th in team rebounding instead of 305th would make us a better team on both ends of the court. No question about that. Don't get me wrong, I think Neufeld will be a better rebounder than Manning when all is said and done. I just don't know what his minutes will be like early on. The opportunity is certainly there for a big man to step up; I just adhere to the principle that bigs take time. I'm more concerned about his trendline over the season than his average, especially early on. [in Seinfeld voice] He knew how to take the rebound, he just didn't know how to hold the rebound. Well, this certainly made me laugh harder than anything else I've seen all day. Hit me on all intended levels. Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We graduated a 6'11" player, so isn't that kind of a wash? Even if Neufeld will be better in the long run, he's a freshman this year. I think any improvement in rebounding - and there has to be some improvement because it'd be hard to get worse - will come from returning players starting to figure it out more. It just looked like so many of them didn't understand rebounding on a fundamental level. Not sure why you are comparing a part-time player who unfortunately was injured much of his career -- including during his Senior year -- and who never lived up to his potential with that of Neufeld. Yes, they are both 6'11" but not many comparisons thereafter. Last year, whether due to injuries, matchups or not being deemed worthy by Coach Crews, John Manning played 202 minutes during the OOC season of 13 games: 12.53 minutes per game. Reaching his high point of the season with the opening game, Manning played 30 minutes against Rhode Island and then played only 169 more minutes over the next 18 games against the A10 teams: 10.47 minutes per game (199 minutes over 19 games). Also, it should be noted that Manning did not play at all in 5 games and played 5 more games where his minute totals per game were single digits. In fact, Manning did not play at all during our final 2 games. Maybe I drank too much blue Kool-aid but I am expecting Neufeld to play more minutes than Manning did and also I am assuming/expecting/hoping that Neufeld stays healthy all season. If so, Neufeld's rebounding stats (and other stats) should far exceed those of John Manning. Also, this will be Neufeld's second year of post-high school basketball. And for the benefit of anyone interested, here is another link for SLU stats: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/139/saint-louis-billikens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Not sure why you are comparing a part-time player who unfortunately was injured much of his career -- including during his Senior year -- and who never lived up to his potential with that of Neufeld. Yes, they are both 6'11" but not many comparisons thereafter. Maybe I drank too much blue Kool-aid but I am expecting Neufeld to play more minutes than Manning did and also I am assuming/expecting/hoping that Neufeld stays healthy all season. If so, Neufeld's rebounding stats (and other stats) should far exceed those of John Manning. You're totally right. Why on earth would I compare a graduating 6'11" center with an incoming 6'11" center? What was I thinking with such an outrageous comparison?! Do you already know how many minutes Neufeld will play this season? Do you know what type of player he'll be? Do you know the degree to which he'll pan out? Why are you so confident he'll outpace Manning immediately by every measure? What are you basing this on? Could you outline the differences between the two since you feel my comparison is so ridiculous? My point - yet again - is that we're replacing an outgoing senior center with an incoming freshman. It would be unfair to expect a significant increase in production from Manning to Neufeld this season. Yet again, I think Neufeld will be a better player. Yet again, bigs take time to develop. Yet again, I'm aware of Manning's numbers (and the rest of our numbers; did you seriously link our statistics page from ESPN? Do you think I don't know how to find basketball statistics on the internet?). Yet again, if we're going to see much of an increase in rebounding, most of it's going to come from individual improvement from our returning players. We don't have a ton of information, video, scouting reports, etc. on Neufeld and yet people seem to think he's going to be the next great big right out of the gate. There just aren't many instant-impact freshman bigs out there. I hope people can recalibrate their expectations for a freshman big accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 You're totally right. Why on earth would I compare a graduating 6'11" center with an incoming 6'11" center? What was I thinking with such an outrageous comparison?! Do you already know how many minutes Neufeld will play this season? Do you know what type of player he'll be? Do you know the degree to which he'll pan out? Why are you so confident he'll outpace Manning immediately by every measure? What are you basing this on? Could you outline the differences between the two since you feel my comparison is so ridiculous? My point - yet again - is that we're replacing an outgoing senior center with an incoming freshman. It would be unfair to expect a significant increase in production from Manning to Neufeld this season. Yet again, I think Neufeld will be a better player. Yet again, bigs take time to develop. Yet again, I'm aware of Manning's numbers (and the rest of our numbers; did you seriously link our statistics page from ESPN? Do you think I don't know how to find basketball statistics on the internet?). Yet again, if we're going to see much of an increase in rebounding, most of it's going to come from individual improvement from our returning players. We don't have a ton of information, video, scouting reports, etc. on Neufeld and yet people seem to think he's going to be the next great big right out of the gate. There just aren't many instant-impact freshman bigs out there. I hope people can recalibrate their expectations for a freshman big accordingly. We've never had a 6'10 225lb freshman who could jump in the 20 years I've been watching Billiken basketball. I think the expectation should be a little higher than John Manning, on that basis alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 We've never had a 6'10 225lb freshman who could jump in the 20 years I've been watching Billiken basketball. I think the expectation should be a little higher than John Manning, on that basis alone. Baniak was a 4-star recruit and solid dunker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Recent SLU centers who got minutes as a freshman..... Loe 3.5 rpg Remekun 1.8 Thompson 2.5 Ian 1.5 Heinrich 3.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 He had some sweet dunks in the FIBA tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 What about willie reed? He seemed to be able to jump a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Pistol, I agree it is not fair to compare a graduating Senior Center with an incoming Freshman Center. But I will be both surprised and disappointed if Neufeld is incapable of playing better than Manning and to contribute more to the team in his Freshman year than Manning did in his Senior year. And yes, I also expect him to play better and contribute more to the team than Lancona did last year. I agree that Manning had injuries that probably prevented him to contribute more to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted October 14, 2015 Author Share Posted October 14, 2015 Baniak was a 4-star recruit and solid dunker.Not quite 6'10 but I agree that he had a solid build as a freshman and could jump.Reed wasn't 6'10 or even 200 lb as a freshman. Kid could jump though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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