OT- Cuonzo Martin to Cal

[Iggy]

nearly 38 million documented,

And nearly another 38 million un-documented.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I won't debate the better school and better location, but the money isn't true.

Montgomery was being paid about half of what Buzz was getting at Marquette.

I'd argue better recruiting ground as well. Marquette has always been able to pull from Chicago. I'd say the Midwest in General is better recruiting ground than Mid California.

Cal recruits heavily from LA and the Bay Area, two major population areas, and also from Sacramento, which is about the size of St. Louis.

[Bay Area Billiken]

And nearly another 38 million un-documented.

LOL- note why I said "documented."

Actually, California was estimated to have 2.6 million undocumented in 2010, more than the entire population of a number of other States in the Union, 23% of all undocumented nationwide.

Your point is well taken.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I don't think Buzz was making what was claimed that he was making at Marquette. I don't believe he would have took a $500,000 pay cut to go to VA Tech. Montgomery made $250,000 in base pay last year, he earned a $500,000 retention bonus, and he earned $1.25 million as a talent fee. That totals $2 million and does not include money from camps and clinics or any extra money he received when he signed an extension in 2012.

http://best.berkeley.edu/~aagogino/Budget_Crises/IA/Coaches/Montgomery_2014.pdf

Cuonzo's contract terms at Cal at last look were still undisclosed, other than a 5 year contract.

It is pretty obvious he wanted out of Tennessee, one way or the other, and I can't blame him given that climate.

He will get some time at Cal. The cupboard is not dry out here. But ultimately, even at Cal, it comes down to winning.

[Clock_Tower]

99% of people would say Marquette is a much better job than Cal. And it is

Then put me in with the 1%. Marquette (just like GTown, St. John, etc.) had a good argument as to superiority -- they were members of the Beast. Now, the NBE is nowhere close to the Beast and, frankly, is just not as good as the PAC 10. And who can ever argue against taking the job at Indiana but I'd suggest that the timing of the breakup of the Beast made that an even easier decision for Crean to leave Marquette. Sure, IU is better than Marquette but sometimes coaches pass up better jobs/or don't put their name out b/c they want the comfort of staying put, not uprooting their family, moving, children/schooling issues... Buzz left for the same reasons - Marquette has fallen as their conference affiliation has fallen.

And as to the NBE, I hope our Bills get invited and that we switch. At the same time, the addition of SLU, UD, Richmond, VCU and/or any combination would not make the NBE better than the PAC 10. Unless the NBE or the A10 goes on a proactive, radical plan (something along the lines of increasing its numbers to 18 or 24 with inclusions of schools from Gonzaga to SLU to the better A10 schools if the NBE drives the bus), then I too fear the non-football schools (including Marquette, GTown, SLU, etc.) will all become second tier schools.

[sludevil]

Just to throw some numbers out there:

Cal has made the NCAA tournament 18 times, with a total record of 20-18 and 3 final fours. Marquette has made the NCAA tournament 31 times, with a total record of 41-32 and 3 final fours. Cal has 3 alumni currently in the NBA; Marquette has 7.

I think, up to this point, Marquette has clearly been the better basketball program. (And I agree that it's important to maintain the distinction here between university and basketball program.) Cal has a lot of potential - from resources to brand strength to recruiting territory to weather/location - but it has mostly failed to realize that potential.

Of course, things may be different moving forward, as the divide between the NBE and BCS conferences widens.

[kshoe]

The thing that is weird to me is that Martin turned down the Marquette job about two weeks ago when Cal likely wasn't even on his radar. Cal had been flirting with Mack and others before eventually going with Martin.

I can't imagine that when he turned down the Marquette job that Martin had the foresight to know Cal would be his for the taking. Makes me wonder if something happened at Tennessee after he turned down Marquette to make this happen.

[slufan13]

The thing that is weird to me is that Martin turned down the Marquette job about two weeks ago when Cal likely wasn't even on his radar. Cal had been flirting with Mack and others before eventually going with Martin.

I can't imagine that when he turned down the Marquette job that Martin had the foresight to know Cal would be his for the taking. Makes me wonder if something happened at Tennessee after he turned down Marquette to make this happen.

Or that there was something about Marquette that he didn't like.

I agree though that something easily could have come up.

[slu72]

I read that deadspin piece and the players comments. You would have thought he would have jumped at the MU job just to get the hell out of Knoxville. Sounds like he had zero support. Raises the question in my mind, what is wrong at MU? They lose a coach to a virtual non entity in the ACC. Can't land a guy who sounds like he was about to be tarred and feathered by the fans, and was getting no support from his boss. Something smells up in Milwaukee and it's not the brats and beer. My best guess is it has to do with the NBE. They may not be perceived to be such a big deal after all. Maybe the A10 and the Catholic 7 should have got together and formed a real power conference of about 16 team, by adding the powers and cutting out the losers.

[brianstl]

Just to throw some numbers out there:

Cal has made the NCAA tournament 18 times, with a total record of 20-18 and 3 final fours. Marquette has made the NCAA tournament 31 times, with a total record of 41-32 and 3 final fours. Cal has 3 alumni currently in the NBA; Marquette has 7.

I think, up to this point, Marquette has clearly been the better basketball program. (And I agree that it's important to maintain the distinction here between university and basketball program.) Cal has a lot of potential - from resources to brand strength to recruiting territory to weather/location - but it has mostly failed to realize that potential.

Of course, things may be different moving forward, as the divide between the NBE and BCS conferences widens.

I think Marquette is a better basketball program and clearly has the better basketball history over the last 50 years. That said, Cal is the better job of the two and has been for a while.

Marquette has a better basketball program than a lot of schools that have a more desirable head coaching job. Texas, Oregon, Oklahoma, Purdue, Vanderbilt, Virginia and Notre Dame for example.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I was told this morning re a San Francisco Chronicle story that I have not yet read myself (SF Chronicle requires a subscription), that Cal's AD, Sandy Barbour favored existing Cal's Associate Head Coach, whom the retiring Coach Mike Montgomery, endorsed, as did many players. But the Cal Chancellor and Vice-Chancellor wanted Cuonzo.

Just to throw some numbers out there:

Cal has made the NCAA tournament 18 times, with a total record of 20-18 and 3 final fours. Marquette has made the NCAA tournament 31 times, with a total record of 41-32 and 3 final fours. Cal has 3 alumni currently in the NBA; Marquette has 7.

I think, up to this point, Marquette has clearly been the better basketball program. (And I agree that it's important to maintain the distinction here between university and basketball program.) Cal has a lot of potential - from resources to brand strength to recruiting territory to weather/location - but it has mostly failed to realize that potential.

Of course, things may be different moving forward, as the divide between the NBE and BCS conferences widens.

Those numbers are skewed. This is much like the Butler/Creighton argument vs. SLU.

For many of those NCAA Tournament years, Marquette was an Independent. The NCAA Tournament was a smaller field and well into the 1970's only took the conference champion from each conference. Cal was in the then Pac-8, which also included its fellow UC, as in UCLA of Coach John Wooden, the Wizard of Westwood. The same issue applies to USC when assessing its Basketball program over the years.

UCLA has 11 National Championships in Men's Basketball, and 10 of them were under Coach Wooden between 1964 and 1975.

As an Independent, Marquette did not have a UCLA standing in its NCAA Tournament way as a door block. I am definitely not saying Cal was better than Marquette during those years, because I don't think Cal was better then. I'm only questioning those numbers.

But at this point in time, there is no doubt to me that Cal is a better Basketball coaching job than is the sinking Marquette ship. Cal's retiring Coach Mike Montgomery was a well respected coach on the West Coast for sure, if not nationally. Cal, as the flagship of the University of California system, has a huge and influential alumni network.

I do caution what my friend and former colleague, a former Cal Bears cheerleader herself, used to tell me after yet another Golden Bear tragic loss: "But we're an academic school, Mr. ******." That can be an issue at Berkeley, its football team's graduation rate notwithstanding.

[Bay Area Billiken]

I read that deadspin piece and the players comments. You would have thought he would have jumped at the MU job just to get the hell out of Knoxville. Sounds like he had zero support. Raises the question in my mind, what is wrong at MU? They lose a coach to a virtual non entity in the ACC. Can't land a guy who sounds like he was about to be tarred and feathered by the fans, and was getting no support from his boss. Something smells up in Milwaukee and it's not the brats and beer. My best guess is it has to do with the NBE. They may not be perceived to be such a big deal after all. Maybe the A10 and the Catholic 7 should have got together and formed a real power conference of about 16 team, by adding the powers and cutting out the losers.

Combining the C7 with the A10, or at least the best of the A10, was a good idea. Except the C7 saw itself as above the A10 and would have none of it, and therefore spawned what is in essence a startup league, the NBE. The NBE tries to say it is the Big East. At the NBE Tournament game I saw at MSG there were quizzes on the scoreboard about the Old Big East, the glory days. The NBE may have bought the Big East name, and the rights to MSG for its post-season tournament. And common perception in the New York media tried to equate the NBE to the Big East.

But it is pretty clear that the NBE is not the Old Big East in reality, perception notwithstanding. Still, my hope is that SLU gets invited and accepts an invitation to the NBE. I think that is the best place for SLU overall.

I suspect that significant startup costs could have been avoided by simply merging the C7 into the existing A10.