sludevil Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It looks like financial need is met 100% with scholarships/grants. Not a bad deal if you can get it: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/types-aid/scholarships-grants Covering 100% of Your Demonstrated NeedBecause Harvard is committed to affordability, our scholarships are designed to completely cover your demonstrated financial need. Here is our process: First we determine your award by establishing your parent contribution. Then we factor in student employment and any outside awardsyou’ve received. Your remaining need will be covered by scholarship funds. These awards come from a variety of sources, including Harvard endowment funds, gifts from alumni, general tuition revenues, and federal and state grants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The Ivy League needs athletes for all of their sports, a difficult challenge since they do not offer athletic scholarships. So the coaches find "very good" students that can play a sport, preferably that very good student can also pay tuition and is happy to get into the Ivy League instead of another top flight institution. So, a guy with financial means will pay tuition to get to go to Yale to play (baseball for example) instead of a scholarship to State U. A way to get into the Ivy League. For high profile sports like basketball, some are now giving more leeway, so I would think that Harvard has been a bit more aggressive finding athletes that 1) are not really "very good" students but good enough to squeek through school and 2) are financially needy and / or a minority, so they qualify for need based subsidies / free tuition. They do not give academic scholarships to athletes. This information comes from somewhat recent direct experience. Wait a minute - a coach finds solid students who want to go to an Ivy League school and simply do not recruit any and all athletes - this is what I have been saying the service academies do when they recruit - ergo to say you can not recruit to a West Point is just silly - you find solid students who have an interest in a West Point education, I know this is not easy but the same holds true for Ivy League schools - you just have to be targeted in who you recruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I believe it was the Wall Street Journal that had an article stating that something like 95% of Harvard students pay little or nothing due to their 20 billion dollar endowment. 95%? I do not think so. A large percentage pay full tuition, sharp kids that also have enough money, many come from charter / alumni / connected well to do families. Then the quota of minorities and needy and combination needy/athletes receive need based tuition rates, mostly pay nothing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 95%? I do not think so. A large percentage pay full tuition, sharp kids that also have enough money, many come from charter / alumni / connected well to do families. Then the quota of minorities and needy and combination needy/athletes receive need based tuition rates, mostly pay nothing at all. Not true, the Harvard endowment took a very heavy hit 2008, this caused them to cancel / delay and ultimately shrink down mega plans for the development of extensive Harvard porperty accross the rive in Allston (next to the B school and the sports facities). Presidents changed, etc... Harvard is a very large enterprise with a very large endowment but also with an enormous level of fixed expenses and tens of thousands of people in their payroll in one way or the other. They may make adjustments and even give a free ride to someone here and there but only if they decide to do so, this is not a blanket policy. They lend a lot of money to students and expect repayment, for it. They also tend to pay their employees below the local norm salaries (or used to do so) which caused a proliferation of stickers in various places saying "We cannot eat prestige." The finances of Harvard are complex and if they determine you or your parents are to pay, they will not give you a full grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Harvard endowment: http://www.hmc.harvard.edu/investment-management/performance-history.html During the financial crisis, dropped from a high of over $35 billion down to about $25 billion. Currently sitting at about $32 billion (which, for what it's worth, is a pretty underwhelming return over the last few years). For comparison, Marquette's endowment is $457.8 million and Duke's is $6 billion. I don't have the most recent numbers on SLU, but I believe it's sitting at a little over $900 million. Also: re: what Harvard students are paying, see http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579351282942121644 "To offset the high price, the school allows students whose families make $65,000 or less a year to pay no tuition, and 60% of the student body is on financial aid. Taking such assistance into account, she says, students on financial aid pay an average of $12,000 a year." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Update: Malek Harris has decommitted from Marquette, may follow Buzz to Va Tech. Ruh-roh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Update: Malek Harris has decommitted from Marquette, may follow Buzz to Va Tech. Ruh-roh. He never signed a loi. What was up with that? Seems like kids normaly only pull that move when the coach is on the hot seat. Williams wasn't on the hot seat in the November signing period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 He never signed a loi. What was up with that? Seems like kids normaly only pull that move when the coach is on the hot seat. Williams wasn't on the hot seat in the November signing period. That's a good point. Maybe he knew (or suspected?) Buzz wouldn't be sticking around forever? (Someone else in this thread mentioned possible future NCAA sanctions for Marquette.) Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me: it still feels like we're not being told something. You don't leave a quality basketball school for Va Tech - and take a pay cut in the process - unless you have a really good reason for doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's a good point. Maybe he knew (or suspected?) Buzz wouldn't be sticking around forever? (Someone else in this thread mentioned possible future NCAA sanctions for Marquette.) Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me: it still feels like we're not being told something. You don't leave a quality basketball school for Va Tech - and take a pay cut in the process - unless you have a really good reason for doing so. I read MUScoop, and one of their compliance people (poster name was rulesgal) put a statement that there are no sanctions coming. Which tells me that Marquette will be the next SMU real soon. (maybe a little overdramatic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 New Marquette basketball coach Steve Wojciechowski made assistant Chris Carrawell his first hire on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I read MUScoop, and one of their compliance people (poster name was rulesgal) put a statement that there are no sanctions coming. Which tells me that Marquette will be the next SMU real soon. (maybe a little overdramatic). Probably/possibly unrelated, but didn't Marquette's President also leave unexpectedly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukeebill Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 I forget why he left but they just hired the uw Milwaukee chancellor as their new president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 New Marquette basketball coach Steve Wojciechowski made assistant Chris Carrawell his first hire on Monday. Always found it odd that Carrawell never recruits St. Louis. Duke has a decent alumni base in this city. Just never made sense to me that none of our big recruits over the years went with Carrawell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Harvard endowment: http://www.hmc.harvard.edu/investment-management/performance-history.html During the financial crisis, dropped from a high of over $35 billion down to about $25 billion. Currently sitting at about $32 billion (which, for what it's worth, is a pretty underwhelming return over the last few years). For comparison, Marquette's endowment is $457.8 million and Duke's is $6 billion. I don't have the most recent numbers on SLU, but I believe it's sitting at a little over $900 million. Also: re: what Harvard students are paying, see http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579351282942121644 "To offset the high price, the school allows students whose families make $65,000 or less a year to pay no tuition, and 60% of the student body is on financial aid. Taking such assistance into account, she says, students on financial aid pay an average of $12,000 a year." Come on Sludevil not having to pay tuition beyond a certain limit has nothing to do with loan repayment. Financial aid is just a means to allow worthy students to attend schools they cannot afford by adjusting what their parents (or the students themselves) have to pay while they are students. Financial aid does not eliminate the requirement from paying full tuition, except for the portion of the financial aid that the school awards as grants. There is a big difference between paying now and paying later. When a school says "students on financial aid pay an average of $12,000 in tuition a year" it means the average student pays that amount while they are attending the school, it says nothing about how much of the aid is borrowed or granted. Whatever the student has to pay after graduation depends on what percentage of the student's aid is in grants and what percentage of the student's aid is in loans. If you are a kid and want to attend one of the IVYs on financial aid be warned that the IVY alumni sites are full of acid / bitter comments from alumni that got a degree on some field that just does not pay much out in the cold world and who have trouble paying their financial aid loans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Come on Sludevil not having to pay tuition beyond a certain limit has nothing to do with loan repayment. Financial aid is just a means to allow worthy students to attend schools they cannot afford by adjusting what their parents (or the students themselves) have to pay while they are students. Financial aid does not eliminate the requirement from paying full tuition, except for the portion of the financial aid that the school awards as grants. There is a big difference between paying now and paying later. When a school says "students on financial aid pay an average of $12,000 in tuition a year" it means the average student pays that amount while they are attending the school, it says nothing about how much of the aid is borrowed or granted. Whatever the student has to pay after graduation depends on what percentage of the student's aid is in grants and what percentage of the student's aid is in loans. If you are a kid and want to attend one of the IVYs on financial aid be warned that the IVY alumni sites are full of acid / bitter comments from alumni that got a degree on some field that just does not pay much out in the cold world and who have trouble paying their financial aid loans. Did you read the other links I posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yes, I did, they are the usual Harvard publications (digital) regarding their financial status and student aid. They say basically what I say but they make it look prettier, you do not have to pay above your level of need and the like. They do talk about possibility (not guarantee) of getting grant aid, etc... What they left unsaid is what I spelled for you in my post. Tuition is tuition and it may be deferred (as with a loan) to get you to attend school and while you are a student, but it will not be waived. That means that if you get any loans you will pay them after graduation. After all, they (Harvard) is giving a lot of credit to someone (the student) which has no credit, THAT is how they aid you, not by covering your tuition out their endowment. How clear do you want this to be? Another thing, if they were to publish their financial aid descriptions the way I just did, who would like to get a degree in a low paying occupation and still owe Harvard a quarter million dollars (at a favorable interest rate) after graduation? The quarter million includes living expenses and assumes aid primarily as loans, with parental inability to pay tuition, ie less than $65,000 family income. Surely the more the family pays, the less the amount of loans; and the more grants you get the less amount of loans. It is simple financial math, no one unless you have something Harvard really really wants, goes in 100% tuition free. Oh, and keep in mind that they are known to turn down applicants with perfect SAT scores in favor of people they are interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yes, I did, they are the usual Harvard publications (digital) regarding their financial status and student aid. They say basically what I say but they make it look prettier, you do not have to pay above your level of need and the like. They do talk about possibility (not guarantee) of getting grant aid, etc... What they left unsaid is what I spelled for you in my post. Tuition is tuition and it may be deferred (as with a loan) to get you to attend school and while you are a student, but it will not be waived. That means that if you get any loans you will pay them after graduation. After all, they (Harvard) is giving a lot of credit to someone (the student) which has no credit, THAT is how they aid you, not by covering your tuition out their endowment. How clear do you want this to be? I don't know, how clear do you need it to be? The links I posted are pretty explicit: Harvard determines your parent's expected contribution and covers 100% of the difference with scholarships/grants. Those with parental income less than $65k have an expected contribution of $0, and so are fully covered by scholarships. Those with parental income between $65k and $150k are expected to contribute between 0% and 10% of their income, with the balance covered by scholarships. Those with parental income greater than $150k "will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances" - and, again, the balance is covered by scholarships. These income levels may be adjusted if the parents hold significant assets. And, as part of their scholarship package, students receiving scholarships may be asked to work an on-campus job. What isn't explicit is whether the above calculus applies only to tuition, or whether it covers the full cost of attendance. (And, admittedly, this may be a significant discrepancy.) However, this link (https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance) seems to indicate that scholarships may cover costs up to and including tuition and fees, room and board, and an allowance for travel and personal expenses. Loans only ever enter the picture in satisfying the parent's expected contribution. So, for example, if your parents are making $150k and are expected to contribute 10% (or $15k/year), then the student may take out loans to cover that amount. The fact that only 60% of Harvard kids are on financial aid (and, among that population, the average payment is $12k) simply indicates that a lot of well-off people attend Harvard. Which is, of course, not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Believe what you may, I have two daughters with 6 figure student loan debt, which goes on top of my payments. One is an MD, one is a lawyer, they can pay the loans. And no, they did not go to Harvard, they went to other top of the line schools with similar brochures. I myself did go to Harvard for four years, grad school. This was long ago and I had big loans to pay afterwards too. Believe what you may. You will be surprised when you find out who attends Harvard and how well off they are or are not, you will be surprised at the number of WASPS you see or do not see. It is not what you expect. You will also be surprised when later on in life you find Harvard graduates driving cabs or working as concierges in hotels. I wish you a good experience and happy payments when they come, I am pretty sure they will come. By the way, think of all of these publications you are reading as advertisement. Advertisement or marketing is the science of selling by making the thing sold look really good. It is used essentially everywhere, in car sales and political campaigns alike. A reverse of advertisement, that is making something (someone in this case) look real bad, is also widely used in political campaigns. Have fun in your journey through life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Believe what you may, I have two daughters with 6 figure student loan debt, which goes on top of my payments. One is an MD, one is a lawyer, they can pay the loans. And no, they did not go to Harvard, they went to other top of the line schools with similar brochures. I myself did go to Harvard for four years, grad school. This was long ago and I had big loans to pay afterwards too. Believe what you may. You will be surprised when you find out who attends Harvard and how well off they are or are not, you will be surprised at the number of WASPS you see or do not see. It is not what you expect. You will also be surprised when later on in life you find Harvard graduates driving cabs or working as concierges in hotels. I wish you a good experience and happy payments when they come, I am pretty sure they will come. By the way, think of all of these publications you are reading as advertisement. Advertisement or marketing is the science of selling by making the thing sold look really good. It is used essentially everywhere, in car sales and political campaigns alike. A reverse of advertisement, that is making something (someone in this case) look real bad, is also widely used in political campaigns. Have fun in your journey through life. Well, the Harvard website is pretty explicit and transparent about what you'll be expected to contribute (in loans or otherwise). (This program began in 2004 and did not fully resemble today's program until 2007). Best of luck to you as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Wojo hired failed Drake coach and former Boone County Correctional officer Mark Phelps as another assistant today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 More fallout: Ahmed Hill (#54, ESPN) is granted his release from Marquette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.