DeSmetBilliken Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Would Berry really upgrade our talent level? Did we lose in the tournament because we lacked a player of his talent? Some of these local players leave St. Louis because they believe they are better than they are and SLU is not good enough for them. Berry still may not want to come here but if he does, I hope the coaching staff passes on him. Better transfers than Berry will be available, and already are. I haven't seen Berry or any of the incoming freshmen play, other than some video clips or televised games in the case of Miles Reynolds. My general thought as to whether Berry would upgrade our talent level, based on the few clips I saw, and his recruiting rankings (I know, they may not have much meaning), would be that he would be a talent upgrade. Butler listed him at 6-10, which might have been pretty close to accurate. I don't know how good of an outside shooter he is, but I saw some clips of him driving from the arc to the hoop and looking pretty comfortable doing it. I'd say that the list of SLU players that I've seen in 25 with Berry's combination of height and mobility would be a very short list. I also don't think it's fair to determine whether a player is worth bringing in based on if lacking such a player caused our loss to Louisville. The caliber of player who would have single-handedly caused us to win is a very high level player, if one even exists. I like to think of myself as optimistic when it comes to recruiting, but if you're expecting any player we bring in to be that level immediately, you're probably going to be disappointed. I don't claim to have any inside knowledge as to Berry's decision to attend Butler, but I have read things. It sounds like he just didn't click with Majerus, did click with Stevens, and really liked what Butler offered as a private university. While Butler had just gone to back-to-back NCAA title games, they were still playing in the Horizon League when Berry gave them his verbal commitment in the fall of his junior year. It really sounded like he found what he thought was a really good fit for him and went with it. This didn't sound like a deal where he had the goal of going to the most prestigious, big-name program that would have him, and wasn't going to to to a school unless they were in a BCS conference. Finally, I would suggest not making a big deal of Berry's stats this year at Butler. Not that they were good, but players at the 4 and 5 positions tend to take a little longer to get comfortable in the college game. As another frame of reference, Ash Yacoubou averaged under 3 ppg for a Villanova team that probably rivaled this year's Butler team in futility, and we seem to think Ash is going to be a very nice player for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Take what I write as coming from someone with very limited knowledge of basketball as a game. However this lack of knowledge does not mean I cannot count. I think it would be important for the team to stress balance in the recruiting classes, rather than having a big bunch of seniors graduating every 4 years followed by a big bunch of inexperienced freshmen playing hard to catch up. I would therefore be in favor of using the last scholarship to get a transfer that can play and contribute right away but play for only a limited amount of time. I think this, just like getting Wellmer to a prep school next year, will even out the program's classes to some degree. The work of bringing class sizes to a more even level cannot be done rapidly, it will require judgement and culling of kids already in that are not doing very well after a year or two as well as spreading the scholarships available in certain years (like 2014 with its 6 scholarships) by the use of transfers with limited eligibility, etc... That said, I am not competent to judge who should or should not be taken in and or who should be culled out of the program or what position we need to build up the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Idk why people still want him, the only reason id take berry is bc of his family tree. Remember he did choose against us, and now since everything went bad with butler hes jumping ship, no way would I offer him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Is Nolan Berry what we need? He will have the benefit of becoming eligible when Manning and Grandy graduate. But we have a lot of bigs we are committed to in the pipeline. Is he going to be a project? I only watched play limited minutes usually at the end on a bad Butler team and it kind looks that way. What do we need? It became painfully evident we needed a dead-eye zone busting type guard or small forward. How many times did we get zoned up with the middle clogged up and the offense just shut-down. Also someone to compliment McBroom. The reason I think his 3 point production went down toward end of the season is that they figured him out. I would rather see someone come that has eligibility right away (3 year graduate) or a jr college transfer that can fit that need. Also, we coming off 3 consecutive NCAA appearances, that should count for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Nobody would want a 6'10 200 pound player that got 2 minutes a game for a 14-17 team if he wasn't from St. Louis. There are better transfers out there who can make more of an impact for us. Don't want or need Berry unless there is literally no one else out there who is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Imo he gets no special consideration for being from St. Louis or for being Easy Ed's grandson. He had that chance and he passed it by. He was an 18 year old legal adult who made a decision, not a kid. If he's good enough and the coaching staff believes he fits and he wants to come than bring him on, if not pass. We have to believe he's better than what we have on the roster or committed, not just as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Agreed. Any talk of cutting a senior to be is very poor taste. I'd think the coaching staff would only want berry if they aren't sold on either Reggie or Tanner (I highly doubt it) or on whelmer. Shoe. You know full well that Crews will not cut Grandy Glaze. Call my suggestion poor taste if you want, but my point is for us to re-evaluate our roster and not just to sift through other program's trash cans. Not just this year, but every Spring we take another gulp of local high school kool-aid and then make justifications as to why we should offer these guys who already turned us down (or whom we turned down). As to Glaze, I would tell him that we are in the middle of youth movement, that his time was this past year, that he didn't take seize the opportunity and that his playing time will be next to nothing next year. If he wants to stay and be a practice player and an energy guy in practice, then fine, he is already a Senior. Otherwise, I hope we have seen the last of him. In short, we just cannot have sustained success waiting/hoping for guys to have one (1) good year in college ball -- JB (didn't really happen), Manning (hope he finally does next year) and Glaze (hoping for next year)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 JMs a very serviceable 5. Problem is who backs him up next year? Would love to see us land a JUCO big w that final scholie. As stated many times before, easier said than done. Those types are rarer than hens teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicCityBilliken Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Shoe. You know full well that Crews will not cut Grandy Glaze. Call my suggestion poor taste if you want, but my point is for us to re-evaluate our roster and not just to sift through other program's trash cans. Not just this year, but every Spring we take another gulp of local high school kool-aid and then make justifications as to why we should offer these guys who already turned us down (or whom we turned down). As to Glaze, I would tell him that we are in the middle of youth movement, that his time was this past year, that he didn't take seize the opportunity and that his playing time will be next to nothing next year. If he wants to stay and be a practice player and an energy guy in practice, then fine, he is already a Senior. Otherwise, I hope we have seen the last of him. In short, we just cannot have sustained success waiting/hoping for guys to have one (1) good year in college ball -- JB (didn't really happen), Manning (hope he finally does next year) and Glaze (hoping for next year)... Am I missing something? Why would we even consider cutting Grandy? He is a senior, cutting a freshman Jared is one thing but a senior? Even Cal wouldn't do that. If we did take Berry or anyone else we still have a vacant scholarship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudiamus Igitur Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 You folks are nuts if you don't think that we could use him. Also, as far as the Butler choice, why are you knocking a kid who wasn't even recruited by SLU? Brad Stevens was a dynamic young talent that had a great recruiting ability. I also tried to follow Berry's career at Butler but to no avail. I love the way everyone thinks that our talent level at the bigs is set. That is laughable. So, you're good with John Manning (likeable, but not very mobile, and foul city) Grandy Glaze (the hardest working man in show business - unfortunately not really a scoring option), Tanner Lancona (will probably grow into a good player, but just don't see him banging down low), Austin Gillman (someone give me a sandwich because I am going to get hammered - or better yet, redshirt me), and Brett Jolly (will be great from the outside, and also still needs time to grow). Berry would be a great get. The kid is a competitor, a Jesuit, and could be another big in the Conklin mold. I'll take him any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudiamus Igitur Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Nobody would want a 6'10 200 pound player that got 2 minutes a game for a 14-17 team if he wasn't from St. Louis. There are better transfers out there who can make more of an impact for us. Don't want or need Berry unless there is literally no one else out there who is interested. Oh, and I also love how you folks think that St. Louis is some sort of a destination city for star basketball players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Shoe. You know full well that Crews will not cut Grandy Glaze. Call my suggestion poor taste if you want, but my point is for us to re-evaluate our roster and not just to sift through other program's trash cans. Not just this year, but every Spring we take another gulp of local high school kool-aid and then make justifications as to why we should offer these guys who already turned us down (or whom we turned down). As to Glaze, I would tell him that we are in the middle of youth movement, that his time was this past year, that he didn't take seize the opportunity and that his playing time will be next to nothing next year. If he wants to stay and be a practice player and an energy guy in practice, then fine, he is already a Senior. Otherwise, I hope we have seen the last of him. In short, we just cannot have sustained success waiting/hoping for guys to have one (1) good year in college ball -- JB (didn't really happen), Manning (hope he finally does next year) and Glaze (hoping for next year)... This is about the dumbest post I've ever read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Nobody would want a 6'10 200 pound player that got 2 minutes a game for a 14-17 team if he wasn't from St. Louis. There are better transfers out there who can make more of an impact for us. Don't want or need Berry unless there is literally no one else out there who is interested. Actually, I think that is working against in how people judge him in this case. If he hadn't spurned us people would be drooling for this kid. People would be talking about how the coach didn't use him right, how high he was rated out of high school, and how he would prosper if he ended up at SLU. You know, sort of like he how we talked about Ash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I love how people are shitting themselves over Ash but Berry is a no-go. Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Oh, and I also love how you folks think that St. Louis is some sort of a destination city for star basketball players. You didn't understand my post AT ALL. I said that if Berry wasn't from St. Louis we wouldn't even be considering him as an option. Berry was not ranked in the final ESPN Top 100 for 2013 recruits. I highly doubt people here would be talking up some 6'10 200 pound kid who played 2 minutes a game for a 16-16 Oregon State team that was from Washington. But because everyone saw Berry play in high school and because he's from St. Louis, people want to make him out to be some great fit for us and a great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludevil Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yeah, Glaze may be destined to ride the bench, but you don't cut the kid. Regardless of any short-term benefit, that would probably be the fastest and most effective way to completely screw up our future recruiting. We would be the school that pulled the senior's scholarship. Recruits (and, more importantly, their parents) probably wouldn't like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Actually, I think that is working against in how people judge him in this case. If he hadn't spurned us people would be drooling for this kid. People would be talking about how the coach didn't use him right, how high he was rated out of high school, and how he would prosper if he ended up at SLU. You know, sort of like he how we talked about Ash. If Nolan Berry wasn't Easy Ed's grandson and he was from somewhere random like Nevada, would anyone on here be talking about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudiamus Igitur Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Glaze will not get cut. Can we please move on from that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I love how people are shitting themselves over Ash but Berry is a no-go. Ok. Yacoubou was a higher rated recruit. He played for a better team. He got passed up by players on Villanova that were able to lead the team to a top 10 ranking and number 2 seed this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 If Nolan Berry wasn't Easy Ed's grandson and he was from somewhere random like Nevada, would anyone on here be talking about him? Yes, they would. How many kids have we got in our history that were ranked in the top 30 power forwards by Rivals? The answer is zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudiamus Igitur Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Kind of sounds a bit like this kid - Majerus said he was the only coach to offer Conklin, from Eugene, a scholarship. The player made all-conference, plays for a team with a 24-6 record, and is getting it done in the classroom, too. I'll take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenLaw Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 A 17 year old kid was trying to make the best college decision he kid and a bunch of adults on a message board choose to hold a grudge against him because of it. Always baffles me. It used to baffle me. After posting here off-and-on for the past two years, it doesn't really anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yacoubou was a higher rated recruit. He played for a better team. He got passed up by players on Villanova that were able to lead the team to a top 10 ranking and number 2 seed this season. No he wasn't Ash was rated by Rivals at 126 and Berry was 120. Ash was rated as the 38th best player at his position and Berry was rated as the 26th best at his. http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Achraf-Yacoubou-99764 http://rivals.yahoo.com/Alabama/basketball/recruiting/player-Nolan-Berry-123743 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Actually, I think that is working against in how people judge him in this case. If he hadn't spurned us people would be drooling for this kid. People would be talking about how the coach didn't use him right, how high he was rated out of high school, and how he would prosper if he ended up at SLU. You know, sort of like he how we talked about Ash. Cam Biedscheid "spurned us" but 95% of the board was drooling for the kid when he left Notre Dame. So, I'm not sure that argument works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Cam Biedscheid "spurned us" but 95% of the board was drooling for the kid when he left Notre Dame. So, I'm not sure that argument works. True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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