Bills_06 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I hate the wait and see approach. It's not like we're some dream school. Yeah Goodwin supposedly said he wants to play here, but if we wait and see and he blows up, maybe he's going to want to go to an Indiana or a Michigan or something. Didn't we get Kwamain on board early and then he was Wisconsin player of the year as a senior and the big boys like Wisconsin and other Big 10 schools came along and wanted him to play for them? Unfortunately I think SLU is a school that you have to offer early and hope it turns out. If Goodwin just doesn't develop, you can let the offer go stale. It may not necessarily be the right thing, but I feel like you gotta do it. I don't think they will wait until after this season though. He has stated that SLU, Creighton and Indiana are recruiting him hardest and none of those 3 have offered and Creighton does have 18 offers out there for 2017. I don't think it's a huge difference if we offered yesterday or we offer in July but I would definitely not be happy if he didn't have an offer from us by the start of the school year. Looking at the schools that have offered, VT has 30 offers out for 2017 already. Most of the other schools except for Illinois State have at least 10 and I think we only still have the 2. Does Crews usually have a time period when he likes to offer a class? I can't recall from previous classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I don't think they will wait until after this season though. He has stated that SLU, Creighton and Indiana are recruiting him hardest and none of those 3 have offered and Creighton does have 18 offers out there for 2017. I don't think it's a huge difference if we offered yesterday or we offer in July but I would definitely not be happy if he didn't have an offer from us by the start of the school year. Looking at the schools that have offered, VT has 30 offers out for 2017 already. Most of the other schools except for Illinois State have at least 10 and I think we only still have the 2. Does Crews usually have a time period when he likes to offer a class? I can't recall from previous classes. An important thing to remember is that those were the 3 schools recruiting him the hardest before the recent date where coaches can now have direct contact with recruits. It could be a completely different situation now for all we know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Sneed was offered after the Nike 100 camp before his junior year. Tyler Cook was also offered before his junior year. Neither offer gained us any advantage whatsoever. If I had to guess, both kids are going to end up at schools who offered them late. Yess and Tatum's connection to the school helped us build meaningful relationships with them early on. Offering early by itself doesn't mean jack. The vast majority of kids don't go to their first offer. I don't know where this mythology comes from. We haven't lost local recruits (Phillip Gilbert, Blake Ahearn, Roosevelt Jones, etc) because we didn't offer them at 16 years old. We didn't offer them at all. If you go to boards of the schools that offered Goodwin, you hear crickets. They are talking about their high priority recruits in 2017, not Goodwin. At this point Mizzou is our most serious competition for him. Schools who offer a ton of kids for a handful of spots are doing that. That's their problem, not ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Sneed was offered after the Nike 100 camp before his junior year. Tyler Cook was also offered before his junior year. Neither offer gained us any advantage whatsoever. If I had to guess, both kids are going to end up at schools who offered them late. Where do you think Sneed and Cook end up? I tend to agree that when you offer does not matter for most recruits, but I do think with local kids that you have to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 An important thing to remember is that those were the 3 schools recruiting him the hardest before the recent date where coaches can now have direct contact with recruits. It could be a completely different situation now for all we know. So you are talking about the last 4 days of recruiting and whether we are still recruiting him the hardest? Unless you are directly connected to the SLU coaching staff or Goodwin himself I doubt anyone knows. People have become obsessed with whether we have offered him or not. The fact that we are one of the 3 recruiting him the hardest is the key fact and I suspect the next time he is on campus he'll get an offer from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Guys remember that time the Tatums took to the media because they didn't think SLU was recruiting Jayson hard enough? Point being - the kid is local. The kid has said he has interest in SLU. The kid is blowing up on the national stage. Why risk it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Isn't Crews MO he doesn't offer right away? He likes to build a relationship with them first to see if they both feel comfortable and then offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I guess the way that we hold off on giving players an offer has to be better than the way 95% of the other programs operate. I mean what do a highly successful recruiters with a track record of on court success like Buzz Williams and Matt Painter know just throwing those offers around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Isn't Crews MO he doesn't offer right away? He likes to build a relationship with them first to see if they both feel comfortable and then offer. Good point. To weaken my own argument I believe this is what happened with Marcus Bartley. And this is why I'm just a MBM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills_06 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Guys remember that time the Tatums took to the media because they didn't think SLU was recruiting Jayson hard enough? Point being - the kid is local. The kid has said he has interest in SLU. The kid is blowing up on the national stage. Why risk it? Yea they mentioned how other coaches from out of town were at more of his games than SLU coaches. However with Goodwin, it sounds like SLU is one of the schools recruiting him hardest currently (or at least as of 3 weeks ago when he said that), Crews just hasn't pulled the trigger on the offer yet which could happen soon. So even if Crews had already offered, your argument of making sure they are still recruiting him hard enough will still be valid because it's a local kid so they have the advantage on attending games. It's not like they can offer and just let their foot off the gas petal on recruiting the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What does offering hurt? All I'm really asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What does offering hurt? All I'm really asking. Is SLU not offering because the coaches need more time to evaluate and are not sure whether he fits in the program? Honestly, if we never offer Goodwin (or months from now indicating we spent more time evaluating) I would be more comfortable with the current situation because that would mean the coaches just didn't see a good fit which is fine. I kind of see this similar to the Tyler Cook recruitment, but we will see if/when SLU offers Goodwin. Many on here were talking up SLU's chances early in the process with Cook because he attended some games and SLU was in contact with him early in the process, but then last spring/summer he receives offers from programs like Kansas, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas State, Virginia Tech, and Tennessee before an offer from SLU, but an offer still came in late July. So it would not have anything to do with the coaching staff needing more time to evaluate him, but rather the coaching staff just waited to offer after these other programs. Why the need to wait until late July? Maybe it doesn't matter at all (finalists for Cook include Mizzou and Florida who offered shortly after SLU and Arkansas who didn't offer until this spring), but I don't understand why the coaching staff is seemingly waiting to offer some of their top recruiting targets compared to other programs. I just feel like Tyler Cook and now Jordan Goodwin have to be somewhat questioning why these high major programs were/are offering them before SLU. Again, maybe it does not matter at all, but with local kids I do think you run the risk of leaving these kids a little frustrated with your program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 In the "carpet bombing scenario", does it become a race to see who commits first? That seems like it could have some unintended consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 In the "carpet bombing scenario", does it become a race to see who commits first? That seems like it could have some unintended consequences. I am not talking about carpet bombing offers. I don't get holding out on an offer on a top 100 kid in your own backyard. That is the kind of stuff that gets used against you later on in the recruiting process and leaves people around the kid with a bad taste in their mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Is he a top 100 kid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Is he a top 100 kid? #55 according to ESPN. http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Maybe it doesn't matter at all (finalists for Cook include Mizzou and Florida who offered shortly after SLU and Arkansas who didn't offer until this spring), but I don't understand why the coaching staff is seemingly waiting to offer some of their top recruiting targets compared to other programs. It's a matter of style. There are schools like Wichita State and Dayton who have traditionally offered their top targets even later than SLU and they're doing just fine. There are more aggressive recruiters who offer a ton of underclassmen. Different strokes for different folks. You've got to coach and recruit who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I am not talking about carpet bombing offers. I don't get holding out on an offer on a top 100 kid in your own backyard. That is the kind of stuff that gets used against you later on in the recruiting process and leaves people around the kid with a bad taste in their mouth. I agree with you on the Goodwin situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crymdg2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'd be willing to bet that ranking goes up even higher if the Eagles play well at the Peach Jam and he continues playing like he has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll put it this way: If I'm the local program and think a local player is good enough for the program, I'm not going to get beat because I offered too late. Or because someone else outworked me. I'm only going to get beat because he just didn't want to come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll put it this way: If I'm the local program and think a local player is good enough for the program, I'm not going to get beat because I offered too late. Or because someone else outworked me. I'm only going to get beat because he just didn't want to come here. Agreed here. Make the kid say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills_06 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll put it this way: If I'm the local program and think a local player is good enough for the program, I'm not going to get beat because I offered too late. Or because someone else outworked me. I'm only going to get beat because he just didn't want to come here. I agree with this but didn't he get his first offer from Illinois at the end of April? So my question is what is offering too late? I would think if it's before Junior year then that would be plenty early. If Crews doesn't offer before mid August, that's when I'll start to worry. Was he ranked in the top 100 before ESPNs recent rankings came out in the last week or so? He seemed like a kid that needed to develop and now clearly has shown he's a player. So with local kids like that, I see two different philosophies. You can recruit and offer early and if he doesn't develop as thought, pull or let the offer go stale, or you can recruit and keep up a relationship while seeing how he develops and then offer. Based on the fact when he only had 2 offers, SLU would be one mentioned as recruiting him in his interviews, I don't think we blew our chances. I still think Crews has plenty of time to offer to still be considered a school that offered early enough. To be clear though, I would have had no problem if SLU would pull the trigger and offer earlier because I don't think there is any big harm in it but I don't think this philosophy will kill our chances as long as it's not too much longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Too late = after everyone else. Doesn't matter if it's a week, month, or year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Develop? as in outside shooting maybe. He was never going to be considered a point guard and had never played there so besides those two aspects and being only 6'3" goodwin doesn't need to develop anything. As I've been saying for months if he develops a good outside make percentage (his shot is fundamentally fine) he will be a top major prospect. Imo at this age he is better than Roosevelt jones was. I say he is the perfect recruit that slu is foolish to not be out front on. The longer we wait the more that will be used against us in negative recruiting by bigger programs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbofive Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I don't understand why the coaching staff is seemingly waiting to offer some of their top recruiting targets compared to other programs. I think the answers can be found 16 seconds into this clip from the American classic, Gummo. Why hasn't SLU offered??? Because "all we are is assh.oles." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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