Best & worst coaching hires

[SLURadioBoy]

The Sporting News ranked the best and worst coaching hires of this offseason. Not to spoil it, but we didn't fare well. Hopefully Travis will get the team back to the tournament in a couple of years and they will be forced to eat crow.

[Billiken Rich]

The Sporting News ranked the best and worst coaching hires of this offseason. Not to spoil it, but we didn't fare well. Hopefully Travis will get the team back to the tournament in a couple of years and they will be forced to eat crow.

That article pretty much summed up my feeling at the time.........

I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

[SLURadioBoy]

I'm with you, Rich. I was not a fan of the hiring at first. I've warmed up to it since though. Ford is very charismatic and is great from a PR standpoint. I have been very excited by his recruiting so far as well. Now, if he can turn all of that into W's and tournament appearances (and finally get us past the second round), I will consider it a home run hire.

[slu72]

Realistically speaking, who could we get out of the bunch rated higher than Ford? Yeah, I liked the guy from SF Austin, but I think he would have waited us out. Same w/ Beard, and, since he left UNLV after a cup of coffee, we'd still be looking. I don't think Drew was really ever in play. His sights were set higher. Going to be interesting to see how he does at Vandy. Is he really another Brad Stevens, or just an average coach from a so so league?

Guys like Dixon, Tubby, and Stallings never would have come here.

At least we got ranked as one of the name programs to be listed. And, really, we should all be elated Jim Crews is gone, since about 4 months ago we were all worried the admin wouldn't pull the plug on that nightmare. Plus, Ford knows he's got something to prove if he ever wants to succeed Calipari.

[TheChosenOne]

Plus, Ford knows he's got something to prove if he ever wants to succeed Calipari.

Do people actually think this is a possibility for Ford?

[White Pelican]

Do people actually think this is a possibility for Ford?

I would think he'd have to do REALLY well here (or elsewhere I guess) for that to ever happen.

[hsmith19]

Somebody (maybe T-Rav himself) wrote in his Wiki article that he was rumored to be in the hunt for the UK job before Billy Gillespie was hired.

[slu72]

He would have to turn us around really quickly no doubt. But to think a UK alum in the coaching biz doesn't aspire to that job is naive. Of course if Calipiri were to leave in the near future, Wildcat fans would be giving a Big Blue welcome to Brad Stevens.

I think Ford's sharp enough to know SLU threw him a lifeline to resurrect his career. He's also young enough to still have the fire in his belly. This is in sharp contrast to Crews who seemed to be in it only to pad his IRA.

[kshoe]

People on this board once worried that crews would leave SLU for Indiana. Don't think we need to be worrying about ford going to UK just yet.

[Old guy]

He would have to turn us around really quickly no doubt. But to think a UK alum in the coaching biz doesn't aspire to that job is naive. Of course if Calipiri were to leave in the near future, Wildcat fans would be giving a Big Blue welcome to Brad Stevens.

I think Ford's sharp enough to know SLU threw him a lifeline to resurrect his career. He's also young enough to still have the fire in his belly. This is in sharp contrast to Crews who seemed to be in it only to pad his IRA.

Oh, I do not think Crews only wanted to pad his IRA. I think he really tried his very best and it was just not good enough.

[TheChosenOne]

But to think a UK alum in the coaching biz doesn't aspire to that job is naive.

Obviously.

[RUBillsFan]

This is not an article. It is a "list"icle designed to generate clicks for the website. The SportingNews is not relevant anymore in today's media.

The listicle doesn't give any kind of criteria for ranking best vs worst. There is a vague reference to amusement park rides and getting fans hopes up only to "fall back down to Earth" when the hire is announced. Therefore, you have to assume the rankings are supposed to be based somewhat on the fan reaction or expectations which would be based on the current state of the program and program history.

The rankings, however, do not bear that out. Because SLU's program under Crews became abysmal and SLU not being in a major conference doesn't have the same prestige or possibly money as some of the other schools listed.

There seem to be 3 main knocks on Ford in the article: mediocre record, poor NCAA tournament performance, and declining attendance at OSU

Mediocre Record?:

Ford is knocked mostly for his overall coaching record being slightly above .500 (278 - 222, .552. However, this doesn't take into account that before OK State he often took over very poor programs before turning things around. Therefore, the first year or three he had poor records through little fault of his own. For example his first 3 years at EKU plus his first year at UMass his record was 38 - 71. If you lop those years off his winning % jumps to a more respectable .614.

More importantly let's look at the career (DI) winning % of some other A10 coaches:

Bob McKillop - Davidson - .621 - This is boosted by years of winning in the mediocre Southern Conference. Before Davidson joined the A-10 his conference winning % was .735 with his OOC winning % was below .500. In fairness, Davidson has done well in the A10 the past 2 years as well.

Archie Miller - Dayton - .676 Very good coach, unfortunately, it is probably a matter of time before moves on. Record also speaks to the state of Dayton's program as a solidly good program, but not really elite.

Jim Ferry - Duquesne - .472

Jeff Neubauer - Fordham - .581 - mostly from his long tenure at EKU (Ohio Valley Conf)

Mike Longergan - GW - .618 - boosted by his time at Vermont (American East)

John Giannini - LaSalle - .504

Dan Hurley - Rhode Island - .538

Chris Mooney - Richmond - .559

Mark Schmidt - St. Bona - .502

Phil Martelli - St. Joes - .596

Derek Kellogg - UMass - .541

Will Wade - VCU - .644 Only 3 years, 1 at VCU, 2 at Chattanooga (Southern Conf).

With the exception of Archie Miller and possibly Martelli (too early for Wade), I would argue that Ford's winning percentage / career resume is more impressive than any other coach in the A10. Most of them padded their winning percentages coaching at the low major level for a long stretch and none have ever coached in a "major" conference.

SLU's overall winning % for the history of the program is .540, so Ford is actually an improvement over that figure.

Poor Performance in NCAAs?

There is also a swipe at Ford for early exits in the NCAAs. Which is valid and the main beef some folks on this board have. Let's look closer at Ford's NCAA history:

2005 w EKU - lost as a #15 to #2 Kentucky by a score of 72-64. An 8 point loss by a #15 seed is actually fairly decent. I'd argue this team achieved slightly better than expected.

2009 w OK St - won as #8 vs #9 Tenn 77-75. Lost in round of 32 to #1 Pitt 84-76. Again I'd argue this team achieved slightly better than expected.

2010 w OK St - lost as #7 to #10 Georgia Tech 64 - 59. No shame in losing as a #7 to the #10 seed in a close game. Slightly worse than expected.

2013 w OK St - lost as a #5 to #12 Oregon 68 -55. SLU fans know a thing or two about this (under seeded) Oregon team as it would trounce #4 SLU in the next round and give #1 Louisville (eventual champ) a tough game. Worse than expected, but not as bad as it looks on paper given how well Oregon played in that tournament.

2014 w OK St - lost as a #9 to #8 Gonzaga 85-77. No shame in losing as the #9 seed.

2015 w OK St - lost as a #9 to #8 Oregon - 79-73. No shame in losing as the #9 seed.

Overall a very poor record (1 - 6), but not as bad compared to expectations. I'd expect his teams to have won maybe 3 or 4 games vs 1. However, most of the games were toss ups and they lost by a small margin. His team performing below expectations record wise could very well just be bad luck in a small sample of games. I'd argue they were never big favorites in any of these games. Also note that Ford did take UMass as a #2 seed in the NIT to the title game, so it is not like he has never had any postseason success.

Ford took over at EKU for the 2000-2001 season and his teams have made 7 NCAA tournaments winning 1 game. SLU has made the NCAAs 3 times since then and won 3 games.

Declining Attendance?:

Finally, Ford is knocked for declining attendace at OSU games. I'd argue the only way he controls this is by winning games and he did win a fair amount at OSU. Marketing and ticket sales people also influence attendance so a decline is not all on Ford. However, he probably deserves some of the blame as he was unable to win at the level of Eddie Sutton. Look at this article on OSU attendance (http://www.pistolsfiringblog.com/oklahoma-state-posts-worst-basketball-attendance-since-gia-expanded/). I'm not interested in the words in the article as much as the graphs and figures. Ford's attendance decline can be explained by the fact that Sutton took OSU to it's peak (Final Four then Sweet 16) shortly before retiring and Ford took over (following two mediocre Sean Sutton years) as that Final Four glow was wearing off. The article also mentions that OSU underwent a major arena rennovation / expansion in 2000. Ford took over in 2008, so the novelty of a "new" area had also worn off by the time Ford took over. Ford also had the misfortune of taking over at OSU the same year that the SuperSonics moved to OKC and became the Thunder. Stillwater is an hour drive from OKC, so a majority of its fan base had a different (better?) basketball option during Ford's tenure. As the Thunder got better OSU's basketball attendance only got worse. You'll also notice that the overall NCAA attendance is also declining. You can hardly blame Ford for college basketball declining in popularity overall.

Given the extremely poor attendance at Chaifetz last year, I'd be shocked if it somehow declines further under Ford and I expect an uptick.

TLDR: The "article" is not very well thought out and the knocks against Ford are not that bad when you consider the circumstances. I think he was a reasonable good hire for SLU.

EDIT: Fixed the name of the school that Jim Ferry coaches.

[Billiken Rich]

Good points and a lot of excuses. The Blues were likely going to clean house after playing good in the regular season and going out early in the playoffs which is what happened to Ford.

I cannot point to a better, can't miss, coach that we could've gotten instead of Ford so don't ask. I also am a big believer that the more times you make the dance, the better chance you have on getting a favorable draw to the later rounds. I also am happy with Ford's blitzkrieg onto the recruiting trail. It maybe just Crews fatigue but it seems like Ford is omnipresent.

There is still that nagging feeling that we just won't be able to get it done with Ford, again a feeling that is familiar to blues fans. Hopefully Travis and the Blues will quickly prove my fears unfounded....

[SShoe]

This is not an article. It is a "list"icle designed to generate clicks for the website. The SportingNews is not relevant anymore in today's media.

The listicle doesn't give any kind of criteria for ranking best vs worst. There is a vague reference to amusement park rides and getting fans hopes up only to "fall back down to Earth" when the hire is announced. Therefore, you have to assume the rankings are supposed to be based somewhat on the fan reaction or expectations which would be based on the current state of the program and program history.

The rankings, however, do not bear that out. Because SLU's program under Crews became abysmal and SLU not being in a major conference doesn't have the same prestige or possibly money as some of the other schools listed.

There seem to be 3 main knocks on Ford in the article: mediocre record, poor NCAA tournament performance, and declining attendance at OSU

Mediocre Record?:

Ford is knocked mostly for his overall coaching record being slightly above .500 (278 - 222, .552. However, this doesn't take into account that before OK State he often took over very poor programs before turning things around. Therefore, the first year or three he had poor records through little fault of his own. For example his first 3 years at EKU plus his first year at UMass his record was 38 - 71. If you lop those years off his winning % jumps to a more respectable .614.

More importantly let's look at the career (DI) winning % of some other A10 coaches:

Bob McKillop - Davidson - .621 - This is boosted by years of winning in the mediocre Southern Conference. Before Davidson joined the A-10 his conference winning % was .735 with his OOC winning % was below .500. In fairness, Davidson has done well in the A10 the past 2 years as well.

Archie Miller - Dayton - .676 Very good coach, unfortunately, it is probably a matter of time before moves on. Record also speaks to the state of Dayton's program as a solidly good program, but not really elite.

Jim Ferry - Davidson - .472

Jeff Neubauer - Fordham - .581 - mostly from his long tenure at EKU (Ohio Valley Conf)

Mike Longergan - GW - .618 - boosted by his time at Vermont (American East)

John Giannini - LaSalle - .504

Dan Hurley - Rhode Island - .538

Chris Mooney - Richmond - .559

Mark Schmidt - St. Bona - .502

Phil Martelli - St. Joes - .596

Derek Kellogg - UMass - .541

Will Wade - VCU - .644 Only 3 years, 1 at VCU, 2 at Chattanooga (Southern Conf).

With the exception of Archie Miller and possibly Martelli (too early for Wade), I would argue that Ford's winning percentage / career resume is more impressive than any other coach in the A10. Most of them padded their winning percentages coaching at the low major level for a long stretch and none have ever coached in a "major" conference.

SLU's overall winning % for the history of the program is .540, so Ford is actually an improvement over that figure.

Poor Performance in NCAAs?

There is also a swipe at Ford for early exits in the NCAAs. Which is valid and the main beef some folks on this board have. Let's look closer at Ford's NCAA history:

2005 w EKU - lost as a #15 to #2 Kentucky by a score of 72-64. An 8 point loss by a #15 seed is actually fairly decent. I'd argue this team achieved slightly better than expected.

2009 w OK St - won as #8 vs #9 Tenn 77-75. Lost in round of 32 to #1 Pitt 84-76. Again I'd argue this team achieved slightly better than expected.

2010 w OK St - lost as #7 to #10 Georgia Tech 64 - 59. No shame in losing as a #7 to the #10 seed in a close game. Slightly worse than expected.

2013 w OK St - lost as a #5 to #12 Oregon 68 -55. SLU fans know a thing or two about this (under seeded) Oregon team as it would trounce #4 SLU in the next round and give #1 Louisville (eventual champ) a tough game. Worse than expected, but not as bad as it looks on paper given how well Oregon played in that tournament.

2014 w OK St - lost as a #9 to #8 Gonzaga 85-77. No shame in losing as the #9 seed.

2015 w OK St - lost as a #9 to #8 Oregon - 79-73. No shame in losing as the #9 seed.

Overall a very poor record (1 - 6), but not as bad compared to expectations. I'd expect his teams to have won maybe 3 or 4 games vs 1. However, most of the games were toss ups and they lost by a small margin. His team performing below expectations record wise could very well just be bad luck in a small sample of games. I'd argue they were never big favorites in any of these games. Also note that Ford did take UMass as a #2 seed in the NIT to the title game, so it is not like he has never had any postseason success.

Ford took over at EKU for the 2000-2001 season and his teams have made 7 NCAA tournaments winning 1 game. SLU has made the NCAAs 3 times since then and won 3 games.

Declining Attendance?:

Finally, Ford is knocked for declining attendace at OSU games. I'd argue the only way he controls this is by winning games and he did win a fair amount at OSU. Marketing and ticket sales people also influence attendance so a decline is not all on Ford. However, he probably deserves some of the blame as he was unable to win at the level of Eddie Sutton. Look at this article on OSU attendance (http://www.pistolsfiringblog.com/oklahoma-state-posts-worst-basketball-attendance-since-gia-expanded/). I'm not interested in the words in the article as much as the graphs and figures. Ford's attendance decline can be explained by the fact that Sutton took OSU to it's peak (Final Four then Sweet 16) shortly before retiring and Ford took over (following two mediocre Sean Sutton years) as that Final Four glow was wearing off. The article also mentions that OSU underwent a major arena rennovation / expansion in 2000. Ford took over in 2008, so the novelty of a "new" area had also worn off by the time Ford took over. Ford also had the misfortune of taking over at OSU the same year that the SuperSonics moved to OKC and became the Thunder. Stillwater is an hour drive from OKC, so a majority of its fan base had a different (better?) basketball option during Ford's tenure. As the Thunder got better OSU's basketball attendance only got worse. You'll also notice that the overall NCAA attendance is also declining. You can hardly blame Ford for college basketball declining in popularity overall.

Given the extremely poor attendance at Chaifetz last year, I'd be shocked if it somehow declines further under Ford and I expect an uptick.

TLDR: The "article" is not very well thought out and the knocks against Ford are not that bad when you consider the circumstances. I think he was a reasonable good hire for SLU.

Good post.

[slufan13]

Most Oklahoma St fans will tell you they should have been better than a 7-9 seed all of those years and therefore shouldn't have had such toss-up first round matchups.

I do however think Ford will be a fine hire. Not the guy who leads us all where we want to be, but certainly an upgrade over the Jim Crews disaster and will hopefully turn us into a consistent 20+ win team making the tourney 40-50% of the time once he has an entire roster of his own players.

[ACE]

The Sporting News ranked the best and worst coaching hires of this offseason. Not to spoil it, but we didn't fare well. Hopefully Travis will get the team back to the tournament in a couple of years and they will be forced to eat crow.

Drew and Stallings topped my wish list, but there is nobody on that list that is a sure thing in their new job. Underwood was very impressive and looks like a good hire, but who knows how he performs when he steps up in competition. Today's rising young hot shot coach can quickly become a "has been." Same thing about Drew. I would have liked Stallings, respect his X's and O's, but as the article points out questions his recruiting and he's not exactly Mr. Sunshine in terms of selling a program. Beard, I know what he did in his one year was very impressive, but not sure why he is hyped so much without a very long track record. Pastner... no thanks. Never understood the hype.

Ford's not the best coach on that list, but he could turn out to be one of the best fits for THIS job - previous experience in the A-10, the East Coast recruiting strategy. The guy from Bosie State for example might be a better coach, but may not have been a better fit here. Like many I have some questions about X's and O's, but I will have a more informed opinion after following his team closely now. If Ford can land one of his old OSU transfers, he will have already turned over nearly 1/3 of the roster in a short period of time. I have been impressed so far. Not drinking the kool aid yet, but I think there are reasons to be cautiously optimistic.

BTW, wonder when we will hear about the third assistant - maybe he has been working the recruiting trail as some have suggested.

[Pistol]

Plus, that list is incomplete. There were about 50 other D-I hires this year. I'm not sure how grading the most notable 13 is a valuable exercise.

And how long will it be before online publications stop using slideshows as a format?! Absurd. No wonder The Sporting News is vanishing.

[Box and Won]

And how long will it be before online publications stop using slideshows as a format?!

I don't know, but YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE CAST OF BOY MEETS WORLD LOOKS LIKE TODAY!!!!

[TheChosenOne]

I don't know, but YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE CAST OF BOY MEETS WORLD LOOKS LIKE TODAY!!!!

How does Topanga look these days?

[Pistol]

I don't know, but YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT THE CAST OF BOY MEETS WORLD LOOKS LIKE TODAY!!!!

30 Celebrities That Have Not Aged Well - #22 WILL SHOCK YOU!!!

[billikenbill]

Good post.

+1

[Quality Is Job 1]

Maybe I should use such click-bait marketing material to promote my stock photography business. Can't be any worse than the sound of crickets I've been getting thus far trying to operate with integrity.

NAH.

[The Wiz]

This Sporting News list is a Travis-ty...sorry , I couldn't resist. But puns aside I think it is poorly done.

So I came up with my own list....First to compare the grades they gave (based on who knows what) to my grades (based on team performance and mixed in with conference performance...weighting more heavily on team performance, I then gave an overall grade. Finally I compared my grades to the SN grades.

Second and more importantly, I looked at the new conference each coach was going to be playing in vs their overall grade as this is a good predicator as to how the new coaches may fare in their new venues.

Coaches......Old School/Gr.....Old Conf.....Overall Grade...SN grade........SN grade vs Wiz gr

Underwood.....SFA..A-...... ....F....................C.......................A......................Way over rated

Dixon...............Pitt...A...... .....A+..................A.......................A......................Even

Drew...............Valpo..A-..... ..C+..................B.......................A.......................Over rated

Beard..............UALR..B...........C...................B-......................A........................Way over rated

Smith...............TTU...B+..........A+.................A-......................A-.......................Even

Haase...............UAB..B-..........C-..................C+....................A-.........................Way over rated

Pikiel................StyBrk..B.........F+..................C.....................B+.........................Way over rated

Menzies............NMSU..B-.......D....................C.....................B-..........................Over rated

Stallings...........Vandy...A........A-....................A.....................C...........................Way under rated

Pastner.............Mem...B+........B+...................B+...................C-.........................Way under rated

Dunleavy..........NBA...............................................................C...........................N/A

Dawkins............Stnfrd..B..........A....................B+...................C-..........................Way under rated

Ford..................OKSt...B..........A+...................B+...................C-..........................Way under rated

The higher rated SN coaches seem to be over rated with the exception of Dixon and Smith. The lower rated coaches are all under rated.

In the next chart we match up the new competition/conf with my overall grade. Even means the new coach should do well. Over matched means the new coach will have to step it up to be successful.. And way over matched means the coach will probably struggle.

Coach....................Overall Wiz grade..............New Conf ..............Matchup

Underwood....................C.....................................A+......................Way over matched

Dixon.............................A.....................................A+.......................Even

Drew...............................B....................................A-........................Over matched

Beard.............................B-...................................A+........................Way over matched

Smith..............................A-...................................B+........................Even

Haase.............................C+..................................A..........................Way over matched

Pikiel...............................C....................................A..........................Way over matched

Menzies..........................C....................................B...........................Over matched

Stallings..........................A....................................A+.........................Even

Pastner...........................B+...................................A+.........................Over matched

Dunleavy..............................................................................................N/A

Dawkins..........................B+...................................B+.........................Even

Ford................................B+...................................B+.........................Even

The SN article ends with the snide remark ...How is this hire supposed to improve the program, exactly? Perhaps the author needs to actual examine our program. He would realize our program has improved dramatically in the last few weeks and Ford hasn't yet stepped onto the court.

Ah, but don't take my word for it....Let's go to the experts...after all who am I to question the experts. In the link below you will see the best and worst hires of 2013 complete with grades. Yes, you guessed it ...our beloved Coach Crews comes in tied for First place with an A-. Ya gotta love it.

These lists are a Travis-ty

http://www.google.com/url?url=http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--grading-2013-college-basketball-coach-hirings-and-taking-a-look-at-who-s-on-hot-seat-194152276.html&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwi44MDDi-LMAhUCyj4KHST-BAcQFggoMAM&usg=AFQjCNEYk5W58UlaEFcqe1FfSB2cfDyCRA

[Old guy]

Wiz, Travis-ty or not what the published list means is that any moron given a large amount of historical data can come up with some kind of ranking of sorts that he can publish and gain some traction from. The only thing that is real about these is real BS. The same applies to the list than ranks Crews as A-.

[HoosierPal]

Maybe I should use such click-bait marketing material to promote my stock photography business. Can't be any worse than the sound of crickets I've been getting thus far trying to operate with integrity.

NAH.

Livestock? You take pictures of cows? Cool.