3star_recruit Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yeah, who are these shooters that are going to carry us to new heights and save Jimmy's job? Practically every guard/wing Crews has offered in the 2016 and 2017 classes recently has been a 40%+ 3PT 75%+ FT shooter. Overreliance on a couple of shooters has been a perennial problem going back decades. High time this program had 3-4 of them. I'm still taking bets on ppg for the current squad. We averaged 59 ppg last year. I've set the over/under at 63 ppg, even with Welmer out of the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChosenOne Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 So you are talking about kids we have offered in the 2016 and 2017 classes (and I assume the kid we have committed for 2016, so that makes one player who will definitely be a Billiken)? These kids would only be freshmen and sophomores assuming Crews remains the head coach through the end of his contract, correct? So you do expect Crews to make it to the end of his contract and if those are the players you expect Crews to have success with, does that mean you expect him to sign an extension with SLU? Based on your knowledge of the players we are recruiting seemingly before/if it is reported anywhere online (and there is not much recruiting info online concerning the Billikens at this point) and your confidence in the coaching staff, what is your connection to the program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Torch. Appreciate the names. I took them and did a little digging and found the following: Coach Age Salary Current School Rick Byrd 62 $709,101 Belmont Gary Waters 64 $340,000 Cleveland State Fran O'Hanlon 67 $313,087 Lafayette College Dan Monson 53 $325,297 Long Beach State Scott Sutton 45 $115,870 Oral Roberts Eddie Payne 59 $146,000 USC Upstate Scott Ney 49 $152,000 South Dakota State Steve Hawkins 53 $310,000 Western Michigan Mike Young 52 $161,043 Wofford I think if Chaifetz made some calls and offered Byrd 1.5 we could get him to come here and coach till he's 70. Waters and O'Hanlon have had success but are probably too old. Monson intrigues me but I think he wants to be a west coast guy. I think Scott Sutton stays at Oral Roberts just to keep the stink of his dad and his brother off of him. Nagy is youngish and for some reason has lost out on jobs at Ball St and Bradley recently. I'd take a flyer on him though. Payne, Hawkins, and Young have all had some success and been HCs for a while. Hawkins in particuliar intrigues me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I don't care to weigh in too much on the coaching discussion beyond saying that it is the athletic directors job to identify candidates who could be a good fit at SLU, selling those candidates on why SLU is an attractive opportunity for them, and ultimately hiring the best candidate. SLU plays in a conference just outside of the power six conferences, has quality facilities, and is a quality University located in the middle of the country. I don't buy into the discussion that we can't find a good basketball coach, that is the job of the athletic director and he has a solid package to sell. To the extent he cannot make quality hires, then we need a new athletic director. Couldn't have put it any better. There's no reason we can't hire a great up-and-coming coach. In addition to the fit-related factors mentioned in the quoted text, here's a not-so-secret tip: coaches go where they get paid. We want a good coach? Pay him. We have the ability to pay 7 figures for the right candidate. We've done it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Couldn't have put it any better. There's no reason we can't hire a great up-and-coming coach. In addition to the fit-related factors mentioned in the quoted text, here's a not-so-secret tip: coaches go where they get paid. We want a good coach? Pay him. We have the ability to pay 7 figures for the right candidate. We've done it before. Plus there is the extra money earned from 6 NCAA credits flowing in for the next few years that wasn't available when we hired Majerus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Torch. Appreciate the names. I took them and did a little digging and found the following: Coach Age Salary Current School Rick Byrd 62 $709,101 Belmont Gary Waters 64 $340,000 Cleveland State Fran O'Hanlon 67 $313,087 Lafayette College Dan Monson 53 $325,297 Long Beach State Scott Sutton 45 $115,870 Oral Roberts Eddie Payne 59 $146,000 USC Upstate Scott Ney 49 $152,000 South Dakota State Steve Hawkins 53 $310,000 Western Michigan Mike Young 52 $161,043 Wofford That salary list shows that the SLU job is a pretty good one in the grand scheme of D1 basketball and good enough to attract a solid coach. If we want to sell ourselves as the next Gonzaga, Dan Monson would make a lot of sense. He's done a nice job at Long Beach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwayne's_World Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 So if we have a sub .500 record then Crews is as good as gone? Do we have to buy out the rest of his contract if we choose to overhaul the coaching staff? One thing is for sure, this is a make or break year for crews. We could be seeing some big changes next April.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clock_Tower Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 That salary list shows that the SLU job is a pretty good one in the grand scheme of D1 basketball and good enough to attract a solid coach. If we want to sell ourselves as the next Gonzaga, Dan Monson would make a lot of sense. He's done a nice job at Long Beach. Possibly. Actually, the interesting thing about Torch's list which I noticed when put the data together is that several of the older coaches were quoted following the announcement of their latest salary announcements/hirings was that this would be their last coaching stop. Frankly, I don't put much stock into the arguments that every older coach is somehow "out of touch" with the modern player and that "the game has passed them by" but age does make a difference to guys in their 60's. Personally, I prefer a better known, successful former D1 head coach rather than the next up and coming assistant coach. Spoon was a great hire but the attraction to SLU back then was the Great Midwest/Conf USA which was superior to the current A10. That just means that we might have to dip down below the Valley to find a willing head coach. And as to the money, yes, it is important and yes, $1 million plus is ALOT more than these guys are making, but these older coaches start preferring non-financial things as much or more than they do the financial pay. RM, for one, was more concerned about the environment around him (beginning with full control over the team/program to assistant coaches' pay to strength & condition coaches to tutors to travel). IMO, that was more of a problem for SLU during the Fr. Biondi era than the head coach's salary and hopefully things are even better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I wonder what our assistants make. A coach wants to be able to put together his own staff and not lose guys for higher paying jobs right away. If Crews flops as head coach, I wonder if the AD/prez will be willing to pay another $850k/year for a new coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I wonder what our assistants make. A coach wants to be able to put together his own staff and not lose guys for higher paying jobs right away. If Crews flops as head coach, I wonder if the AD/prez will be willing to pay another $850k/year for a new coach. I think two questions will weigh into that decision. First, how much of Crews salary is guaranteed? Second, how much of the tab for the next coach are high roller donors willing to pay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The year before Monson arrived, Long Beach went 24-8 and went to the tournament. The year he took over they went 6-25. It took him four years to get Long Beach over 20 wins again. One bad season followed by incremental improvement doesn't make you a lousy coach, whether you're in California or Missouri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Agreed on your second paragraph. I was specifically saying that no rational poster on here was going to suggest Gregg Marshall when he's already at a much superior program with a couple billionaires backing him. I'm not even talking about just the Marshall's of the world. If the coach of Northern Iowa, or Bradley, or Illinois State has a big year and is getting buzz about trading up, that guy is going to be looking for offers at BCS schools and would not consider switching over the SLU. I wish we were that level of program, but we are not currently. Based upon past experience, posters on this board will start throwing around names that we will not be able to get and expect that our nice facilities will erase the last two years of bad records and being in the A-10. The topic of this thread is about replacing JC. My only point is that if we are ever considering replacing JC, that we should be realistic about who we could get to replace him. It should be par of the decision making process when deciding whether JC stays or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm not even talking about just the Marshall's of the world. If the coach of Northern Iowa, or Bradley, or Illinois State has a big year and is getting buzz about trading up, that guy is going to be looking for offers at BCS schools and would not consider switching over the SLU. I wish we were that level of program, but we are not currently. Based upon past experience, posters on this board will start throwing around names that we will not be able to get and expect that our nice facilities will erase the last two years of bad records and being in the A-10. The topic of this thread is about replacing JC. My only point is that if we are ever considering replacing JC, that we should be realistic about who we could get to replace him. It should be par of the decision making process when deciding whether JC stays or not. I think that most people are pretty realistic when this topic comes up. It's easy now to say RM was a realistic coaching target, but at the time, there were quite a few people on this board who thought there was NO WAY Majerus would take the job. You never know. Don't sell ourselves short. While we're not a blue blood program, RM proved you can earn Top 25 rankings here and get Top 5 seeds in the NCAA Tournament. While it is not as easy here as at some blue blood programs, it can be done. There are a LOT of D1 programs where earning Top 25 rankings is next to impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm not even talking about just the Marshall's of the world. If the coach of Northern Iowa, or Bradley, or Illinois State has a big year and is getting buzz about trading up, that guy is going to be looking for offers at BCS schools and would not consider switching over the SLU. I wish we were that level of program, but we are not currently. Based upon past experience, posters on this board will start throwing around names that we will not be able to get and expect that our nice facilities will erase the last two years of bad records and being in the A-10. The topic of this thread is about replacing JC. My only point is that if we are ever considering replacing JC, that we should be realistic about who we could get to replace him. It should be par of the decision making process when deciding whether JC stays or not. Jacobsen's name was brought up in the past and multiple people shot it down as pie in the sky thinking. I think you really are overestimating who most regular posters on this board think are reasonable targets. Now on to Wardle and Muller..... If the SLU job would have opened up after this past season, both would have took the job in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think that most people are pretty realistic when this topic comes up. It's easy now to say RM was a realistic coaching target, but at the time, there were quite a few people on this board who thought there was NO WAY Majerus would take the job. You never know. Don't sell ourselves short. While we're not a blue blood program, RM proved you can earn Top 25 rankings here and get Top 5 seeds in the NCAA Tournament. While it is not as easy here as at some blue blood programs, it can be done. There are a LOT of D1 programs where earning Top 25 rankings is next to impossible. You have to at least try on reach like Majerus next time. Should the job open up, my long odds candidate would be Bryce Drew. Throw a good amount of money at him and offer to substantially increase the pay for the assistants. He will probably say no thanks, but at least you took a shot. It doesn't hurt to take a shot and you can move on quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 -three months from today we play our 11th game of the season, we'll see what kind of improvement has been made from one SIU to the next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The topic of this thread is about replacing JC. My only point is that if we are ever considering replacing JC, that we should be realistic about who we could get to replace him. It should be par of the decision making process when deciding whether JC stays or not. It bugs me to see how prevalent such a defeatist attitude is here lately. For as bad as I think the current team and staff are, there's no reason this program can't be better. Maybe that's why I'm so quick to share how bad I think this team is (least talented roster in my fanhood, which dates back to the early-mid 1990s). I don't know why so many of you think that coaches don't want to come to SLU. I'm not sure why "be realistic" has to be negative. How about this for "be realistic" - we can get a lot of good coaches to come here because of all the factors TheChosenOne outlined on the previous page - great facilities, good school, big market, fertile recruiting region, one of the best situations outside the BCS conferences, low pressure for the level of competition, etc. - and because we can pay someone. Who wouldn't take a promotion with that line of selling points? I feel like people are acting like this job is cursed or something. It hasn't traditionally been a successful jumping-off point, with a few exceptions, but this is truly a program that a good coach can mold into whatever he wants. There's no reason we couldn't hire a great coach and there's no reason said coach would turn it down, barring a better offer. Enough of the defeatest attitude. This fan base needs to stop settling. Demand better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The year before Monson arrived, Long Beach went 24-8 and went to the tournament. The year he took over they went 6-25. It took him four years to get Long Beach over 20 wins again. One bad season followed by incremental improvement doesn't make you a lousy coach, whether you're in California or Missouri. No one thought we'd make the Tournament again after losing five seniors, especially those five seniors. But no one thought we'd be as bad as we were last season. I'd be a lot more patient with Crews if I saw more in the sophomore class or on the recruiting trail. Our horizon for returning to the Tournament looks awfully distant to me. Four years to build a program is fair. I just don't think we're there in four with this squad or these coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It took a genius high rep coach like Majerus 4 years to get us dancing. Although, it probably would have happened in year 3 if the situation had not arose. If Crews falters this year and, this is the the big IF, the admin decides to make a change, it will take his replacement a minimum of 3 years to get us back to respectability. If indeed this team comes up wanting this season, 90% of it will be due to we just plain don't have the horses to compete at a high level. Any new coach worth his salt would recognize this, as did Majerus when he succeeded Brad, and have to rebuild totally from the ground up. He won't even have a foundation of KL and TL to begin with, and as bad as Romar left us, at least he left Brad with a few tools in his kit. Right now any new coach likely would deem only 3-4 of the current roster as being able to compete in the A10, but, of course, that depends on how they perform this year. Right now, it seems the majority of us have low expectations for this group, but if that many do prove themselves, this whole post will be moot as that would ensure Crews stays. A new SLU coach won't have the luxury of a Calipari to load up the team with 10 Mickey D All Star Frosh to put on the floor his first year. Hopefully, he'll come with a couple of decent recruits in his back pocket. Maybe even a transfer or two to play in year 2, and maybe land us a couple of respectable JUCOS. That might speed up the process, but not enough to be dancing in by the 18-19 season. It's just a shame we couldn't have built on the solid foundation that was came to fruition in the 11-12 season and continued the following two years. Blame who you want, but it just doesn't make any sense to have fallen this far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 No one thought we'd make the Tournament again after losing five seniors, especially those five seniors. But no one thought we'd be as bad as we were last season. I'd be a lot more patient with Crews if I saw more in the sophomore class or on the recruiting trail. Our horizon for returning to the Tournament looks awfully distant to me. Four years to build a program is fair. I just don't think we're there in four with this squad or these coaches. No one thought Monson would be 6-25 the season after Long Beach went 24-8 either. happens. Unless a coach is running a dirty program, he deserves one mulligan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 No one thought Monson would be 6-25 the season after Long Beach went 24-8 either. ###### happens. Unless a coach is running a dirty program, he deserves one mulligan. So we agree that Crews should be held accountable if this season also has a "mulligan" record? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Monson was offered the Washington job before Romar. He initially accepted the offer, then later declined it. Probably should've kept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB73 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The year before Monson arrived, Long Beach went 24-8 and went to the tournament. The year he took over they went 6-25. It took him four years to get Long Beach over 20 wins again. The same handful of loons that want a guy like Monson here, NOW, would have wanted Monson fired after his first year at Long Beach. Crew's first recruits were the freshmen from last year, it was a tough situation for many reasons, he deserves to run the show at least two more years before you throw your fits. How about the genius on here who already knows the talent (4: 3*'s and 2: 2*'s) of last year's freshmen is sub par. And do not forget how many on this board were calling for Majerus's scalp after his first year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The same handful of loons that want a guy like Monson here, NOW, would have wanted Monson fired after his first year at Long Beach. Crew's first recruits were the freshmen from last year, it was a tough situation for many reasons, he deserves to run the show at least two more years before you throw your fits. How about the genius on here who already knows the talent (4: 3*'s and 2: 2*'s) of last year's freshmen is sub par. And do not forget how many on this board were calling for Majerus's scalp after his first year... Who was calling for Majerus's scalp after his first season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 God I wish the season would start, so we actually have something to talk about besides the pissing contests of who can be more astute/negative..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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