JC Hot Seat

[kshoe]

Some of us have our reasons for not signing up for the board sooner. Doesn't mean we don't remember what was going on during the Romar-Soderberg years or earlier. Quite the contrary.

Yeah, let's see what happens this year. I'm looking forward to it, even though I don't think it'll be pretty.

But honestly, what do you think is going to happen? What kind of season would justify hanging on to Crews, and what kind of season would justify his firing?

I think we are going to win around 17 games next season plus or minus a couple.

Those with a negative disposition will continue the same arguments that the schedule is weak, we shouldn't be getting only 17 wins, Crews doesn't put people on the FT line, recruiting stinks, etc.

Those with a positive outlook will point to the major improvement and that except for Ash the entire team is returning. They will predict a push for the NCAA tourney in 2016-17.

Then we can settle in for another 7 months of off-season discussion about whether Crews should get a modest contract extension...

[majerus mojo]

Those with a negative disposition will continue the same arguments that the schedule is weak, we shouldn't be getting only 17 wins, Crews doesn't put people on the FT line, recruiting stinks, etc.

Those with a positive outlook will point to the major improvement and that except for Ash the entire team is returning. They will predict a push for the NCAA tourney in 2016-17.

These blanket dispositions ... Our schedule isn't great. There will be irksome coaching decisions, but at the end of the year, the positive outlook should also be there, if not this discussion is over. It'll be a complete failure if we're not back in the NCAAs in '16-17.

Sure, we could make the tournament leap after winning 15 games this season.. but you'd feel a lot better about our chances if we won closer to that 18 number

[majerus mojo]

Actually, our non-conference slate is pretty good compared to years past. I'm still down on the rest of the A-10. We got housed by some pretty awful teams

[slufanskip]

The major difference is that RM's track record showed that he was probably the greatest player developer who ever lived and Crews has never shown any sign that he is even average in that department.

Quite a few players did not develop under RM. I get your point though. This year should be an important season for JC.

[JettFlight5]

Actually, our non-conference slate is pretty good compared to years past. I'm still down on the rest of the A-10. We got housed by some pretty awful teams

The A-10 was really bad last year. That is why some of the losses were so galling.

3 bids after 6 and 5 is a pretty big fall. The implosions here and at St. Joe's had something to do with that.

[Clock_Tower]

What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5.

Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday.

Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up.

Shoe.

Alot has changed, at least for me, since the Sodie days. First, and most importantly, Fr. Biondi is gone and we have a guy who (from a distance) appears to be a fan of college sports in general and men's basketball in particular. Second, we no longer have a stalled new arena project with an AD spending her days selling $500 bricks while the newspaper mocks the new development. Third, we are now in Chaifetz and finally have the facilities, first class on-campus venue which draws the students, etc. Fourth, we no longer have a padlock on Assistant Coaches' salaries, trainers, etc. Fifth, we have enjoyed success and have seen that success/NCAA Tourneys and Top 20 basketball is possible even here at SLU.

Now, with the budget given to Cheryl Levick and Sodie, with the crappy facilities/West Pine Gym, games at Savvis/Scottrade and after the conference demotion from Conference USA to the old A10, I do think that we could have done worse than with Brad. Did Brad have his limitations? Of course he did. And on a related note, I still don't believe that Cheryl Levick was such a great fan of Brad as much as she did believe that he was doing a decent job (and therefore she supported him) under the Fr. Biondi constraints. And IMO, had Fr. Biondi gone to CL (instead of by-passing her and embarrassing her in front of her home town friends/family) and told her that Dr. C was now on board, told her that her budgets would increase triple, told her that charter flights, well paid assistant coaches and strength and conditioning coaches are now possible and that we would be making a big financial push to land RM, CL would have been the first to push Brad out the door, land RM and take the credit.

[Clock_Tower]

Mitigated with depth, but far from over. I don't think Neufeld is as game-ready as has been said on here. I think he'll be a good four-year big but any production from him this year will be a bonus. Manning-to-Neufeld might be a neutral change in the short term.

This also assumes a conventional 1-2-3-4-5 lineup; Neufeld and Gillmann are the only listed centers on the team, but I'd expect to see a lot of different lineups, especially early in the season. I'm not as concerned with production from a particular position as overall production.

Pistol.

In fairness to Neufeld, it is only August and I believe comparisons might now be made based upon our glimpses of prior Freshmen -- usually at the end of October -- as compared to Neufeld in the Bahamas in early August -- big difference. School just started a few days ago. I sure believe all the kids (especially the Frosh) will make a large leap from early August to early November -- and other leap by January 1st. And yes, it is always a bonus to receive production from a Freshman big but the few glimpses we have seen regarding Neufeld appear to be more positive to me than they appear to you. Is the center position fixed? No. But comparisons to JM are also not fair.

[3star_recruit]

Mitigated with depth, but far from over. I don't think Neufeld is as game-ready as has been said on here. I think he'll be a good four-year big but any production from him this year will be a bonus. Manning-to-Neufeld might be a neutral change in the short term.

This also assumes a conventional 1-2-3-4-5 lineup; Neufeld and Gillmann are the only listed centers on the team, but I'd expect to see a lot of different lineups, especially early in the season. I'm not as concerned with production from a particular position as overall production.

Then put aside Neufeld for a moment. We averaged a mere 59.8 ppg last year. We only had three players average over 3 rpg last year. We only had one player average double figures in points last year. Do you think those trends will continue?

I believe a summer of weight training has narrowed the physical gap between us and most of the teams we play. I also believe that once we level the playing field physically, we've got a better basketball coach than whoever is coaching George Mason, Duquesne or LaSalle this season. UMass, a middle of the pack team last year, suffered a major talent drain this offseason. Fordham could have taken a step forward this year but their best player transferred. We're going to move up in the standings. The question is how high?

[Pistol]

Then put aside Neufeld for a moment. We averaged a mere 59.8 ppg last year. We only had three players average over 3 rpg last year. We only had one player average double figures in points last year. Do you think those trends will continue?

I believe a summer of weight training has narrowed the physical gap between us and most of the teams we play. I also believe that once we level the playing field physically, we've got a better basketball coach than whoever is coaching George Mason, Duquesne or LaSalle this season. UMass, a middle of the pack team last year, suffered a major talent drain this offseason. Fordham could have taken a step forward this year but their best player transferred. We're going to move up in the standings. The question is how high?

It's not unreasonable to think those trends may continue. We're implementing a new offense, which will come with an adjustment period. We still don't have a clearly established rotation. We still have a very thin frontcourt; not in terms of overall depth, but literally in terms of the physical frames of the players.

So we may average about the same number of points per game, we may still be spread out in terms of point distribution, and may struggle to rebound. Will the numbers be as bad? I sure hope not, but I don't think they'll be very far off.

The thing about "a summer of weight training" is that the other programs in our league also have weight rooms and strength & conditioning coaches. And from what I saw of the other young teams in the A10, our players were (mostly) thin by comparison and therefore had a longer way to go than many opponents. How is this an advantage?

[3star_recruit]

It's not unreasonable to think those trends may continue. We're implementing a new offense, which will come with an adjustment period. We still don't have a clearly established rotation. We still have a very thin frontcourt; not in terms of overall depth, but literally in terms of the physical frames of the players.

So we may average about the same number of points per game, we may still be spread out in terms of point distribution, and may struggle to rebound. Will the numbers be as bad? I sure hope not, but I don't think they'll be very far off.

The thing about "a summer of weight training" is that the other programs in our league also have weight rooms and strength & conditioning coaches. And from what I saw of the other young teams in the A10, our players were (mostly) thin by comparison and therefore had a longer way to go than many opponents. How is this an advantage?

There comes a time when adding weight ceases to be an advantage in basketball. The key is to be strong enough to compete, not for all your guards to be built like Ash. Our 6'4 165lb point guard wasn't strong enough to compete last year. Neither was our 6'2 170lb combo guard who does most of his scoring going to the basket. Neither was our 6'10 210lb center.

Last I checked, most point guards in our league, even after 4 years of weight training, are not over 190lb and most 5 men don't weigh over 235lb. We'll at least be big enough to compete.

It sounds like you're saying we'll average a little over 60ppg this season. How about we put the over/under at 63? If the Bills average over 63, you'll have to use a sig line of my choosing in all your offseason posts in 2016. If they average under 63, I have to use your preferred sig line in my offseason posts. Bet?

[David King]

Soderberg is a better coach AND recruiter than Crews. Just think how good we would be doing now if Sodie had inherited the team from Majerus, instead of Crews.

[cheeseman]

Justin Johnson originally committed to K St. and had a Big East offer from Rutgers. Adam Knollmeyer had an offer from Purdue at one time. Relphorde had power conference offers. The F'er from Minnesota had major conference offers. Luke Meyer had an offer from Nebraska. Even Obi had major conference offers at one time. Reggie Bryant was a transfer, but was a big time recruit.

I believe Knollmeyer had committed to Missouri first and then Missouri took it back.

[cheeseman]

This also goes back to the definition of what is actually an offer or how valid any of those offers are. Some schools have 30 offers out for 4 spots. But that's a different discussion. If you're going to use other offers to gauge how good a current player is, your argument is going to be disproven just as quickly as you can prove it yourself.

What I saw last year is a team full of role players. Roby is the most well-rounded. Yarbrough and Yacoubou have talent but talent alone doesn't win in college. You have to be able to be coached and your coach has to be able to coach. Crawford and Bartley may be focal points this year but they both seem like perfect guys to be role players on a good team. Not your better players on a bad team.

Actually, I think Bartley has a good upside - I will not be surprised to see him to be more consistent this year. I don't disagree about Roby and MY.

[cheeseman]

I share your concern that we may have a collection of role players. We really need a couple of players to step up and separate from the pack. MY and DR are the two best candidates. JJ and DE were able to evolve from good role players early in their careers to core players you could build around. Do we have any players in last year's freshman class capable of making that transition?

Anybody who saw DE and Jett as freshmen knew they were not going to be role players.

[SLU_Nick]

There comes a time when adding weight ceases to be an advantage in basketball. The key is to be strong enough to compete, not for all your guards to be built like Ash. Our 6'4 165lb point guard wasn't strong enough to compete last year. Neither was our 6'2 170lb combo guard who does most of his scoring going to the basket. Neither was our 6'10 210lb center.

Last I checked, most point guards in our league, even after 4 years of weight training, are not over 190lb and most 5 men don't weigh over 235lb. We'll at least be big enough to compete.

It sounds like you're saying we'll average a little over 60ppg this season. How about we put the over/under at 63? If the Bills average over 63, you'll have to use a sig line of my choosing in all your offseason posts in 2016. If they average under 63, I have to use your preferred sig line in my offseason posts. Bet?

As an independant observer, I would like to propose a change to this. I think it needs to be off of overall point differential on this season. Playing uptempo and losing a whole bunch of games 79-64 shouldnt win you the bet.

[cheeseman]

What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5.

Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday.

Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up.

I think what has changed is that we had 3 years of success - with Sodie we had the miracle in Memphis in Romar's first year and then nothing else. Seeing what a very good team and roster looks like opens people's eyes and raises expectations. I am not advocating firing Crews right now - but I think he has to have a short leash. I also was one who did not think he was the right hire but what is done is done. I hope for the best but I am not drinking any kooliad either.

[cheeseman]

Soderberg is a better coach AND recruiter than Crews. Just think how good we would be doing now if Sodie had inherited the team from Majerus, instead of Crews.

I am not sure how I am suppose to feel after reading this - if true then maybe we should all just head to the bridge and join hands for the big splash.

[Old guy]

As an independant observer, I would like to propose a change to this. I think it needs to be off of overall point differential on this season. Playing uptempo and losing a whole bunch of games 79-64 shouldnt win you the bet.

Well, this is interesting and reflects the status of the financial markets. What better way to deal with things than to change the standards that you use to evaluate performance? As standards proliferate each one emphasizing a different aspect of the performance issue being measured, things become so confusing to the general public that they just cannot deal with it and must place their trust on the "experts". The "experts" are unfortunately the talking heads of the media which may know a lot less than the public about whatever it may be they are talking about (they just read it on the teleprompter or ask pointed questions to get whoever they are interviewing look stupid or incompetent or unsuitable for whatever...). Let's create impossible to achieve standards of performance, and then when they are not achieved lets scream demanding Crews termination. All very nice and tidy, all done to achieve the main aim of this exercise, which remains to get Crews fired. Why not, it is the way the country works, find a scapegoat and crucify him or her. Should I say this is all very "Trumpian"?

[davidnark]

I guess one reason I see things so differently than many on this board is because I look at Bartley and see the potential for a player we have rarely had in our program -- a tall guard with a tight handle who can pass it and really, really shoot it. Bartley is miles away from being a complete player, but the good news is that defense is the most teachable part of the game, and he will undoubtedly get a lot stronger over his career. As an underweight guard who had never competed at this level, I thought he showed a lot of promise.

In addition, we all witnessed Roby's progression over last season, and before Malik got tired legs, he showed dominance in a few early conference games.

I will stand by my position that these 3 recruits are at a whole different level than almost every Romar recruit and every Soderberg recruit outside of Lisch and Liddell. People knock Crews, but they forget the many years we routinely brought in players like Eric Jones, Ross Varner, Sekue, the kid from Edwardsville, etc.

I agree that Crews game-day coaching and preparation is still a big question mark, but I don't believe the talent is way down as many are suggesting.

[Tonka]

I am not sure how I am suppose to feel after reading this - if true then maybe we should all just head to the bridge and join hands for the big splash.

[ACE]

Shoe.

Alot has changed, at least for me, since the Sodie days. First, and most importantly, Fr. Biondi is gone and we have a guy who (from a distance) appears to be a fan of college sports in general and men's basketball in particular. Second, we no longer have a stalled new arena project with an AD spending her days selling $500 bricks while the newspaper mocks the new development. Third, we are now in Chaifetz and finally have the facilities, first class on-campus venue which draws the students, etc. Fourth, we no longer have a padlock on Assistant Coaches' salaries, trainers, etc. Fifth, we have enjoyed success and have seen that success/NCAA Tourneys and Top 20 basketball is possible even here at SLU.

Now, with the budget given to Cheryl Levick and Sodie, with the crappy facilities/West Pine Gym, games at Savvis/Scottrade and after the conference demotion from Conference USA to the old A10, I do think that we could have done worse than with Brad. Did Brad have his limitations? Of course he did. And on a related note, I still don't believe that Cheryl Levick was such a great fan of Brad as much as she did believe that he was doing a decent job (and therefore she supported him) under the Fr. Biondi constraints. And IMO, had Fr. Biondi gone to CL (instead of by-passing her and embarrassing her in front of her home town friends/family) and told her that Dr. C was now on board, told her that her budgets would increase triple, told her that charter flights, well paid assistant coaches and strength and conditioning coaches are now possible and that we would be making a big financial push to land RM, CL would have been the first to push Brad out the door, land RM and take the credit.

+1 I was going to make that point earlier. Levick strikes me as a smart lady. She was not going to fall on the sword for Sodie. Pick Sodie over RM? Ridiculous. What the insiders were saying at the time is that it was the horrible way Biondi handled the whole thing that upset her. If she simply would have been kept in the loop, she would have been on board.

[brianstl]

I guess one reason I see things so differently than many on this board is because I look at Bartley and see the potential for a player we have rarely had in our program -- a tall guard with a tight handle who can pass it and really, really shoot it. Bartley is miles away from being a complete player, but the good news is that defense is the most teachable part of the game, and he will undoubtedly get a lot stronger over his career. As an underweight guard who had never competed at this level, I thought he showed a lot of promise.

In addition, we all witnessed Roby's progression over last season, and before Malik got tired legs, he showed dominance in a few early conference games.

I will stand by my position that these 3 recruits are at a whole different level than almost every Romar recruit and every Soderberg recruit outside of Lisch and Liddell. People knock Crews, but they forget the many years we routinely brought in players like Eric Jones, Ross Varner, Sekue, the kid from Edwardsville, etc.

I agree that Crews game-day coaching and preparation is still a big question mark, but I don't believe the talent is way down as many are suggesting.

Reggie Agbeko had a better turnover percentage than Bartley last season.

[ACE]

What's ironic about this whole thing is that for those posters that have been around 10 years or longer, some of the first and loudest to jump off the Sodie bandwagon were Ace, Nark and myself during/after his third year which was a disaster. The rest of this board largely defended him until the NCAA dream bubble burst in year 5.

Flash forward to now, and we've got the same 3 basically saying "let's see what happens this year before declaring anything a disaster" and you've got a large majority of the board that wants him fired as of yesterday.

Recognizing that many current posters weren't around during the Sodie years, its hard for me to understand what has changed with some of the more long-termed posters to make them so quick to want to blow it all up.

I thought Sodie did a nice job with a mediocre roster Romar left him, but his own recruiting was very mediocre until landing KL and TL. Then when Sodie had 6 or 7 recruiting periods where he failed to surround TL and KL with a decent supporting cast, especially a good pg, it was obvious he had to go.

Regarding Crews, I'm kind of a centrist at this point. I thought he did an excellent job keeping things together following the passing of RM. Some are quick to dismiss it, but I think he did a nice job under difficult circumstances. A lesser coach could have screwed that up, but JC did a good job of staying the course.

I have had my doubts about JC being the long-term answer, so I get it. During JC's interim season, I was on here advocating/hoping that Doc Chaifetz and the money men would go out and try to get another big name to follow RM. But as the season came to a close, JC was named national coach of the year, I dropped the idea of getting a big name coach, realizing that there was no way SLU was going to get rid of the national coach of the year.

On the negative side, yes last year was going to be a rebuilding year, but it shouldn't have been that bad. And I think coming off of our run of success, that 6-man recruiting class should have been a bit more talented.

Back to the plus side, to JC's credit, the whole team didn't jump ship after a bad season, just a couple of bad apples left. The talented core to build on (MB, MY, DR) stayed together. Contrast that to SPUMAC, where two of their best players bailed after a bad year.

Looking at the schedule, 9-3 in non-conference and around .500 in conference play should be a realistic goal. IF we fall well short of that, the seat should get very hot. But if the team makes noticeable progress, the young players develop and the team is set up to be a NCAA Tourney contender in 2016-17, JC absolutely would deserve another year.

[cheeseman]

Reggie Agbeko had a better turnover percentage than Bartley last season.

Who played more minutes and who handled the ball more?

[willie]

I guess one reason I see things so differently than many on this board is because I look at Bartley and see the potential for a player we have rarely had in our program -- a tall guard with a tight handle who can pass it and really, really shoot it. Bartley is miles away from being a complete player, but the good news is that defense is the most teachable part of the game, and he will undoubtedly get a lot stronger over his career. As an underweight guard who had never competed at this level, I thought he showed a lot of promise.

In addition, we all witnessed Roby's progression over last season, and before Malik got tired legs, he showed dominance in a few early conference games.

I will stand by my position that these 3 recruits are at a whole different level than almost every Romar recruit and every Soderberg recruit outside of Lisch and Liddell. People knock Crews, but they forget the many years we routinely brought in players like Eric Jones, Ross Varner, Sekue, the kid from Edwardsville, etc.

I agree that Crews game-day coaching and preparation is still a big question mark, but I don't believe the talent is way down as many are suggesting.

I totally agree with this post. I also believe there are enough pieces to plug in around these 3. I know I am beating a dead horse but Crews has to find a rotation and stick with it.