Jump to content

early saturday rambling roy in all lower case, no initials, who couldn’t care less about spelling and grammar errors.


Recommended Posts

the billiken’s current roster is not good. i will refrain from giving my feelings on whose fault it is simply because i know the feelings of the board and for the most part i don’t agree with the board’s general feelings. The point is that what talent we have is mostly freshmen and our upperclassmen that should be leading this team and coming into their own is just not that good. i know a lot of this board thinks the freshmen show a lot of promise. i say that most do not and those that do, probably are not stars to build a team around. maybe yarborough. but the truth is he isn’t larry hughes or kevin lisch or even dwayne evans. there is a lot of inconsistency and fundamental error in his game yet. at this point in his freshman season I think he has a chance to be a solid #2 or #3 starter fro a good team in a couple/three years. but he alone is not a program maker at this point. granted the likes of evans, or roland gray or tommie liddell (all also good #2 or #3 starters on their respective billiken teams) had good billiken careers and at this point that is where I see yarborough heading. the good news is that can change and yes he can exceed expectations (see jordair jett)

roby came to slu imo with a low basketball IQ. a very good athlete with an advanced body for a freshmen. But he was making more mistakes than even a freshmen should. that said, he has progressed more than any player on the roster when you compare our first view in november till now. In the last month I think he has shown he belongs and can maybe turn into a very good defender and a good team player. I wish he was more of a playmaker as the biggest hole on the team is a point guard. wouldn’t it be great if he became josh fisher? at this point though he is not a point guard.

can yarborough and roby progress? absolutely. they may even turn into stars. but the real key is they need help. we need to have others come in that mirror their level of potential and honestly we need a star. Hopefully young mr tatum is that star.

i know a lot of you think gillmann and bartley are also worthy. maybe so. They have had moments that give me hope. But they have a lot of chinks in their armor. A lot more holes than Yarborough and roby have. gillmann gets thrown around every game. his body strength is not good and he cant defend the post in the atlantic 10 level of play. can he get stronger? Absolutely. but like rob loe that will be a long process. it took loe three years to arrive imo. Loe’s senior season was very good. but loe was extremely soft and weak the first three seasons. And honestly loe was further along than gillmann is now when loe was a freshman. So pardon me if I don’t assume gillmann will make us forget ian vouyoukas let alone rob loe just yet.

many think bartley is our point guard answer. while it would be nice if he turned into anfernee hardaway I tend to doubt it. he makes a lot of poor decisions. He probably uses a screen worse than any college guard I have ever seen. he really needs to go to basketball 101 more than just about anyone on the team. the good about bartley is that he has the tools plus you just have to love the physical length that he brings to the floor. What an advantage passing to be 6’5”. Alas, he just doesn’t get it yet. and it sure wouldn’t hurt if bartley joined gillmann in the weight room next year. yet he has given us moments of hope.

Now if we take these four and compare to our recently departed excellent graduating class of 2014, jett, evans, mccall and loe, which one was better at this point in their freshmen year? you may not think this is fair, but if our hope is returning to the ncaa tourney anytime soon, and this group is not as talented as that recently departed group, plus you don’t have rickma teaching, how successful will this likely turn out? the point is, they need help.

it seems to me that reynolds and jolly are mistakes. From all I have read they are very good kids and i have heard they are fantastic students. but i honestly don’t see them becoming billiken difference makers. that said, the fact they are both hard working and good students and likely good teammates, I hope they get their chance to be a part of the team. it is up to this staff to make them all they can be. as I have always contended, a coach brought them here, made promises to them and their families. now because that coach was wrong, it just isn’t right to throw them away and disrupt their lives and life plan? not right. not if the player wants to be at slu. now if the player in question has become miserable and wants to move on, so beit. or if the player is not doing their job as a student and a citizen, then I think a coach has every right to take the scholarship away. but if it is a matter they just dont seem to be good enough that scholoarship should be fulfilled.

the sophomores beyond crawford fall into the reynolds and jolly basket. i now see why we were forced to watch barnett be on the floor so much last year. crawford is the best of the lot, but he seems to be somewhat limited as well (he actually is on par maybe with a troy robertson. troy was a decent role player, but hardly a difference maker or starter worthy. he too had moments and a purpose, but spoon didnt build his team around him.) . now if there were better players around him, crawford might make more noise and be more effective. but most games because of our poor overall talent on the floor, even if crawford is beginning to have a good game it is too easy for our opponent to change their focus and then shut mike down. i think a lot of us hoped he would be kevin lisch or scott highmark. i just don’t think that is going to happen. hope I am wrong, but there is a gear missing that would allow that to happen. he is just not quite good enough.

i don’t even want to opine on lancona and agbeko beyond they will be juniors soon (see my transfer rant above). and mcbroom and youcoubou will soon be seniors.

as to crews, i was not a big crews fan when he first took over as the interim coach. acie loves to post my rant about crews at the beginning of that season crews took over. but crews had a great season that year and then followed that up with a followup great coaching performance last year. now that we have seen how good our sophomores, then freshmen were (or are not) i have even more respect for crews job as the head coach last year. so in hindsight, no doubt when he got the job he was the obvious and best choice. had we not made him the head coach it would have been a public relations disaster and might have cost us coach opportunities down the road for treating him as such after such a fine interim season. we had to make him the head coach, and he did a great job with that finely tuned roster that rickma had given him.

that said, i am not too sure what kind of a teacher he is. sure he did fine directing a ready roster. but now we need a coaching staff that will teach and develop. personally i am not seeing it. the rotations and the way the minutes are doled out from game to game are confusing. the players (beyond roby) don’t seem to be improving and the effort and results every game are very inconsistent. too often we play keep away for 30 seconds and then somebody goes one on one or we hoist up a 25 footer. that isn’t an offense. i understand we as fans have to be patient, and a lot of this inconsistency is about our best players primarily being freshmen, but my gosh, thing have to start showing better signs and more consistency soon. Not this one good game, two horrible games stuff we are now seeing. it is somewhat confusing as well since we really don’t have a point guard. the question that begs an answer, “ why did we recruit two more inside guys for next season when we dont have a good point guard?” hopefully this question isn’t answered with "because our inside guys were worse than our guards."

i doubt seriously that crews is going anywhere soon. i think he is here as long as he wants to be here and i assume that means at least through a legitimate crack of seeing young mr tatum in blue and white. so the answer imo is to find at least one better assistant coach if not two that might be more versed in teaching the youngsters. have i mentioned that justin tatum has a great track record as a high school and aau coach? talk to you all next week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 80
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Roy, I think you seriously underrate the upside of the freshmen, especially the top 3-4. In particular, Yarborough and Roby have stud written all over them, but yes they are raw. I saw it real early with Roby, who is beginning to remind me more and more of a young Charlie Bell type (maybe just a little smaller). Roby can be much better than Josh, who I liked a lot. Yarborough is the big surprise and I don't think we know his ceiling yet. But he is already above Evans, in terms of offense, when both were a freshman. He is sneaky quick and great around the rim, just still figuring out D1. He will improve, if his head is in the right place. Bartley and Roby will become seriously difficult to guard, once they develop their outside shots.

As far as "difference makers": did you identify Jett as one, in January of his freshman year? if you did , you must be the only one on here. I do think we will shake up the roster a bit, but frankly most teams only have 2-3 difference makers at a time, plus a bunch of good, solid, role-type players taking turns making a difference in different games. Our team last year basically had 2 (JJ & DE) I would identify as consistent difference makers. How many do you need??

The GMU game turned ugly fast, and I turned it off about 8 minutes into the 2nd half. Just sick of the pain, at this point. But the upside is lookin' pretty good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valid points Roy, however a lot depends on how the players develop for the rest of the season and next year. I think it is possible that a number of our freshmen will develop beyond your expectations. I think it is too early to say at this time. I also think RA has made definite progress and may become more of a significant player in the future, I think the same about MC. I agree a number of the freshmen need to bulk up a fair amount and I will hold any comments on them until they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say the core group for next year, made up of MY, DR, MB, AG, MC, AM, and AY, is not as bad as Broy intimates. Still, a really legit 4 would be a nice addition. Some thought, RA arrived after the VCU game. A rush to judgment in my opinion. He has to bring that level of play to every game. He didn't against GM, so we're still left with a hole at the 4. TL had his opportunities, but shown us zilch. I don't think JC will run off either of them, but would not be surprised if TL opts out for a smaller program. There were moments last year, he showed some promise. Where that went this season is a mystery. Not sure he's a D1 player.

Broy is right on about development. Development is the key factor for the large majority of D1 programs. You only have so many 5 stars and they all flock to the you know whos. We saw great development with the players of RM's two best classes. And now our future success depends upon the development of JC's two classes. Only time will tell if this group shows similar progress. I do think the talent level is there to match last year's seniors. Different styles, yes, but the 4 core FR have shown us some positives that can be built upon. I include AY and AM in the core, because they're not going anywhere and will be counted on next year to be contributors. Dance ready next year? Highly doubtful as we've got a real hole at the 4, and I don't know how he'll fill it unless JC lands a stud JUCO 4 this spring. Of course, that's assuming one or two of our current players decide to transfer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair points all. The only issue I take with the above posts is "underrate the upside of the freshmen." Only because that comes down to "how's the fine tuning on your crystal ball?" And only time can tell who will be right in the outcome.

I like the comparison of Crawford to Robertson, it makes sense. I did Yarbrough to Evans/Jeff Harris and I will say I think he is offensively ahead of Dewey as freshmen. He has slasher potential/jump shooter; Dwayne never really got that far. Roby reminds me of Virgil Cobbin some. Bartley lookslike, with weight, he could indeed be a Jeff Fisher/Charlie Newberry type.

Gillmann and Jolly look more Chris Braun than Rob Loe now but they are freshmen. Reynolds looks more like Ramon Trice/Anthony Jones/Corey Frazier --- unfulfilled promise. Lancona looks more like the next Dick Missavage/Dale Renken/Ross Varner. Agbeko is striving to be the next Corey Remekun but looks more like Va'shun Newborne and I want him to be Shevon Thompson.

The best news is there is time for all to figure it out ...... and/or move on.

@old guy --- I think you, and a lot of us, including me, keep hoping on that Agbeko expectation you have. Paint me doubtful. Reggie looked great (at home) against the playground style of VCU. The problem is only VCU plays that style. We need more and there was nothing at Mason. Umass will be an interesting test. We should need him what with Lalanne, Esho and Coleman coming this afternoon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. You can't really crush someone's opinion of young players who are not producing much on a bad team (the kids beyond Milik) since nobody knows what they will become (some will exceed expectations while others won't). Milik looks like a great get, but I have not seen enough to know what his ceiling is or who we could reasonably compare him to beyond knowing I really like the kid and think he will be really good. I personally like Roby (met him in CoMo at a bar after the Vandy football game and was a really nice kid), but think he may be closer to his ceiling then most freshmen, but a good piece for sure going forward. Having not seen these kids in practice it is really hard to know beyond Milik and Roby how good these kids are and it is really difficult to know how much potential they have or how they will develop from just watching the games. This is probably where you can easiest tell who among us our optimists or pessimists. We saw Jett, Evans, McCall, and Loe play and produce on a bad team as freshmen and saw what they became and we have seen other guys throughout Billiken history show some promise early in their careers and not improve much (Lancona showed some signs last year). It is really hard to know, but at least these kids are showing promise beyond Reynolds and Jolly (also played a prep year). If we only had a crystal ball we would now what these freshmen will become. Regardless probably too early for me to tell as Old guy said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Crawford is better than Troy Robertson"

Agreed. His foot speed and offensive skill is closer to Drake Diener than Troy Robertson. Frankly, I think he's the 2nd offensive best offensive player on the team behind Yarbrough. The kids who are starting ahead of him are better rebounders and better defenders. And since SLU isn't going to outgun anybody this season, I understand why he's not a starter. If we can land Christian Williams, he and Crawford are going to make Ash and Robys' lives hell in practice. Players with strong offense against players with strong defense. Competition is a good thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone find the thread from after the GW 20 pt game or any of the poor games when the McCall, Jett. Evans ... etc were frosh? How about a link to some of those to refresh our memories on what was thought of that class at times during their freshman season

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a little harsh, roy. this freshman class can be as good as the famed group that just graduated, it is too early to say otherwise. the first 2 months of this season was spring training with essentially a whole new roster to work with... painful but necessary.

i agree the current problem is the upperclassmen, but crawford (like him!) and mcbroom have contributed and if used more wisely can be factors, youcoubou can help if he becomes more disciplined, and agbeko can be a player... vs. george mason he got 7 minutes, no shots taken, not time to give up on this big yet.

the team still needs to jell, it shows some signs here and there but, bottom line, it is too early to panic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Crawford is better than Troy Robertson"

Agreed. His foot speed and offensive skill is closer to Drake Diener than Troy Robertson. Frankly, I think he's the 2nd offensive best offensive player on the team behind Yarbrough. The kids who are starting ahead of him are better rebounders and better defenders. And since SLU isn't going to outgun anybody this season, I understand why he's not a starter. If we can land Christian Williams, he and Crawford are going to make Ash and Robys' lives hell in practice. Players with strong offense against players with strong defense. Competition is a good thing.

Christian Williams??? Who is that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doc B's probably our best inside source these days, so let's use the openings wisely. Hopefully, an athletic 4 that's serviceable, ala Remekun. Yeah, we'd like better, but let's be realistic, we are SLU and highly rated 4s avoid us like the plague. Another PG would be good, but I'd really prefer a sniper, a consistent +40% guy. That type of player is a game changer as it opens up options for the offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and agbeko can be a player... vs. george mason he got 7 minutes, no shots taken, not time to give up on this big yet.

I think people may be overreacting to Reggie's game against VCU. Have those who are high on him seen him in practice or heard promising things from coaches or players? He played a solid game in limited minutes scoring on his 3 attempts where he probably was not even listed on the scouting report. So he flashed in one game at this point, a sign of more to come or an isolated bright spot? Ryan Rosburg flashed the other night against Kentucky, but I am comfortable in saying that based on his other games that he is not good. I kind of feel the same way with Reggie, but am willing to give him a little more time as he is still young and has not played a whole lot in his time at SLU (possibly newer to the sport too?). To me he looks pretty bad and had one nice moment, but I could be wrong. He may just be raw and need time. I just don't see it, but that is why these discussions are fun. One group will end up being right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me he looks pretty bad and had one nice moment, but I could be wrong. He may just be raw and need time. I just don't see it, but that is why these discussions are fun. One group will end up being right.

Well he isn't going to get better playing against a defensively-challenged Lancona everyday, especially if the the rumor is correct, and Tanner is on his way out. Really hard for TL to put up a good fight when his spirit is broken. It's up to Reggie to put in the work to get better this summer. Now if Reggie's another one of the rumored transfers, I hope the staff has a juco power forward target lined up. Does Barry Eberhardt have any eligibility left?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Overall I agree with most of ROY's evaluations of the freshmen, but I guess I have a glass half full attitude while ROY has a glass half empty perspective.

I'm sold on Yarbrough and Roby.

The success of this class (and thus the program) really boils down to whether Gillmann and Bartley can turn those flashes into consistent output while also getting significantly bigger/stronger over the next two seasons.

Reynolds needs to show something and his window is closing.

Jolly is no star, but he has value.

Agbeko has ceased being the human turnover and played himself back into the rotation, but he still has a long way to go. Don't write him off yet.

Crawford knows how to exploit openings but doesn't create openings. Part of the solution, but he's got a ceiling.

Lancona's window is closing faster than anyone else. Badly needs to rediscover his perimeter shot.

Ash was oversold both offensively and defensively. Useful player, but makes 2 or 3 SMH mistakes a game. Needs to learn to dish when he goes to the rim.

McBroom is what he is. I like him off the bench.

I think Crews should to be thoroughly evaluated at the end of the season, but not now. At least 12 games still to play.

I'm going to frame this

i know a lot of this board thinks the freshmen show a lot of promise. i say that most do not and those that do, probably are not stars to build a team around. maybe yarborough. but the truth is he isn’t larry hughes or kevin lisch or even dwayne evans.

and put it up next to

i personally think kyle does have nba potential. he has size, he is a smart player, he plays wonderful defense and now he is showing he also has offensive skills. i dont think he is a future nba star, but i think if his game continues to progress he might get a shot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone find the thread from after the GW 20 pt game or any of the poor games when the McCall, Jett. Evans ... etc were frosh? How about a link to some of those to refresh our memories on what was thought of that class at times during their freshman season

http://www.billikens.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20159

My favorite thread from the 10-11 season. Jett is called "Dwayne Polk with rasta dreds."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...